At a school in Oxnard, Ca., a 15 year old student was sitting in his first period class as normal on a normal school day. But this was no ordinary student. This student was flamboyant to say the least. He did not dress like most if not all of the other students. He would come to school wearing high-heeled boots, makeup, jewelry and painted nails. This student was living in a foster care center for troubled and abused youths. Some of his classmates described him as openly gay. Obviously from where he was living, this student had a troubled background. Self inflicted or not, that part is unknown.
Now this student was sitting in his first period class when he was approached by another student who pulled out a gun and shot him twice in the head. The shooter then proceeded to drop the gun at the scene and ran away from the school. The shooter was caught by police a short time later. This shooting took place in front of 24 other students. The 15 year old boy later died at the hospital.
Why was this student killed? Why is a 15 year old no longer with us? Because he was gay? Some of the students who were interviewed at the scene said the way the 15 year old dressed freaked them out. Well isn't that a shame. He dresses different so lets kill him. He is gay and we are not so lets get rid of the one who is different. Are you kidding me?
The kid who reportedly shot him was only 14 years old. 14? How does a 14 year old generate that much hate for anyone? To kill someone at the age of 14? Where does a 14 year old get a gun? Where is the parents of these 2 students?
This comes back to my way of thinking that a lot of kids are being raised by video games, violent movies, violent music lyrics, the internet and the influences of other children. There is no way a 14 year old is going to have enough nerve or desire to shoot someone unless he/she is influenced by something other then the parents.
Why is this 15 year old dead? Because he was different? Because he was maybe gay? Because he wore something different then what other little boys were wearing? I will tell you, the reason this boy is dead is because society failed him.
How did society fail him you ask? Lets start of by saying this 14 year old got a gun. Somewhere along the line this gun was the property of some adult. No 14 year old got it from a gun store. And if he got it from another friend then somewhere along the life of that gun, some adult was responsible for a child to get that gun. How did this student get the gun in a classroom? With all the school shootings across the country happening, schools need to do something to insure the safety of the children who attend.
As a society we have accepted violence as part of life. We love to watch it in movies, we like to sing along to lyrics that contain violence, we like to play video games that kill everyone, we like to watch people fight on youtube. But then when we watch violence on the news we condemn the suspect. We say 'how can this monster do this?' while at the same time we are arming this monster with all the influences needed to do monsterous things. 100 years ago children were influenced by their parents and not by movies, lyrics, video games, internet. Now how many school killings were there 100 years ago compared to today?
This 15 year old child was killed because the other student had no tolerance for someone who was different then himself. Maybe if this shooters parents were more of an influence in this childs life then society was, the 15 year old would be going to school tomorrow. But because society failed these 2 children, one is dead and the other one will be in prison for almost his whole life. In affect, 2 kids lives are over before they even got to start.
I am not gay but I can't imagine hating someone who is, let alone kill them just for being gay. Society needs to wake up and realize that if we don't raise our children right, then we can unfortunately expect more of these tragedies in the future. Lets make our children priority number one, or maybe not have them at all.
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| Child Killed For Being Gay |
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oceanlover734
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Feb 18 @ 9:22PM
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All I could do while reading this `was shake my head in disbelief. I don't know the answer to these type things. I do know it is beyond sad.
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lisa46
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Feb 18 @ 9:31PM
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May as well thank the government now. They said adults couldn't punish their children or they would be put in jail for child abuse. Then you have the "mr know it all" who says time out!  My generation wasn't perfect but I am glad I was born when I was! My mom beat the crap out of us and yes I'm almost 48 and I still respect my elders
(okay I mumble behind their backs) but never to their face
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SunBabe
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Feb 18 @ 9:46PM
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Ummmm...someone has to say it and it might as well be me  : hasn't there been an awful lot of condemnation toward gays by certain religions lately? 
Hey, "they", the "haters", don't only learn intolerance at home...sometimes it's reinforced by other, perfectly acceptable, "institutional" influences. 
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hereshannon
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Feb 18 @ 9:53PM
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Lisa46 is absolutely correct, the majority of this crap is happening because we are no longer allowed to discipline our children! They grow up being taught in the schools that if their parents spank them they are being abused. All I can say is that if we continue down this path of letting the children control the parents, we better start building some more prisons quick! When I was a child I got the belt when I did wrong, and it only took a couple times for me to learn who was in charge. Kids are not stupid, if they know the only consequences for breaking rules will be a few minutes in "time out", they will continue to do as they please. And unfortunately this behavior often follows them into their adult life.
