I've seen this a few times in recent days. When people complain about soldiers who die in combat, there's always someone who chimes in with "there's no draft, they're all volunteers, they knew what they were getting in to."
People in the military sign up for many reasons (patriotism top among them, but also for the benefits and opportunities they can receive). One thing they DO expect from their leaders is to not have their lives thrown away.
They want to protect their country. Not participate in a "grudge match." Not assist in corporate imperialism. Their sacrifices are to be honored, not treated as disposable assets. Their lives should be spent with caution, concern, and in sober reflection on the costs involved.
Instead, we get invasions like Iraq, and a plethora of other useless wars going back through the centuries (from BOTH Republican AND Democratic presidents). Once our soldiers' blood has been spilled, it's hard to recognize the pointless cost, as we are forced to sanctify their loss.
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| "Our soldiers are volunteers, so they have no right to complain if..." |
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dizzydoll
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Sep 8 @ 1:20AM
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sad but true my friend 
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MrPaul
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Sep 8 @ 1:47AM
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So true a kudo for you and prayers for those who serve and have given all    
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CHARLIgurl1
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Sep 8 @ 5:39AM
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(from BOTH Republican AND Democratic presidents)
Hey! we agree on something!!
The shock is too exhausting tho.. I think I may have to lay down lol
Ill even give you a KUDO!!!!!!!!!!!
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yashaenka
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Sep 8 @ 9:34AM
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According to some sources we have been in 250 conflicts, police actions and wars since the 1700's. The only reason we have an all volunteer Army is because of what transpired in Vietnam and how politicians allowed deferments from serving for such people as Bill Clinton, college students and other politically connect sons and daughters.
At first the educational requirements were very low for volunteers, then they raised and we ended up with a more educated volunteer Army but since this government was stupid enough to enter a two front war they have had to reduce the educational requirements and now there seems to be a lot of our volunteers that are not American citizens as yet.
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ttomtarr
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Sep 8 @ 10:59AM
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I remember hearing a newscast saying that the battle casualties were moderate to light.
Would your dead brother, friend, or son be a moderate loss or light loss?
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legacy1
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Sep 8 @ 1:21PM
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Great blog Napa!
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xFuryx
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Dec 6 @ 5:03PM
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"People in the military sign up for many reasons (patriotism top among them, but also for the benefits and opportunities they can receive). One thing they DO expect from their leaders is to not have their lives thrown away"
Again- Not true. Most people in the military (enlisted) join not because they are patriotic or have an undying love of their Country or Nation; more because they come from under-privileged low-income families, and they want to do something with their lives. Its amazing how many people think Military members do what they do out of admiration for this Country, when most of them detest it.
Like I said in your other blog, I'm in the Military, I am a War Veteran (sad to say- that doesn't really mean anything any more), and I have the distinct privilege of training these so called 'Patriots' and trying to shape them into some sort of disciplined mass; which becomes more and more difficult with each passing day; if a child doesn't respect his parents, what makes you think he will respect anything else?
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 6 @ 7:35PM
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Patriotism is high among them. Having a friend who just finished basic for her entry into the Reserves, I know that of her training group (don't know the size of the group), many people got washed out, and at least two ended up dying. There are safer ways to earn money, especially with the knowledge that there are two wars currently ongoing and they could be shipped off to the front once they complete their training.
I'm not saying that patriotism is the only motive. There are plenty of reasons, not least among them the opportunity to get GI Bill money (which isn't as common as the adverts seem to imply, sadly...). But discounting patriotism seems a bit naive.
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xFuryx
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Dec 6 @ 11:46PM
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I've been in the Military since before the second Invasion of Iraq in 2003, and I can promise you, while it might have been a reason to sign the papers at the beginning of the war, its not the case anymore. More people enlist to flee from an unsavory income or more often unemployment than anything.
How did 2 people die in basic? You also mentioned that she was a Female? People that go overseas do their job, if they are Infantry than you can bet money that they will see the front line, if thats not what they want, well, then they should have either a. Walked out of the recruiters office, or b. scored higher on the ASVAB.
I'm sorry if I sound overly opinionated, I'm just really tired of people that watch CNN or MSNBC and think they are war-time experts on the situation in the middle east. Want to know what its like, sign a paper, go through training, and wait for a deployment rotation (which are getting rarer these days).
Sitting in the US in safety, and watching someone else's take on the day to day events in Iraq, is like asking a Farmer to perform open heart surgery. Unless you've seen it, you don't know.
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 6 @ 11:54PM
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My friend was (and I won't get the terms correct...) formerly a weapons expert (i.e., operated the squad-level weapon?). With her nursing aide skills, she's currently enrolled in the medics. And she's going to be getting training at the Monterey school for languages, learning Farsi. (Which means I'm REALLY hoping that we don't go to war with Iran...)
She's a very patriotic person, who also realizes that she can get sign-up benefits (e.g., if she sticks in for her term, she'll get a nice down payment on the house she wants to buy) and further on she'll get an accelerated training in nursing (to get a better job making three to five times what she makes now). So call it "patriotism-plus-pragmatism."
Patriotism alone doesn't fill the ranks of our alliance commitments and global interests, hence the wide range of benefits offered to enrollees...
Apparently, one woman just dropped dead in the mess hall. I think the other one died in the endurance training. The stress those kids are put under is very high.
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shyflygemini
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Dec 7 @ 12:45AM
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If you dont mind I would like to jump in...as I have said in some of my past blogs and comments elsewhere I worked civil service for 26 yrs (10 AF, 7 NAV, 9.5 at HQ USMEPCOM which is all services but Army paid me). During my years at MEPCOM my last 6 years I worked in the Human Resources Directorate, which had several divisions, one of them being Military Personnel and another being Congressionals. When someone submits a complaint to their Congressman no matter what state they come from, it went to their Congressman and then came to our office for the actual guts for the Congressman. I reviewed many, many complaints you name it and there has most likely been a complaint made about it. I have to agree with Fury when he says today many of the applicants and actual servicemen and women do sign up to escape their circumstances (gangs, drugs, no jobs, no benefits, abusive families, no gurantee or way to afford college etc).
