|
I mean, light is energy. We can see that. Electricity is energy. We can feel it. And like I said, we can measure it. But. Something seems dreadfully unkosher to me.
The unkosherness comes from the previous statements. Light is not energy. Light has energy. Electricity is not energy. Electricity has energy. Yes, you can feel it and measure it, but that doesn't mean "it" is energy. You could be feeling and measuring something that "it" has.
Light "is" photons, and photons have energy. Electricity "is" a directed flow of electrons, and electrons have energy.
Can it be that energism is much the same? It's awfully convenient to talk of energy as if it's this substance that can take on different forms.
You have wonderful perception. I sometimes wondered if I were the only one who wondered that. It does appear to take on many forms, doesn't it? Very very different forms. Raising a book over your head yields potential energy. Heating something yields thermal (kinetic) energy. Yet that seems fundamentally different from the kinetic energy of a pitcher's fastball. And who could deny the energy of a destructive tornado? Or the chemical energy of a tightly bound O2 molecule? How can all those things be the same? They seem so different!
I've already given you the answer. In each case, the energy of the system is that quantity which is conserved due to time symmetry of the action integral. Each of those things: the baseball, O2 molecule, tornado, has a Lagrangian, in principle, even if it's not knowable (or knowable exactly). Form the action integral and let the time translation operator act on the action integral.
This is the commonality between all those things.
But is electricity anything more a specific motion of electrons?
Yes -- it is the directed flow of electrons. That word "directed" is important because electrons are flowing everywhere all the time.
But does the ability to measure something mean that it's real?
I suppose it depends on your definition of real. To a deist, the ability to measure something is a sufficient, but not necessary, condition for reality. But *I* think that measurement is both a sufficient and a necessary condition for reality. But I'm biased: after so many years of pain, I'd be f***ING PISSED if it turned out that physics were all a lie. :-)
So I want to know. Is energy for real? Oris it a number-dance? A highly reliable and convenient number-dance, certainly, but is it the word merely giving apparent concreteness to what is in fact entirely an abstraction?
Now, I'm fine with energy being a convenient abstraction, if that's what it is. But why don't people act like it?
Again, this depends on your definition of "real", doesn't it? I'm willing to bet dollars for doughnuts that you and I have different definitions for reality.
I'm comfortable saying that energy is definitely not a number dance --- this trivializes energy. Energy is too useful and too pervasive to call it a "number dance". Perhaps it might seem that way to you, reading all my mumbo-jumbo gobbledy-gook about "Lagrangians" and "Hamiltonians". But these things are very real to *me* because they have been tested in a laboratory, over and over, using the most precise measuring apparatus mankind can build. We've built our entire society on the success of these equations. To me they're just as real and alive as you are.
No. It's definitely MORE than a number dance.
Abstraction? I dunno. Perhaps. But even if it IS an abstraction, how exactly would you want me to act? 
I dedicate my two energy blogs to Sean, whom I've met at Great Jones and consider to be outrageously brilliant, unbelievably witty and talented, and a great guy. I would not want to match wits with you on a non-physics or finance topic!
Copy & paste to friend: (Click inside box; Ctrl + C to copy; Ctrl + V to paste)
|
|
read more blogs!
Blogs by koyaanisqatsi:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Energy: Dedicated to Monsterboy (part II) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
redtigr
|
Aug 2 @ 12:55AM
|
|
Fabulous stuff, Koy (and Monsterboy)... All of your blogs are more than a numbers dance!
Take my little kudo which I send to you via some means of energy flowing through a little fiber optic network.
This rocks!!
This energizes me!!
|
|
indecipherable
|
Aug 2 @ 2:44AM
|
|
I posted this in Monsterboy's blog also:
I just thought of something myself, and it might sound foolish but it oddly fits into Monsterboy's observation. Reading his thoughts on energy got me thinking how it could be described as a noun (person,place, thing) when energy itself is nothing but the result of work - or force, displacement, cause. So energy would therefore have to be a verb! Webster's got it wrong!
You're the smart one, so I'll let you decide if that makes any sense! 
|
|
misschoos
|
Aug 2 @ 7:26AM
|
|
|
|
enigmasrook
|
Aug 2 @ 9:03AM
|
|
|
|
whatagal
|
Aug 2 @ 10:38AM
|
|
|
This is yet another brilliant blog from you Koy. It raises several questions for me.
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 2 @ 4:14PM
|
|
|
No complete thought in this blog. It is copy and paste babble from various sources. You can't fool everyone my friend. You do the people who write these materials an injustice and it's illegal. If you want to appear to be educated go to school.
|
|
waterfire
|
Aug 2 @ 6:31PM
|
|
|
But these things are very real to *me* because they have been tested in a laboratory, over and over, using the most precise measuring apparatus mankind can build.
So basically you are observing (like when the batter hits that ball), at what point do you know?
*I used to joke with a few friends, if they see a ball of light it is just me focusing all my energy outside my body so do not throw water on it 
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 2 @ 7:13PM
|
|
|
If you want to appear to be educated go to school.