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ttomtarr
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Feb 18 @ 9:57PM
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I don't think terms like child, kiddie, baby or little boy are appropriately applied to a 14 year old youth living in a center for troubled youth in modern times in California.
It sounds like he tried to intentionally and flagrantly violate the moral code ot the students around him. The other students' anger was fairly predictable.
It sounds like they were both products of an "anything goes" society, both programmed to lose their lives, one to murder, one to the prison system.
It is a shame neither had been taught that acts have consequences that cannot be walked away from.
One obviously felt free to flaunt a bizarre life style regardless of the feelings of those around him. The other decided to emulate the experience that most young people his age have witnessed over 10,.000 times on TV, murder.
How many incidents like this need a sober person witness before he links TV obscenity and crime, with the actions of young people who witness it ?
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AutumnSilk
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Feb 18 @ 10:01PM
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Words don't seem to justify what the dead boy needed but for the other kids who "don't conform" we do need to show understanding, tolerance and LOVE for our fellow human.
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530Meliss
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Feb 18 @ 10:30PM
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Lisa, you can't say "Mom or Dad" in California schools any longer. Arnie signed a bill into law. It's "parents" now 'cause we need to be more understanding of single gender households.
Such a sad shame all the way around.
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LongRanger278
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Feb 18 @ 10:45PM
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I'll tell who's to blame. The foster care center that allowed him to attend school dressed as a female. The school for allowing himto attend classes dressed as female. He should have been removed and placed in special education.
People like you are also in part to blame. You carve the path to situations like this to happen and then in your stupidity ask why. Tell me, do you think a 15 year-old male student dressed as a female should be mixed in with normal students?. What kind of school other then our trashed public schools would tolerate a 15 year-old male student coming to school dressed as a female.
I don't condone the shooting by no means but you can't tee the ball up and then complain when someone breaks a window. The public school system is a mess
and this is just another prime example. Are you telling me that the school and foster care center were rational in this? it didn't dawn on anyone that this 15 year-old kid dressed as a girl could be in danger?.
I'll tell you this. The gay groups and organizations that have been suing schools for things like are also to blame. If some common sense was used by the foster care center and school this kid would be alive today and attending a school more fitted for his mental illness.
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ttomtarr
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Feb 18 @ 11:19PM
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I don't think the kid was shot for being gay.
I think he was shot for being so vigorous about rubbing his choices into other students faces.
I do not discuss right or wrong here, only motivation.
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Godless
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Feb 18 @ 11:24PM
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May as well thank the government now. They said adults couldn't punish their children or they would be put in jail for child abuse. Then you have the "mr know it all" who says time out! My generation wasn't perfect but I am glad I was born when I was! My mom beat the crap out of us and yes I'm almost 48 and I still respect my elders
Yeah... that's the solution... beat the kids so they won't be bullies!! *eyeroll*
How about getting the f*** away from loonies at churches? How about exposing your kids to hate by having them study the holicaust, reading up on the inquisitions, or even going to something more modern like www.godhatesfags.com, then teach that child some acceptance? Not tolerance, but acceptance!
Why is the solution to teaching kids things ALWAYS beating them? I'm so sick and tired of it.
Lisa46 is absolutely correct, the majority of this crap is happening because we are no longer allowed to discipline our children! They grow up being taught in the schools that if their parents spank them they are being abused. All I can say is that if we continue down this path of letting the children control the parents, we better start building some more prisons quick! When I was a child I got the belt when I did wrong, and it only took a couple times for me to learn who was in charge. Kids are not stupid, if they know the only consequences for breaking rules will be a few minutes in "time out", they will continue to do as they please. And unfortunately this behavior often follows them into their adult life.
Hear hear! Beat the living snot out of the children so they will be kind and considerate human beings!
Am I the ONLY person who sees how this is wrong?
Lisa, you can't say "Mom or Dad" in California schools any longer. Arnie signed a bill into law. It's "parents" now 'cause we need to be more understanding of single gender households.
Such a sad shame all the way around.
Why is that a shame? This law should have been enacted YEARS ago. This isn't a "gay" law... it's a law that protects kids from ridicule. Kids in foster care, orphans, children of single parent homes, etc. Now that I'm thinking about it, Texas needs a law like that, I'm highly disgusted by the assignments my daughter has gotten this year - and she has a mom and dad.