When the wars first started (and I don't know if it's still going on now) many of the teens and 20 somethings joined with the purpose of serving their country and out of many of their mouths came the gimme my M16 I'm gonna kill Saddam, kill Bin Laden, hell the recruiters could have been using those very words to recruit them (the boys for sure, you know boys and their toys).
Boot Camp is hell, it either makes or breaks you and in the era of war...for what is far more harsher situations to be in. I like to think though if they survive boot they graduate with pride in their chest and patriotism for our great country in their hearts and respect in their minds. God Bless the USA   and all our servicemen and women, past, present and future .
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ragtopcookie
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Dec 7 @ 4:51AM
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Im an American citizen.....i was born and raised here.....father of two......never been in the military....but i will defend this country with my last breath to ensure that my kids get the same chance that i did to live a productive life......i just wont do it for our government .....in another land.......in a conflict i believe is wrong......started and maintained by the war machine......freedom....and the fight for it.....starts at home.....we need to take care of our own.......ive always believed that if those that start war.....had to fight it......im sure it wouldnt last long.....if fought at all.....i am not willing to give my childrens lifes for somebodies ideas of whats right and wrong.....and if anybody wants to try and test this father....let them come forward and try......ill lay my life on the line for what i believe in.....not what others think i should......cookie
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shyflygemini
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Dec 7 @ 8:00AM
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You were born an American coooookie monster  . I agree we need to devote far more resources, time, finances, etc., to taking care of our own, I have said that for years. The very elite rich are most always highly charitable, both in the US and other countries....but what do we see them on tv, hear them on the radio, mags, newspapers etc., most for.........the causes overseas in other countries, from AIDS, to orphanages, schools, medical, better drinking water, youu name it, we can find a celebrity involved in it...but we don't see it often enough here. I know it exists here, it just seems less media coverage given. One particular area I have noticed rising the past 2 years is the promotion to donate to your local food banks and also the fight against obesity (across the board from kids to grandparents).
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xFuryx
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Dec 8 @ 10:01AM
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I have a hard time believing a Female was EVER put as a 'Weapons Expert" in the Reserves, which in my opinion is the most undisciplined mass ever put together.
Carrying a M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) by no means makes you an expert or even a primary gunner, she was chosen to fill a slot, troop to task and all that. (more often than not, a new soldier, assigned to a unit, that has to carry a SAW is usually a method to counteract either a. Laziness, b. Lack of Motivation, or c. a disciplinary action) Lugging around a 20 pound weapon with ammo is noone's favorite task.
The likelihood of a Female Medic (Outside of Special Forces, which isn't available to Females anyway) actually seeing combat outside of a hospital, is rare. I'm not saying it isn't entirely possible, but just the likelihood of such events happening are slim.
I'd also like to say, that I think you have a friend who just joined the Miiltary, that is telling 'gung ho training stories'. Anyone prior service knows exactly what I'm talking about.
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 8 @ 11:09AM
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Nope. She definitely was part of the active-duty Army. The Army even was considering reactivating her a few years before. She only went back into the Reserves because she wanted to buy a house, and the sign-up bonus would be a large chunk of the down payment.
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cbond35
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Dec 8 @ 12:00PM
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Nope. She definitely was part of the active-duty Army. The Army even was considering reactivating her a few years before. She only went back into the Reserves because she wanted to buy a house, and the sign-up bonus would be a large chunk of the down payment.
Why would she need to go back to get the sign-up bonus for a house? Military members can get VA Home loans.
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 8 @ 12:25PM
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The fact that she doesn't have to pay back the sign-up bonus, maybe? Given the cost of houses back in Napa, that bonus could equal close to one-eighth of the price of the house.
Then she'll have her training to be a full nurse (trained through the military's system, rather than the civilian system), instead of a home health aide. Given how impacted the nursing schools are around Napa, you have to get all the prerequisites done before you can even sign up to be on the waiting list.
So a better-paying job (at LEAST three times what she's making now...), plus the added income of being reserve, and a nice chunk of change to put a down-payment on her dream house. And a better life for her and her kids.
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cbond35
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Dec 8 @ 1:23PM
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The fact that she doesn't have to pay back the sign-up bonus, maybe?
I was just asking............I was under the impression that she didn't want to go back into the Reserves, so I gave some info.
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 8 @ 1:29PM
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Ah... No, she wanted to go back in. She had been working her way up to nursing school, and she sees the military as her way of getting the degree without all the hoopla required in civilian education.
I'll pass on the information about home loans, though. A subsidized loan would be good for her, I think.
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cbond35
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Dec 8 @ 2:18PM
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Ok..This is why I got that impression:
She only went back into the Reserves because she wanted to buy a house
she sees the military as her way of getting the degree without all the hoopla required in civilian education
She went back in to get the money for a house or to get the degree?
And just so you know, many of the certifications that medics receive in the military are not honored in the civilian world. I worked 3 years in the ER and almost 3 years in the ICU while in the Navy. My CPR and EMT certifications were the only things recognized when I got out.
HM2 Bond 8404 FMF
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SweetNapaGuy
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Dec 8 @ 2:36PM
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She wants both. 
She wants the bonus and the extra money from being a reservist (and probably active duty and deployment pay). And there are apparently (?) degrees that are offered to the military that are pared-down from what's offered in the civilian world (e.g., less "General Education" fluff).
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