I am open-minded about most things - "live and let live," "Land of the free" and all that good stuff, but don't talk to me about flag burning being "Freedom of Speech"
At least, I guess that would be my daughter's advice.
How we even got on this conversation, I am not sure. I will say in her defense that she does say that she thinks it is wrong, it is her "but," that I have a problem with. "But, it is considered freedom of speech." she told me. Unfortunately, even those who should know better have made that ruling.
At one point, I told her that I could not believe that I raised a child who lacked patriotism in her country and the American Flag. I didn't say this in a mean fashion, just matter of fact - she maintains that she is patriotic, just not in the same way I am (that also is when her explanation came in above this paragraph)
It is to me a symbol of who we are, what we are, everything this country stands for and is about. Even thinking about it just makes me so angry and breaks my heart at the same time. I love this country but I am so saddened by some of the things we are allowing to happen here.
Another example, I am not what one would consider a religious person but I think the idea of taking "In God we Trust" off money is turning away from our heritage - our American heritage and what our country was built on. Prayer in the school? Hey there is a choice, pray or enjoy a few moments of silence. And these changes go even and suggested changes go even further with our flag, why is the Pledge of Allegience no longer the "in" thing, the morning ceremony, the start of class?
What is your goal here? That's what I want to ask those who come up with this crap. To take out nation down completely? To take all that we stand for, all that people have died for, suffered for?
That flag, the one that some people think is no more than a piece of cloth or a means to make a statement is not just my heart, it is the heart of this country. It is the humble beginning of dreams, it honors those who have fought and/or died for this country, those who serve her and each of us. It is our history, our beginning and our present. It is America.
So I say, enjoy your freedom of speech. Have your demonstrations, write your words, give your opinion, have your say. These are your rights of speech, you may not have earned them yourself but you can bet someone did. And it's a pretty good guess to say that they did it under the waving of that flag. If not physically, then in their hearts.
We have so many things to be grateful for in this country, so many freedoms including the ability to express ourselves and have a say, I just find it disgraceful to destroy that which waves for that freedom.
Of course, you have the right to disagree, to tear me apart for even suggesting that flag burining should be illegal. That is your right, your freedom. As my daughter told me I am open-minded, flexible about many things. Even those things I may not agree with, I can usually at least see another point-of view. But for the flag, I will not, cannot bend.
I love my country, I respect my flag and I am thankful everyday of my life for those who have defended this country and continue to do so. In this flag, I see each of them, their honor, their belief in this country and their committment to be there when their country calls no matter what. Call it what you will, but when I see that flag blowing in the breeze I am reminded of all of this and filled once more with the pride of America.
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Sheryll861
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Mar 13 @ 4:27PM
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Me too.
I could watch our flag raised a hundred times a day and each and every time, I would get that same thrill and sense of pride.
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helen77
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Mar 13 @ 4:41PM
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i love our country  but think our government sucks  and it is my right to feel that way  you are very right and even though i don't support some of the ways the wars were handled  i do support our troops  as it is not their fault the people in charge are screwed up we shouldn't disgrace the flag because it does represent the lives of those lost and forever changed that fought for us to be able to say whatever we want  if we can't atleast respect them then we don't deserve respect ourselves 
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acslim
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Mar 13 @ 4:49PM
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i think if people want to burn flags well its their right, but we should be allowed the freedom to beat them up for it
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Mission_Impossible139
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Mar 13 @ 4:52PM
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test
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kecksie
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Mar 13 @ 4:53PM
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The topic raised here is not one usually that can be raised or discussed in a calm, rational manner. More often than not, whether or not you agree with any stand on this issue is an emotional one and thus a matter of personal opinion. It is no longer a question of law, as the Supreme Court decided in 1989 that the right to burn a flag is an element of political expression, and the right of political expression falls squarely under the provisions guaranteed each of us in the First Amendment to our Constitution, which specifically protects the right of free speech. Thus, your daughter is correct--she is patriotic in her own way because she is standing behind those patriotic rights guaranteed when our country was founded, which includes the ability to participate in political protest by burning a flag if one so chooses.