I'll tell who's to blame. The foster care center that allowed him to attend school dressed as a female. The school for allowing himto attend classes dressed as female. He should have been removed and placed in special education.
You, sir, are an idiot. Also... something I've been meaning to tell you for a long time... it's LONE Ranger.
Suppose you liked to shave and the majority of students didn't, does that make you a freak? Does that mean your parents shouldn't allow you out of the house until your hair grows? You know, it wasn't that long ago that men (gay or straight) couldn't wear a pink shirt without being beat up, and the majority of people think that's pretty damned ridiculous now... when will everyone learn that being different shouldn't be punishable unless it actually HURTS another human being or animal. It's that stinking simple.
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tinamarie10
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Feb 18 @ 11:38PM
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I don't think the kid was shot for being gay.
I think he was shot for being so vigorous about rubbing his choices into other students faces.
I do not discuss right or wrong here, only motivation.
This is where we must teach our children "tolerance", to shoot someone, take a life
because (his need to get attention and flaunt his odd way) is utterly insane...the killer would have done something else morbidly outragious, if this would not have occurred.....so sad.
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Kateslooking
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Feb 18 @ 11:39PM
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Wow what a topic and look at the emotions. What about my two cents? Well the murderer is getting what he deserves. Killing someone for being wierd, different, or something else that hurts nobody is way wrong.
Now on the other hand I have issues like a lot of people when someone stands out in a very dramatic way almost saying hey I am different and I am throwing it in your face!
I have never had a problem with gay people. I cannot understand them but then they cant understand me. I do have a problem with gay people that scream to the world they are gay. I guess how I see it gay people are normal people except for one small but insignigicant aspect.
Katie
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ttomtarr
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Feb 19 @ 12:02AM
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If we say everything is OK for everybody, it has predictable results.
It means it is OK to go to school in drag.
It means it is OK to shoot people you don't like. It is all OK.
Any sane person knows some behavior is not OK, needs to be regulated, and taught to children at an early age.
Perhaps Long _ _ _ er draws his name from the fact that universal tolerance of deviant behavior is not OK in the LONG run, that it is disruptive to society, and causes breakdown of social order.
Perhaps, he, like myself and a vast number of men, was hit on as a child, so often, and by so many adult, gay, wannabe pederasts that he has very little tolerance for their bull chit !
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philly67
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Feb 19 @ 12:02AM
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I agree with lisa46 as well..... BUT there is a diffrerence between beating a child and good ole fashion spanking . It just seems to me now that the government has got involved in parenting their is more violence then ever.
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Fr8rain
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Feb 19 @ 12:22AM
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I don't know why he was shot so I'm not going to point fingers. Well, maybe only one. Intolerance of differences, whether it's religion, skin color, job, clothing brand, sneaker brand, beer brand, whatever.
Thinking that someone was wrong for allowing him to wear what he wanted wherever he wanted doesn't address the issue.
He felt comfortable in his clothing or maybe he did it for shock value
He shouldn't have been shot for it. Guns don't kill, people do
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lefthandedluckie
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Feb 19 @ 12:33AM
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Our biggest problem today is intolerance! It is being taught in the Mosque's...excuse me...churches! The people there spread it to their children it is then spread to the whole country! Hate gays they are against some god somewhere....my god,your god, my sons god, my neighbors god....it is stupidity!
Until this intolerance is stopped you will continue to see it everyday!
This in my opinion was a "Hate" crime! Created and started by religion! How he was dressed had nothing to do with it. If anything the kids laughed at that. It was him being gay and the hatred from religion that killed this boy!
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ttomtarr
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Feb 19 @ 12:34AM
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Why is there so much talk of tolerance expressed for the kid who was shot, but not for the shooter?
Do not the great liberal hearts bleed just as copiously for the poor tyke who was so driven by the angst of disenfranchisement, so preconditioned to murder by the violence prone media and popular music, so confused by the "If it feels OK it is OK" dogma being taught now, and so befuddled by never being made responsible for his own actions that he thought shooting a deviant was OKm and will now rot in the cesspool of public caretaking for the rest of his life. Is it innaccurate to say his life will be worse than being dead? Why no outflow of love and tolerance for hin too?
