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Some simple civics...

posted 7/18/2008 11:22:26 PM |
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  observed50

We've all seen it...over and over again..."how come the Democrats who control Congress, haven't delivered on any of their promises? They just promise to get elected, and then are no good do nothings."

I'm not a democrat...nor a repub...but a progressive populist who thinks the two major parties are simply, sadly, pathetic. But...are they pathetic in part because we don't have much of a clue as citizens how our government is supposed to work??

A simple majority in Congress guarantees you a couple things. One is that your party gets to chair committees, as well as 'chair' the House and Senate...i.e., you get to fill the leadership slots with your team.

Because you get to be the leaders, you get to determine the agenda of things, more so than when you're the minority party(s). So bills will be considered your party feels are important, and those considered important by the others might see the light of day, and might not. Rules of order will be enforced creatively to benefit your party leadership, while dismissing the meaningfulness of other parties.

BUTTTTTTTTT...and this is the big one...majorities in the two houses of the Congress are not able to do much of anything if all they have is a simple majority, not a veto-proof majority...i.e., 2/3 of both houses who vote consistently along party lines in the face of a presidential veto.

In other words...for the Democrats to accomplish what they said they would, they would either have to have a cooperative president (not this one), or a large group of the other party who vote against the head of their party, the president of the US...and that doesn't happen much, except when the cost of doing so is minimal.

Numbers wise in this Congress, that means instead of having 236 reps who are Democrats, there would need to be 290, and instead of 49 Senators, there would need to be 67. Such numbers would greatly increase the odds of an override of a presidential veto.

I realize in the world of partisan jibber jabber, its important to make another look impotent, but its also important to point out where the folks are who are clippin the nuts. For me, both parties in their fear-mongering, gave us Iraq, so they are for so many things, two sides to same rush we have in fear and chest-pounding. But, it gets under my skin how often people use political 'talking points' like weak Democrats to mistakenly point out weaknesses that are systemic for anyone in the same shoes.

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Comments:
buatbu

Jul 18 @ 11:41PM  
90 % plus of Congress gets re elected. We need term limits.
justsayyeah7

Jul 19 @ 12:29AM  
I agree with the way you point out how the system works. However, and this is the big however, these senators made campaign promises they knew they could never live up too. They knew they would not have a majority to override any presidential veto yet they made these promises anyway.

like you, I am not a democrat or a republican, but I do know lying when I see it. The candidates who won lied to get elected. They know the rules and yet made promises they knew they couldn't keep. Those lies are the reason they got elected and now people are complaining that they didn't honor those promises. Of course people who know the system know why they couldn't keep them. But it doesn't change the fact that people expect them to honor the promises they made. Whether by their fault or not, they have not lived up to those promises. So they just told the public what it wanted to hear to get elected while at the same time they knew what they were telling the public was never going to happen. All politicians do it and yet the public sticks up for them anyway.
SweetNapaGuy

Jul 19 @ 12:40AM  
these senators made campaign promises they knew they could never live up too.

They're politicians. If they told us the truth, we wouldn't elect them. We want them to lie to us.

This is not a Democratic thing. This is a politician thing.

Personally, I think that this shows the folly of nation-states AND democracy at this stage of human evolution. We haven't progressed far enough to handle societies of this size. Maybe another five-thousand years will get us to that point, but at this rate, it's not likely we'll make it that long.
legacy1

Jul 19 @ 1:44AM  
Great points....they-(dems) come up with ideas but are quickly shot down by the repubs...why because they didn't think of it first? It's stupid and that is what is tearing Michigan & our country apart with nothing ever getting done. Just f***in plain stupid!
redtigr

Jul 19 @ 8:51AM  
A timely blog for me; I just had this same discussion with my very best friend.

I'm constantly appalled and disgusted with the lack of knowledge about why things are the way they are and why almost nothing ever changes. It's both very simple and highly complex. The simple part has to do with our "disconnect" from our political/government process because we fail to see how we can affect change. After all, we get these people in office and then we have no control over them so why bother to vote for anyone anyway?