The flag is a representation of our country, but the true symbols of our heritage are those rights expressed in the Bill of Rights and how we exhibit them around the world. You cannot be patriotic in words alone--that is, you cannot support the Constitution (a better symbol of our country than anything else) in the interests of patriotism and then call someone unpatriotic for exercising those specific rights within the Constitution that you happen to disagree with. If you want to respect what this country stands for, then respect the right of your daughter (or any other American) to dissent and express opinions that differ radically from your own; you do not have to agree with them, but you should afford them the same deference as they would accord you.
As for as the Pledge of Allegiance, it is nothing more than a loyalty oath to a political government--a similar sort of oath that people object to when swearing fealty to the Ku Klux Klan, the Communist Party, or any other movement. Loyalty oaths do not belong in the classroom, nor should schoolchildren be forced to recite words of allegiance to any political power that they neither understand fully nor agree with. Giving them the option of a few moments of silence (as with school prayer) is not really an option at all; by the same reasoning, you could argue that schoolchildren should be allowed to state Pledges of Rebellion and Athiest slogans in school as well, while those children who are religious or loyal could have the option to keep silent and pray or swear allegiance to themselves. No doubt if that option was offered in school, you would object to it, but you do not understand the objection of others who disagree with your position.
Finally, I agree that many people in this country have died for the freedoms we cherish today. But I also think that many of those who gave their lives (including members of my own family) would be shocked at how many of those same freedoms have been limited, abused, or destroyed in the name of suich abominations as the Patriot Act. So, if you truly want to celebrate their memory, celebrate the freedoms that you disagree with as well as those you support--that celebration will be far more meaningful than words anyway.
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edthepoet
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Mar 13 @ 5:09PM
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It's called avoiding the slippery slope, if you ban this, then who is the judge of what is freedom of speech,Bush or any president ever. Nixon said on private tapes, that americans don't and shouldn't have the right to be free.
Look at the patriot act alone, all the rights we lost and there's still gunning for more to take away. History has proven,once you lose the right of free speech, your personal freedoms go right with it.
Plus, think about it, in your life time, how many flags have you actually seen burned before your eyes compared to all the flags you witness waving so beautifully.
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kjac
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Mar 13 @ 5:45PM
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Personally, I could never burn the flag of the country I love so much. But it is their right and since there's a 50/50 chance this comment will be posted, I'll say that you have no right to question the patriotism of anyone. And the fact that we are even having this discussion proves we live in a land of freedom. You may not agree with someone's way of expressing their opinion, but it is their right. If you would like to question my patriotism, go right ahead. I will laugh and pity you for the things you do not know.
I would like to speak for the sane atheists about the money issue too. We don't care! The way I see it, if the words on a dollar bill offend someone so much, they can hand it to me. I'll be more than happy to take it off their hands.
Anyway, the point is, it doesn't matter if you can bend on this issue, because it's not your decision. It's a free country. And as long as there are people willing to fight and die for that, it will always be free, whether the battle is overseas, or here at home.
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roughdiamond7
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Mar 13 @ 6:41PM
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You raise a point that leaves my conflicted.
I need to first point out that I’m not an American.
I’m an Australian.
And for me on one side:
I feel that respect for ones Nation or natural pride is an important thing to nurture. With a countries flag being the symbol of that country. Etc.
(although natural pride has historically been used to expand the wealth or power of a certain individuals, groups or corporations who may be controlling or manipulating the political, social or socio economic circumstance or situation at the time.)
Which could be reflected on the current conflict in which both or countries are involved.
On the other side
If we in the western world lose site of the supposed freedoms that permeate the very belief of our societies. What do we have. Not very bloody much.
And a flag is mostly just a piece of cheap bunting, sewn together in a specific pattern. A thing, like a car, shirt, dress, building or a radio.
Which make me question if it’s important. THINGS. Are things important?????????