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Fr8rain
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Feb 19 @ 12:45AM
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so you would have tolerance for the deviant shooter? but not the "deviant" victim?
your words not min
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ttomtarr
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Feb 19 @ 12:56AM
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My words are a mockery of those who will sieze on any subject as an occasion to spill some more of their totally lopsided psuedo-liberal cant.
The two kids involved are products of the California culture, along with the hillside strangler, Charlie Manson, and a host of other notables. We departed that state years ago, when someone started killing and raping (in that order) women in our neighborhood. If California wants to go crazy, I will not get upset by the predictable results of its actions. The first words out of most babies mouth is mama. If Arnie wants to make that illegal in public, he can live with the results, including those in tonight's blog.
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redbronze
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Feb 19 @ 1:05AM
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ttom the shooter is alive.. he is young and if not charged as an adult will get his life back when he is 21.. The kid that was killed will never have a chance to figure out his own personal lifestyle, he is to dead to do so..
Being an adult advocate for gay kids I have seen a lot.. some good some not so good.. I have seen kids who's parents loved and did not judge their child's queerness and I have seen kids thrown out on the street by their god fearing parents.. I have also seen these same parents when they got their head out of Jesus' ass come around and form a relationship with the same kid they threw out.. Others never left the cavity and are still there. You only have to look as far as Dick our Vice president, but that is another cloak and dagger smoke screen to befuddle the masses with hate and anger..
It is not a liberal issue on protecting the rights of those who are different. it is a human issue that all of us need to look beyond ourselves.
I for one feel that both boys were failed but violence in any form be it beating someone senseless to pulling a trigger is an answer.. It has been historically shown that violence is usually used in place of dialogue, but that violence also triggers dialogue.. a strange dialog..
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wandaful123
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Feb 19 @ 1:11AM
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It means it is OK to go to school in drag.
It means it is OK to shoot people you don't like. It is all OK.
This just makes me sick, absolutely no hope whatsoever for society as we know it.
To compare a kid who doesn't dress "right" to one who would shoot him for it... God forgive us all.
Don't blame God, I swear to God he's crying too...
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asnet
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Feb 19 @ 1:12AM
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What is your source for this alleged news story?
I'm sending it to snopes to have it checked out.
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LongRanger278
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Feb 19 @ 1:13AM
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The two kids involved are products of the California culture
Bingo................. 
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SunBabe
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Feb 19 @ 1:18AM
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"Gay"..."dressed like a girl"? Or "goth" (lol, pretty weird, but accepted in a lot of communities)
Or maybe he was just short and wore those 3" high cowboy boots like a lot of short guys wear (at least the ones around here)
Original LA Times story
Full story (updated) with video
...nothing in those articles that says the kid was especially flamboyant -- look at the pictures of the others in the school: looks like a pretty ordinary mix of kids...sounds like he was a typical/normal kid 'experimenting' with his adolescent sexuality and "limits" and it freaked out the other kid. Teenage boy stuff with tragic results, unfortunately. 
"We're basically a blue- collar community, and some crime goes with it," said Manuel Perez, 81, who was born in Oxnard and has lived in the same home with his wife, Virginia, 79, for five decades. "But it's really a very nice place to live with really good people."
Bullies can be found anywhere, Perez said.
What bothers him about this week's shooting is that it might have been prevented if school officials had more aggressively responded to reports of friction between the two young men.
"Junior high is a critical age, and there are red flags," Perez said. "They're not babies anymore, and they're not in high school. They are just starting to feel their oats."
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hereshannon
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Feb 19 @ 6:14AM
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Yes, another incident brought to us from the California freak show! The sooner we have a major earthquake and California floats out into the South Pacific the better off we will all be!! And perhaps in the mean time we can give the place back to Mexico. 
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Godless
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Feb 19 @ 7:41AM
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*** please delete last comment, the quotes were all wrong ***
It means it is OK to go to school in drag.
It means it is OK to shoot people you don't like. It is all OK.
That's one hell of a leap, don't you think?
It means it is ok to pick your nose in public.
It means it is ok to slice a person's nose of because you don't like it
Any sane person knows some behavior is not OK, needs to be regulated, and taught to children at an early age.
Yeah, like hating people so much for something stupid that they kill them for it.
Perhaps, he, like myself and a vast number of men, was hit on as a child, so often, and by so many adult, gay, wannabe pederasts that he has very little tolerance for their bull chit !