The complex part is has to do with our complacency and human nature:

1. We tend to be "lazy" - or one might say "efficient" - expending energy only for that which works for us. Government seems to work independently of us, so as long as we can live our lives without its impacting us much, why bother?

2. We tend to be blissfully ignorant. Again, why bother knowing about these people when there is no discernible cause and effect?

3. We tend to have the memory of gnats. We forget what didn't work because we want so much to believe that this time it will...

4. We have become anonymous. Whether we vote or not, life goes on. After all, as long as someone votes the majority candidates will be elected. It's all too big. Our governing systems (speaking worldwide here) are not designed for millions and billions of participants. The so-called globalization of economies - and therefore governing bodies - cannot possibly accommodate the disparate needs, desires, education levels, beliefs and cultures of billions of humans on this earth.
observed50

Jul 19 @ 11:04AM  
buatbu> Research shows that most people support term-limits BUT for their representative. Seems theirs is fine...its the other guy/gal who needs a limit. In a sense, note how its a movement to control human behavior that tends to do the same thing again and again no matter how poor the outcome...i.e., 'staying the course.'

sayyeah> I don't know really know what they promised, promised if elected, promised if...etc... What I do know is how much a minority in the country is trying to spin a story about group A's ineffectiveness when it is their own group, group B, making group A, ineffective. If lying is the issue with group A, it is compounded by group B's talking heads who create the propaganda lie of group A not following through. Politicians need to know the art of the lie, because it is constituents who want to be able to believe them, tell them and puff their chests....

napa> every once in awhile, I find myself wondering about how we think we can do this with such large organizations and such an ineffective species. We want lies. We tell lies. We want trained so we can lie better about why my stealing things from you is okay, but not vice versa. And then we think we can effectively govern such large collections of people who love masks, costumes, and the lie they hide...

legacy> I feel I've reached a point where I more and more see things as we live in the slop we invent. We'd rather follow than lead. We'd rather have somebody tell us what to do, how and when, so we don't have to have all the headaches and turmoil of making decisions. And we'd rather think our herd is right, than utilize critical thinking skills to tear asunder the herd's propaganda and other self-serving lies. As Tigger points out below, we want the 'efficiency' of others doing the tough things, and then making sure we don't have to walk further than 10 ft into the store door.

We can create awesome things, but we seldom do...
observed50

Jul 19 @ 11:23AM  
tigger> may I add a little to your analysis??

1.) Efficient - "which works for us"...as we all know who are of any age past 30, often what works and has the highest rewards are things we work on for quite some time. I've been working for three years to get a company up in West Africa, and I'm closer all the time. BUT, as a species, we pull towards efficiency easily, i.e., ..which works for us quickly and easily. If my favorite outlet for something says it, it must be true.

2.) I like your sense of social distance and effort to impact. Think of how each days 10s of thousands of children die. If we saw them up close, we'd act. We don't...we don't act.

3.) Gnat memory..I'm going to have to research that one...

4.) I just got back from my local gas station where I try to go on Sat mornings and hang out with the farmers in the area who come in and shoot the breeze until life calls them to work. I live in rural areas and small towns because I see them as the bedrock of democracies...its where people's sense of community involvement, sacrifice and commitment seem the strongest. I'm reminded of it all the time when I hear of the boards these guys serve on (local small banks, local coops, local electricity coops, etc) and the way they pitch in for each other. But we're still a species seeking ease, speed and will grab at all sorts of illusions if it seems it will yield for me a new elixir...
SallyF

Jul 19 @ 12:00PM  
People 'hear what they want to hear', and then call it promises---broken or otherwise. Spinning is now a recognized word, meaning something other than processing wool. (hm-m-m, 'pulled the wool over our eyes'; derivation, perhaps?)

The system is tedious, but Congress pulled together and overrode Bush's veto on the Medicare bill this week. Hurray! My fingers are tired from letter writing, but we all have our chosen causes :-)

Practicing listening skills here.....there's some interesting sharing of ideas here on MD.
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Some simple civics...