And should you wish to appear to be educated, punctuate your sentences correctly.
|
|
koyaanisqatsi
|
Aug 2 @ 7:40PM
|
|
LongRanger:
* Eastham has seen my framed and signed doctorate hanging on my livingroom wall.
* Jentoblues, Eastham, OceanEyedMystiq, Hammertime, Cynbaby, BandtMom, and others have all seen my dissertation.
I'm the real deal. Publications, NSF grants, academic publications, book publishings, and everything. Or are you claiming they're all liars, too?
You claim to have a PhD. I don't believe that. I think you're a liar. In fact, I've heard some inconsistencies in what you claim about yourself.
Who has seen your dissertation? Nobody? No surprise!
I'll ask you again: Let's swap dissertations. I'll prove to you I have mine. You prove you got yours, and we'll settle this once and for all. I'll even give you a copy of all my peer reviewed journal articles, free of charge. I have a feeling you're going to coward out because of some lame excuse. So let's hear the excuse...
|
|
koyaanisqatsi
|
Aug 2 @ 7:48PM
|
|
Indecipherable, it still has to be a noun because it's a thing -- objects posses it, just as people posses objects (a clock), a trait (loyalty), or a temporary condition (amnesia). Clocks, loyalty, and amnesia are all nouns, too.
The result of action can be (is always?) a noun: smithing can produce a horseshoe, jumping produces leg muscles. And movement over a distance (when force and displacement are not perpendicular) produces energy!
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 2 @ 8:52PM
|
|
Hmmm, I was wondering what had happened to dissertations as high noon!
And yes, I have seen the aforementioned doctorate and while I had my difficulties, I have read the dissertation!
|
|
BandTMom
|
Aug 2 @ 9:05PM
|
|
As Koya said, I have read the dissertation.
Brilliant!
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 2 @ 9:08PM
|
|
|
Eastham has seen my framed and signed doctorate hanging on my livingroom wall.
The only thing hanging on your living room wall is poster of Greg Brady.
* Jentoblues, Eastham, OceanEyedMystiq, Hammertime, Cynbaby, BandtMom, and others have all seen my dissertation.
dissertation  and if either one of them knew what they were reading they throw it the garbage. No offense to them but like I said Mr. Dissertation your a phony.
I'm the real deal. Publications, NSF grants, academic publications, book publishings, and everything. Or are you claiming they're all liars, too?
Oh yeah your the real deal alright 
You claim to have a PhD. I don't believe that. I think you're a liar. In fact, I've heard some inconsistencies in what you claim about yourself.
Well good for you. There is nothing at all inconsistent about you. You consistently never know what your talking about.
Who has seen your dissertation? Nobody? No surprise!
I'll ask you again: Let's swap dissertations. I'll prove to you I have mine. You prove you got yours, and we'll settle this once and for all. I'll even give you a copy of all my peer reviewed journal articles, free of charge. I have a feeling you're going to coward out because of some lame excuse. So let's hear the excuse...
Listen Pal, you obviously have no clue to what your talking about. Do really want me to embarass you on here because I will, no problem at all.
|
|
jentoblues101
|
Aug 2 @ 9:17PM
|
|
I'll vouch 100% for Koy; I have indeed seen his dissertation, some of his publications, and the wiki entry for him.
You don't know who you're arguing with.
God knows a reformed dopefiend and exconvict is good to have at your back in some circumstances (if, that is, I can figure out whether the safety is on or off), but in an esoteric argument over physics and energy....?
Ok Pete. Fire away.
|
|
indecipherable
|
Aug 2 @ 10:37PM
|
|
|
This reminds me of the movie "Good Will Hunting". Remember the part where Matt Damon's character embarrasses the Harvard student in a battle of the intellectuals. Koy is Will! Loved that movie!
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 2 @ 10:41PM
|
|
|
I'll vouch 100% for Koy; I have indeed seen his dissertation, some of his publications, and the wiki entry for him.
You don't know who you're arguing with.
Let me tell you something. If you want to back up what is written in this blog and other blogs this man has written thats your problem. Neither one of you obviously know what the heck your talking about.This blog is nothing but rambling with utterly no scientific value whatsoever. It's a attempt to impress or persuade someone who doesn’t know what they are reading. Nobody with a scientific mind would write this babble. Some of it's copy and paste of others materials and parts of it is nothing.
God knows a reformed dopefiend and exconvict is good to have at your back in some circumstances (if, that is, I can figure out whether the safety is on or off), but in an esoteric argument over physics and energy....?
Ok Pete. Fire away.
What this means, who knows.
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 2 @ 10:44PM
|
|
This is one of my favorite:
Yes -- it is the directed flow of electrons. That word "directed" is important because electrons are flowing everywhere all the time.
Get real man.
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 2 @ 11:23PM
|
|
|
Let me tell you something. If you want to back up what is written in this blog and other blogs this man has written thats your problem.
And this is one of my favorites, Lone. You're problem includes a fundamental misunderstanding of grammar!!!