Maybe you should have been taught the differences between dressing drag, being gay, and pedophilia.
Yes, another incident brought to us from the California freak show! The sooner we have a major earthquake and California floats out into the South Pacific the better off we will all be!! And perhaps in the mean time we can give the place back to Mexico.
You know why I'm so shocked at this story? BECAUSE it's in California, where people don't normally judge people like this. I would expect this bullshit in Texas, though I would still be angry about it, but California???
BTW, nice job on showing your hate for anything different... don't you just love your God who "created" such beings so you can just hate them and kill them?
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LJRite
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Feb 19 @ 10:58AM
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This is HORRIBLE, and now 2 families destroyed not one, the shooter's and the boy that was so called different! .......Makes me SICK, where are the parents to teach these kids just cause someone is bigger, or shorter or dresses differently doesnt mean you have the right to ridicule, SHOOT or even hurt with other weapons or words which can sometimes be even more hurtful than anything!
So what he is different, makes that person unique and these kids are afraid to be unique, they might be laughed at or ridiculed themself. !! This behavior starts at HOME, I dont care what anyone says and parents really need to pay attention to there children and what they are learning from them on a daily basis.....
This SHIT pisses me off BIG time!!.........I would rather be ONE minute of unique than a lifetime of mundane.........jerks!!
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lefthandedluckie
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Feb 19 @ 2:38PM
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ttomtarr...said this....".... that he thought shooting a deviant was OKm...."...!!
"YOU" are the very type person I am speaking of! You called the young man that was shot a "deviant"!
People that think like you do are the very cause of the death of that boy! You find these type people in church, republican rallies and the republican party! Skinheads, neo-nazis and other hate groups are all extreme right-wing!
I call'em like I see'em, sir!!
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justsayyeah7
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Feb 19 @ 4:57PM
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Wow, I checked my last blog and found lots of interesting comments on there. Here are some of my thoughts on some of your thoughts.
Asnet - This story is real I assure you. Look it up on any search engine. I do not know what snopes is though.
Several of the comments there are blaming church and religion for actions like these. I am a deep believer in God however I do not belong to a religion or attend church. My faith is the bible and that is all I need. With this in mind, I am quite sure that religion and church frowns down on homosexuality because the bible tells us that God does not want us to be that. But even though I do not attend church, I am quite certain that killing homosexuals is not a normal sermon for them. I think it would be safe to say that almost every single church does not preach to people that killing anyone is ok. Another blog labeled republicans as having skinheads and neo nazis in their party. Once again, I am not a republican nor attend their rallies, but I am quite certain that republicans are not embracing skinheads and neo nazis in their party. I am not a democrat either, but wasn't Senator Byrd part of a racist group before he was a senator and he is a democrat. Even though this senator has a bad background, I am sure democrats do not embrace racism. This goes to show you that both republican and democrat parties have good people in them but like in all things in life, there are few bad apples in every bunch.
Why do people feel the need to stereotype other people? Especially people they do not see eye to eye with. Does anyone really think, honestly, that this 14 year old shooter shot this kid for religious reasons? Should we blame church for all the worlds problems or are we ready to accept responsibilities as people for our own action? When you blame the church, is it your thinking that there are more crazy people attending church then who are not. Is the church reponsible for women who are raped, burglaries, murders, spousal abuse and other terrible crimes? Or is it people who are responsible for their own action?
When we pass the buck like this the problems don't get resolved, they just continue. This 15 year old is dead and it is tragic. The shooter did what a lot of students do, he picked on someone who was different then himself. This is happening all over the country. This is what kids do. The only difference in this case is that the shooter took it to an extreme level that almost all other kids would not. He killed someone. How many other children get picked on, or beat up, or teased because they are considered geeks, nerds, weirdos or just plain different besides gay? This is what kids do. PARENTS, AND ONLY PARENTS ARE RESPONISBLE FOR THEIR KIDS ACTIONS.
Here where I live in Southern California(and yes I saw that comment about how better off the country would be if California floated away....you are such a joker) kids are getting killed all the time by other kids, especially gang related. Would you blame the church, or religion, or the republican party for that? Or would you blame society on a whole who not only allow this to happen, but helps influence it with all the violence we throw the kids way. When a child kills another child, we need to stop placing blame on factions we don't like and just look in the mirror and blame ourselves as adults. Children need adults to set them right so they can grow up to be great adults, and in these tragic, senseless cases, we have failed these children.