[Given the choice of saving, a thing or a child. Is there really a choose.
Yes I can see certain individuals running out of the burning building with their stereo. Or more likely someone else’s with that particular type of individual. But I truly believe that the majority of the worlds population are good people and would save a child and care for their society. I certainly would and do. But! Things are just things. ]
Cause another side of me believes that, natural pride is more about nurturing the people of one's country, for the good of all. Opps! I guess I’ll have to get under the bed. I’m starting to sound a little red. LOL Caring for the people, is that communist? It has been branded so, historically. I digress.
Now I’m REALLY, REALLY CONFLICTED. LOL
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drj2
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Mar 13 @ 6:59PM
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The Flag
I'll wave to all of you, as you leave
when it's time for you to go.
As you sail from sea to shining sea
take the colors of your home.
Take me with you, wherever you go
keep me in your heart each night.
And if you forget what you're fighting for
remember me, in flight.
Take me out to the battleground,
and then tear me into shreds.
Wrap the bleeding wound with me,
and bind the aching head.
Plunge me into the coldest water
to soothe the fevered brow.
Tie me across the shattered limb,
I'll support it now.
Let me dry the homesick tear,
and hold closed, the gaping chest,
for here, in the field, where hope is lost
I am at my best.
And then, burn what is left of me,
for warmth into the night.
So I may bring comfort, where there is need
and courage, for the fight.
My red is deeper, for the blood you've shed.
My white is purer, for your pain.
My blue will be bluer than the deepest sea
when you come home again.
Then I'll rise to the top of the flagpole,
where my colors are always flown,
and from there, when the war is over
I'll wave, to welcome you home.
[/I]Olde Glory...
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drj2
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Mar 13 @ 7:03PM
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The Flag
Pledge of Allegiance
As a schoolboy, one of Red Skelton's teachers explained the words and meaning of the Pledge of Allegiance to his class. Skelton later wrote down, and eventually recorded, his recollection of this lecture. It is followed by an observation in his own words.
I - - Me; an individual; a committee of one.
Pledge - - Dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without self-pity.
Allegiance - - My love and my devotion.
To the Flag - - Our standard; Old Glory; a symbol of Freedom; wherever she waves there is respect, because your loyalty has given her a dignity that shouts, "Freedom is everybody's job."
United - - That means that we have all come together.
States - - Individual communities that have united into forty-eight great states. Forty-eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose. All divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose, and that is love for country.
And to the Republic - - Republic--a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And government is the people; and it's from the people to the leaders, not from the leaders to the people.
For which it stands One Nation - - One Nation--meaning, so blessed by God.
Indivisible - - Incapable of being divided.
With Liberty - - Which is Freedom; the right of power to live one's own life, without threats, fear, or some sort of retaliation.
And Justice - - The principle, or qualities, of dealing fairly with others.
For All - - For All--which means, boys and girls, it's as much your country as it is mine.
"And now, boys and girls, let me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance:"
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands;
one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance: Under God. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer, and that would be eliminated from schools, too?"
Red Skelton
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drj2
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Mar 13 @ 7:06PM
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Ragged Old Flag
I walked through a county courthouse square,
On a park bench an old man was sitting there.
I said, "Your old courthouse is kinda run down."
He said, "Naw, it'll do for our little town."
And that's a Ragged Old Flag you got hanging on it.
He said, "Have a seat", and I sat down.
"Is this the first time you've been to our little town?"
I said, "I think it is." He said, "I don't like to brag,
But we're kinda proud of that Ragged Old Flag."
"You see, we got a little hole in that flag there
When Washington took it across the Delaware.
And it got powder-burned the night Francis Scott Key
Sat watching it writing _Oh Say Can You See_.
And it got a bad rip in New Orleans
With Packingham and Jackson tuggin' at its seams."
"And it almost fell at the Alamo
Beside the Texas flag, but she waved on through.
She got cut with a sword at Chancellorsville
And she got cut again at Shiloh Hill.
