What is it that started my exploration of this topic? Certainly it has not been a fun topic for me. I doubt it is even all that fun to read.
I have insulated myself from face-to-face or body-to-body contact with people for some time now. Oh, I've met people for coffee or drinks or at a gathering in California or out of town, but I have always on some level made sure there was some barrier to physical contact -- not insurmountable if real desire had been there, but something that rationally prevented sexual intimacy.
I am at a place where I want to remove barriers to relationship. I have discovered the source of my previous fear of commitment. I have grieved the loss of family. I am now ready to share my life with a man.
I like people. And I like sex. And when I am really enjoying being with a man, there is a desire to merge mentally, spiritually and physically. But, one cannot do that too often before one is considered promiscuous or a whore. And, in my parents' religion, one does not do it at all outside of marriage without being considered a sinner. Of course, those considerations are only as important as I value them -- which is really not much. I take that back. It matters not to me what society or a church thinks of me, but any box into which I am placed by someone with whom I have merged so completely, matters tremendously.
On the one hand is a powerful physical drive -- which can be exerted casually -- and on the other is a desire to be valued and to give value -- about which there is nothing casual.
There is a part of me that would just like to be a sport f***ing athlete. There is the other part that recognizes that when two people become one -- which is what sex really is -- that there is more than just an exchange of bodily fluids -- and that “more” happens every time, no matter how much one would claim otherwise. There is an underlying spiritual factor -- a statement about how one values oneself and how one values the other person. In that expressing of value, there is more than giving good or bad or mediocre or marginal physical feelings to oneself and ones partner. There are the emotional feelings with which you and your partner are left.
A thoughtful and considerate lover does not merely ensure that his or her partner has a wonderful orgasm. (Partner can generally do that on his/her own.) A thoughtful and considerate lover adds to that by determining how the partner feels valued and then giving that as well – but only if it does not diminish (devalue) giver.
For example, if I only feel valued by large shiny rocks, but they impoverish you, you will not be a really thoughtful and considerable lover for me (unless and until you have educated me on other ways to feel valued.) If I value myself only when I am following the religious education given me by my parents, you will be a thoughtful and considerate lover only when we are married and you have no living ex-wife.
As stated in my previous blog, I value myself when I am expressing who I am. Therefore a thoughtful and considerate lover for me, would be one who knew that in sexual intimacy, I was expressing who I am. I would expect that might take a little time to discover (particularly since I have many facets.)
I had drinks recently with a very nice looking, very interesting, much younger single man. We talked of many things, including sex. I was surprised when I asked him if sex belonged only in marriage and he said yes. I had a very nice time with this man and had that desire to merge physically. I even suggested it – but it did not happen. How unfair, unloving, selfish, stupid and immoral of me to suggest something that would have left him and me with guilt – him for violating a belief, me for creating the opportunity for that.
Many women, and perhaps men as well on some level, find sex without love immoral. A corollary of that is that if you love, it should be expressed in sex. Supposedly there is a chemical released in women during sex which instills feelings of love, and more than one man (non-lovers, all) has told me that a man only feels loved when there is a physical expression. ie. Sex makes a woman feel loving and a man feel loved.
I emailed the section above to redtigr to get some feedback on it. I wanted an opinion from her as to whether I really had anything to say and as to whether I was opening myself up too much -- although I am not really sure I put my request to her in those terms. I added the following.
That's as far as I got. Perhaps it is that most of my sexual encounters did not involve love that makes it depressing for me now. I was actually surprised after my first sexual experience that I did not feel guilty. Depression has set in I think when I actually had a relationship or someone about whom I wanted to care and from whom I desired love. Well, damn, got quite a hit off typing that.
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| Sexual morality -- Part 5 |
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null_geodesic

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Oct 6 @ 10:06AM
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Many different ideas and themes going on here, but I would like to comment on two of them.
Perhaps you should explore why you feel that sex without love may be immoral. You did a lot of good inquiring here, but unless I read too fast, you took that idea as an axiom. Making one uncomfortable is different from being immoral.
How unfair, unloving, selfish, stupid and immoral of me to suggest something that would have left him and me with guilt I sincerely hope this was sarcasm, but sadly, I get the feeling it is not.
The second idea I wanted to comment on is "love". You know, many people think that love is like a saturated BJT n-type transistor. Sorry. Engineering geek humor there. Let me start over.
The second idea I wanted to comment on is "love". You know, many people think that love is either present or absent. You're either "in love" or you're not "in love". I recently had this conversation with a girlfriend who didn't want me to use the word "love", so I invented another term -- I told her I was "in like with her". But really, why should love be a switch? Off -- on. True -- false. When every other emotion or feeling can have varying degrees, why would being "in love" be any different?
I submit that being in love is a matter of degree. Perhaps you can even love someone "in the moment".
If you've agreed with what I said, then alot of the guilt of having sex with someone who isn't Prince Charming (or in my case, Princess Charming) evaporates into thin air. Morality wouldn't enter into the equation. It would just ... "be".
Nice blog, btw.
Null!
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lacyvsq

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Oct 6 @ 10:55AM
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I almost did not include this section in my series as it is incomplete and I was still trying to determine where I was going. I felt it was necessary though to get to the next section -- and I needed for the next section to be number 6 to match up with my love series.
I want to address null's comment and questions:
Perhaps you should explore why you feel that sex without love may be immoral. I don't -- and never have. The hypothesis is widespread that women cannot orgasm or enjoy sex without love, and I have heard it expressed by friends of mine who appeared to me to manufacture that feeling to deny raw desire and to salve guilt. And along with with that feeling/idea seems to come some belief that the love/sex must continue for some time or it was not genuine -- which feeds into your second question.
I am here to say that not all women need to have an ongoing love relationship to orgasm or enjoy sex. If that makes me an exception, well, I have always known I was exceptional -- along with redtigr and upbeat for starters...
I think your point about loving in the moment is well taken. I think that we do loving actions to another person by leaving them with good feelings. My falling "in love a bit" with people who stimulate me intellectually or emotionally or physically is a response to their giving me good feelings about myself and about them. Expanding and continuing those feelings is an act of love. Creating and encouraging a desire I know will not be fulfilled for myself or another is perhaps hot a loving act. Implying that there is much more to a relationship than I am willing to give is also not a loving act.
Sometimes those unloving acts are done unintentionally, or in a state of confusion or defensively or as a result of "bad programming". In those cases a good measure of loving forgiveness may be required to recreated good feelings.
I do think it is immoral to knowingly act in a manner to leave myself or another person feeling bad.
Thanks for the questions.
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atleco

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Oct 15 @ 8:02AM
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just to start,I think we as people are put here on this earth to be fruitful and multiply ,and sure i agree w/ what you are saying as far as the sex and marriage goes but there is also that part of men and women that needs that intamacy,thtat love, that caressing,its is just a part of life ,some people get love and sex mixed up you can love a person w/ all your heart and still be physically attracted to someone else ,so does that mean you are not in love w/ the other person?NO! you can have sex with a person and not love them,its when you involve the good feeling that you are getting from the physical to predict your mantalfeelings in which a lot of women ( and men ) tend to do.so lets seperate the situations,is it love or lust?
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