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ttomtarr
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Feb 19 @ 5:21PM
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Please read my ENTIRE comment. It is a logical argument called Reductio ad absurdum, reduction to the absurd, where an opponent's argument is carried on to its absurd logical conclusion.
I began with "If we say everything is OK for everybody ..."
I thought more about this blog today, and both these young men are the products of idiots who put their moronic ivory tower theories into law, and force them onto real people living in real situations trying to deal with real conflicts. I include the "give em all guns" nuts, the "any sexual activity is good" nuts, the "don't say mom or dad in public" nuts. I'll also include the administrators of the California juvenile justice sysyem, which raised Charlie Manson, and in which most boys are sodomised within the first 24 hours of custody (according to on of the system's own officers). Wake up and smell the coffee, that stuff just isn't working, as the subject of this blog demonstrates.
I totally agree that the incident is atrocious in several ways.
I end with a favorite saying of Gibbons:
"He who does not learn from history is destined to repeat it"
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Godless
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Feb 19 @ 7:24PM
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This in my opinion was a "Hate" crime! Created and started by religion! How he was dressed had nothing to do with it. If anything the kids laughed at that. It was him being gay and the hatred from religion that killed this boy!
If you weren't a woman, I'd ask you to marry me!
Do not the great liberal hearts bleed just as copiously for the poor tyke who was so driven by the angst of disenfranchisement, so preconditioned to murder by the violence prone media and popular music, so confused by the "If it feels OK it is OK" dogma
First off, that's not dogma. Dogma is religious speak. "If it feels OK it is OK" is left wing liberal no boundaries propaganda.
I can only assume you speak to me and others like me who accept gay people when you refer to liberal bleeding hearts... and you are wrong. I'm NOT a liberal in any sense of the word, I am CENTRIST. And, I DO feel compassion for the shooter - he is a product of his environment where he was taught to hate by parents, religions, adults in his life that never stopped him from that dogma, etc.
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signme
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Feb 23 @ 11:57PM
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Hereshannon said "they are being taught in the schools if their parents spank them they are being abused."
WHOA!!!!! I'm a teacher and I have never heard that in a school I've been in. In fact we discuss this all the time and part of the problem is that the parents DON'T spank their kids anymore! There is very little discipline in the some homes and the parents rely on the school to teach their kids right and wrong.
I had a class several years ago that I absolutely loved and we had more differences in that class than I've had in any other. We had a chinese-american student who could speak some chinese. We had a little girl from Puerto Rico who spoke limited english. We had a deaf child so we all learned sign language. We had a japanses translator for the deaf child. I fell and broke my hip and came back to school using a walker. One of my little girls fell off a ski lift and broke her leg and when she came back to school was also on a walker.
This group learned compassion and how special different people could be. I wish all children had a chance to be in a class like that.
Okay off my soapbox now.
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tokiohotel12
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Mar 5 @ 9:34PM
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Okay. I might not be as smart as some of you, and I obvisouly don't use HUGE ass words like you guys. However I would like to say. What this kid did, was a horrible thing to do. I have many gay friends. I think they are amazing. And if you're one of those people who think well dressing like a women when you're simply a man is wrong and you're not normal. Then what is normal? Where has the word "real" gone to? Jeffree Star is honestly one of my idols. I love him. He goes around dressing like a women not caring what other people think. That's a true man, loving yourself and truly being yourself without trying to be someone else. I had someone on my youtube page quoate " What has this world come to, women look like men and men look like women" Just because Bill kaulitz is prettier. If you're a homophobe. Just ignore it. So what if the dude had a crush on you? How can you hate someone for being who they are? You can't change how you feel. How can one person shoot an other just because he thinks he wasn't normal? Maybe he did it to feel less humiliated. I would be glad if a lesbian came up to me and asked to be my valentine. I mean I'm not a lesbian, but that would be amazing. There is nothign wrong with it. It's all fine. I usually would never say this becuase I don't believe in the death penalty. But this kid who killed Lawrence should be sentenced to death, if he hasn't already. Taking someones life beacuse you just don't like them is not acceptiable. People have to get used to the fact that not everyone is like you. And you're not normal. Lawrence was probally an amazing f***ing man. And he didn't even get to experience how great life could be becuase one idiot had to take that away from him.
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