There was Robert E. Lee, Beauregard, and Bragg,
And the south wind blew hard on that Ragged Old Flag."
"On Flanders Field in World War I
She got a big hole from a Bertha gun.
She turned blood red in World War II
She hung limp and low by the time it was through.
She was in Korea and Vietnam.
She went where she was sent by her Uncle Sam."
"She waved from our ships upon the briny foam,
And now they've about quit waving her back here at home.
In her own good land she's been abused --
She's been burned, dishonored, denied and refused."
"And the government for which she stands
Is scandalized throughout the land.
And she's getting threadbare and wearing thin,
But she's in good shape for the shape she's in.
'Cause she's been through the fire before
And I believe she can take a whole lot more."
"So we raise her up every morning, Take her down every night.
We don't let her touch the ground And we fold her up right.
On second thought I DO like to brag,
'Cause I'm mighty proud of that Ragged Old Flag."
~ Johnny Cash~
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drj2
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Mar 13 @ 7:19PM
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and my last comment on the subject....
Remember all the boys who loyal valor wore
Just doing their duty in times of direful war
Who the mantel of heroes bore.
Remember boys who fought humanity’s good fight
Who battled, stouthearted and bold, for right.
Worship at their alter of liberty
That the flower of youth in finest hour’s nobility
Will live on in cherished memory...
Remember these holy vessels by our father's sanctified
Sent to war with pomp and ceremony glorified
Bearing terrible sword’s of swiftest lightning
A valiant place in annals of history earning
For age shall not defeat them
Assailing enemies no longer have power to condemn
These grandest princes of freedom found
Those who honor bring to hallowed ground...
Remember boys standing straight and standing tall
Who in heed to battle’s raucous call
Gave the greatest gift of life, their all...
Heroes journeying the dimming pit’s of Hellish strife
Who fought for a country they loved more than life.
Trumpets now sound plaintive, sad refrains
Shedding tears in innocent eyes still feeling pains
Grown silent now a protester's blames.
As rivers of tears flow from a generation’s eyes
A nation for her lost youth cries...
Remember loving boys who saw too much
Just sons, husbands, fathers, who’ve done too much
Contending with bastions of hate in cankered mire
To the grandest precepts of manhood inspire
Just ordinary boys standing up against despots
Lionhearted men, Freedom’s brave zealots.
With noble courage still, they silently cry
What from our sacrifice have you learned, they sigh?
For what meaning did we die
Preserving grand liberty for you and me?
Standing on the bank of heaven’s river, can’t you see
From sea to shining sea?
We’ve given up the good times
Fallen forever mid discordant rhymes.
Will you this day in honor remember
Within your heart hold dear this glowing ember
Men revered of the highest caliber?
Remember warriors who fight for a gallant cause
Forevermore without question or pause
Who yield this land of milk and honey’s berth
Ever defiant of evil to gain peace on earth
That God’s precept of brotherhood find new birth!
Award us in this hour thy dauntless approbation.
Remember always our revered brotherly union.
Remember our souls in heroes air rarified.
Remember those who for divine precepts died
By ragged scars of death purified
Men no longer from the season of fear hidden
By the world’s cares driven.
For those who’ve fallen, no longer weep
For in their purest soul cares keep...
Grant this soldier’s last prayer...never forget!
Now and forever keep fires of freedom lit
A pièce de résistance by unflagging perseverance fit!
Remember, so our struggle might not have been in vain.
Sing our battle cry of freedom’s impassioned strain.
Remember, that we may ever in spirit be with you.
Remember, to thoughts of loss and death eschew.
Remember, to love us now, as we love you...
RogueSailor 
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OceanTravler
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Mar 13 @ 7:22PM
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Does anyone realize that the human animal is the only species that sends it fittest and finest out to kill each other, while saving the sick and mentally unstable to repopulate the world. Think about it!
Wars are make for a few to profit off the many while killing off the finest we have. NOBODY WINS A WAR!