Fret all you want, you are this side of incohence!
|
|
koyaanisqatsi
|
Aug 3 @ 12:52AM
|
|
Do you or do you not want to trade dissertations?
I have no problem with you having my email address if you return the favor. You decide who sends to whom first. I'll abide by whatever you say:
1. I'll give you my email address first so that you can send your dissertation first. Then you give me your email address and I'll send you my dissertation.
2. Or, if you like, you give me your email address and I'll send you my dissertation. Then I'll give you my email address and you can send your dissertation.
Pick one and I'll abide by your decision. But for heaven's sake, aren't you tired of this? Let's get it over with.
If you're not a fraud, let's trade documents already!
|
|
DZDiva
|
Aug 3 @ 3:20AM
|
|
Amazing, isn't it?
People get so jealous over a true friend, wonderful teacher and the best guy online here, who in a heartbeat would love to meet them in person.....just sayin.....
Advice to him...get a wipee and ungrease those hands, certainly must be tired stroking whatever it is that he lays claim to.....
Luv ya Pete and always will......
|
|
BandTMom
|
Aug 3 @ 6:31AM
|
|
Koya, you know you have arrived on MD when you have your own personal stalker. 
You ARE one of the best guys on here. I am happy and proud to call you my friend!
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 3 @ 7:56AM
|
|
|
Well I multi-task friend. Communicating with you bunch of amateurs is a rather stumpy priority if you get my drift. Like I always say, quick with the mouth and tardy with the facts you bunch.
You haven't presented one fact, merely your misguided opinion. Your posts here have not included any factual discussion or refutation of the scientific information presented in these two blogs nor any additional material (dissertation, articles). It would seem you are the one tardy with the facts, no your facts are absent.
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 3 @ 10:51AM
|
|
|
You haven't presented one fact, merely your misguided opinion. Your posts here have not included any factual discussion or refutation of the scientific information presented in these two blogs nor any additional material (dissertation, articles). It would seem you are the one tardy with the facts, no your facts are absent.
Present fact on what?
Again, this depends on your definition of "real", doesn't it? I'm willing to bet dollars for doughnuts that you and I have different definitions for reality.
Thats for freaken sure.
|
|
Cynbaby
|
Aug 3 @ 11:10AM
|
|
|
100% Vouch!!!! Also one hell of a guy
|
|
koyaanisqatsi
|
Aug 3 @ 1:27PM
|
|
Enough is enough. Here's my doctorate:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2p774r
http://www.sendspace.com/file/vpdnbm
You'll see my kitty, Bones, next to my degree. You can also see Bones in my MD pictures.
If you can wait till Monday, I'll scan some of my old research, homeworks, and tests which clearly show PhD level theoretical physics work.
Here are two homeworks from a class on Stochastic Calculus I took last semester. I think they demonstrate, if nothing else, that I'm fairly adept at advanced mathematics:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/hm2wau
http://www.sendspace.com/file/sabrww
So now you've seen my diploma. You've seen some of my work. You're going be treated to some juicy physics research on Monday.
Prove to everyone on MD that you're not a liar. Post a pic of your degree.
I would like this to be a demonstration of the type of person who doesn't believe in evolution. Creationists and Intelligent Design folk, like LongRanger, are liars and cheaters. Not only are you a liar, but you're a little coward who is afraid of posting a picture of yourself.
For anyone who considers dating LongRanger:
Read this thread. Evaluate the evidence. I've shown my credentials. He keeps posting comment after comment without showing his. Would you really want to date someone who can't back up who he claims to be?
You can't produce any proof of your degree whatsoever. What else are you lying about? Who would date an obvious liar? Who would trust one?
Other people who don't believe in evolution: This is your kind. This is you.
|
|
BandTMom
|
Aug 3 @ 5:22PM
|
|
|
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 3 @ 5:38PM
|
|
The die has been cast!!! 
|
|
LongRanger278
|
Aug 4 @ 1:37AM
|
|
A doctorate on:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2p774r
If you can wait till Monday, I'll scan some of my old research, homeworks, and tests which clearly show PhD level theoretical physics work
Let's be honest, you have a PhD level in bull crap.
|
|
eastham
|
Aug 4 @ 7:51AM
|
|
|
And you, sir, are now officially a fraud.
|
|
koyaanisqatsi
|
Aug 4 @ 8:03AM
|
|
Yeah, I didn't think so.
I agree with Eastham. You're officially a fraud and a liar.
|
|
BandTMom
|
Aug 4 @ 3:47PM
|
|
I will join the agreement club!
|
|
enigmasrook
|
Aug 4 @ 3:58PM
|
|
I've seen koy's work, also. I didn't understand a lick of it.....  ......so it must be real. 
|
|
hammertime
|
Aug 5 @ 12:48PM
|
|
LongDeRanger never gives up. You have to give him credit for that. Perseverance is an admirable trait but you find the same sort of obsessive behavior in psychopaths too. You also have to give him some credit for being smart enough to have a bogus profile. He's avoiding the embarrassment just in case any family, friends or co-workers happen to drop by for a visit.
|
|
|