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kjac
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Mar 13 @ 7:30PM
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Hey Ocean, what does that have to do with this blog? 
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Mission_Impossible139
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Mar 13 @ 8:13PM
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Flag burning, although rare, is not done by Americans who hate their own country. It's done as a vehement protest.
It's done because they are so worried about their country, they feel a need to "bitch slap" people into waking up. They look for change.
In a free country, it's up to all of its citizens to stand up against the government when you feel it's doing something wrong.
If this kind of protest is outlawed, it's just another sign that freedom is slowly, but surely, being taken away. Long live the right to burn the flag and other freedoms we take for granted here in America!
As to religion: Politics corrupts religion and religion corrupts politics. Let's keep them FAR FAR apart.
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drexxmonster
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Mar 13 @ 8:28PM
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I love my country and my flag and am a vetran.
Listen very carefully:
We do not have the right to not be offended in this country. Freedom of speech only ends when it endangers one of the other rights in the bill of rights.
It is a very slippery slope when we attempt to limit speech or expression. One never knows if the next type of speech or expression banned might be yours.
The idea of flag burning is VERY offensive to me but I would fight to the death your right to burn it.
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Mission_Impossible139
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Mar 13 @ 8:39PM
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It is a slippery slope and we are seeing the effects of going down that slope from the patriot act. Already the CIA has gone beyond the protections of the constitution. It may be nothing to you until you're on the other end of their tyranny.
Who knows, pretty soon, it will be against the law to burn Brittany Spears CD's.
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JeansToTight
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Mar 14 @ 9:31AM
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What is your goal here? That's what I want to ask those who come up with this crap. To take out nation down completely? To take all that we stand for, all that people have died for, suffered for?
Well for some yes ,,,our country is so free ,,(they) the folks who have came here because its a great place to live ,want to make it like there own .
We the americans seem to forget ,,,,whos country this is ,,,and because we all want to share it ,have let it go by the wayside .
We should fly (our Flag high ) way cuz its ours ,,,,,and some seem to be forgetting that.
In a free country, it's up to all of its citizens to stand up against the government when you feel it's doing something wrong.
Yes It is ,,,,,we all need to write more letters to people in office and let them know ,,(WE) the people will not stand for it !!!!!!
If this kind of protest is outlawed, it's just another sign that freedom is slowly, but surely, being taken away. Long live the right to burn the flag and other freedoms we take for granted here in America!
And thats just stupid way of thinking ,,,if we didnt have laws ,,,we would be lost....we have laws ,,because not all think right .and we need them to protect what we do have ,,if one dosent like the way the laws are written then there are other ways to change things ,,,,,not by taking things into ones own hands .
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refreshing925
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Mar 14 @ 3:38PM
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Only an American would be so upset about something so trivial. I have tavelled the world and this attitude is precisely the reason you guys have a bad name! Don't get me wrong, it's great to be patriotic! But shouldn't you guys be more concerned about what's going on in your government?? Or maybe about how many good citizens you are losing in war?? Personally, I know what your people want to stand for. And should stand for. But do you really think your leader is sending out that message to the rest of the world?? As you can see your anger needs to be redirected to much more serious issues that are going on around you.....or maybe because things aren't happening in America you don't see all the distruction. I don't know.
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Mission_Impossible139
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Mar 14 @ 7:52PM
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And thats just stupid way of thinking ,,,if we didnt have laws ,,,we would be lost....we have laws ,,because not all think right .and we need them to protect what we do have ,,if one dosent like the way the laws are written then there are other ways to change things ,,,,,not by taking things into ones own hands .
And that is precisely why there ISN"T a law against burning the flag. You are pretty bold to be calling my beliefs stupid. I won't lower myself to your level because you obviously don't understand the EXISTING laws. That's called ignorance and in the eye of the law, it's not an excuse!
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POTHOS304
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Mar 15 @ 9:43AM
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You might say that killing our troops is a freedom of speech too.
God gave people a tongue to voice their opinions.
Good blog Truleo.
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