| Nov 6, 2007 @ 7:41 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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SunBabe
Posts: 11,887
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This is an issue that may become even more critical to be aware of as voting districts tighten their rules in the future -- in the absence of any kind of national registry (voter rolls, drivers license/registration, health and vehicle insurance, etc), people are going to have to think long and hard -- seriously -- about what state or district that they want to (or can) claim as their permanent home address.
Personally, I ran into some of the complications of being a semi-resident/semi-traveller when I spent 6 months living aboard a sailboat in the USVI...I could have voted (had I registered and been there during an election); before I could open a post office box, I had to present a faked-up "rental agreement" because I was physically located out in the harbor and dind't have a utility bill; I was counted in the 2000 US Census; I had to give up my Connecticut drivers license for a VI one and get new car insurance for the car I had there (and got in trouble because I had another car registered with a non-VI-compliant insurance company stateside -- insurance I had to maintain to keep the car legally registered at my other residence  -- the rules state that a person can't be covered by more than one company); I had to file my income taxes through the USVI, who keeps all the money and doesn't send any to the Feds, by law -- but is nortorious for taking up to 6 years to issue a refund  ); and all sorts of issues that snowbirds, fulltime RVers and liveaboard boaters have to think about..."homelessness" isn't only an economic thing. It affects your rights as a citizen.
RVers are blocked from voting
By BILL POOVEY, Associated Press Writer Tue Nov 6, 3:35 PM ET
CLEVELAND, Tenn. - When your home is the open road, where do you register to vote?
A total of 286 people who live full-time in their recreational vehicles were dropped from the voter rolls in one Tennessee county over the past two years because they did not have a genuine home address, only a mailbox. That has left them unable to vote in national or local elections.
What happened in Tennessee may be an extreme case, but an Associated Press review of laws and policies across the nation found that election officials sometimes make it difficult for the nation's thousands of devoted RVers to cast a ballot.
Tennessee and Montana, for example, do not allow voters to list a commercial address, such as a mailbox service, unless they live there. Florida requires a permanent, stationary home address, but gives election officials some leeway. In Texas, thousands of RVers had their right to vote challenged in federal court, though they ultimately won.
"Americans should not be disqualified from voting because of their lifestyle choice to travel," said Hedy Weinberg, director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Tennessee, which went to federal court Tuesday to challenge the purge of RVers in Tennessee's rural Bradley County. "For our state and election commission to purge them from the list is unfair and is unconstitutional and flies in the face of our democracy as we know it."
But some elections officials say that voters should have a real connection to the place where they are casting ballots, and that RVers are registering in certain states simply to avoid taxes. Some of them rarely, if ever, set foot in those states.
Many RV full-timers are registered in one of nine states that have no general personal income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. (The RVers are still subject to federal taxes.)
The 286 RV full-timers dropped from the rolls in Bradley County listed their home address as that of a mail-forwarding service in Cleveland, Tenn., called Mail Call U.S.A., which charges $120 a year to receive, maintain and forward mail. The purge began after Tennessee tightened the residency law in 2005.
David Ellis, the former Bradley County Election Commission director who started removing full-time RVers, said they have no connection to the area and are simply "dodging their responsibility to pay their fair share" of taxes.
Mail Call U.S.A. owner Alan Pinney said he has lost many customers. "They call up and say, `We are not going to renew our service. We are going to South Dakota or somewhere else,'" Pinney said.
Full-time RVers roam the country, often spending a few weeks at a time at RV campgrounds, state parks or friends' homes, where they can arrange to pick up their mail. Often, they pull over for the night in shopping center parking lots.
The Census says more than 105,000 Americans live full-time in RVs, boats or vans, though one RV group says the number is more like half a million. Because of their nomadic ways, pinning down their number with any certainty is difficult.
Similarly, it is hard to say exactly how many full-time RVers are unable to vote, since those who are turned down in one state can presumably go to another more willing to register them.
Some of the Bradley County RVers hold Tennessee driver's licenses and register their vehicles in Tennessee. But they otherwise have no permanent presence in the state.
cont.
[Edited on 11/6/2007 7:44 PM]
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| Nov 6, 2007 @ 7:42 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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SunBabe
Posts: 11,887
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cont.
Mike Bruner, 61, and his wife, Christine, have been living in an RV full-time since selling their home in Missouri in 1999. He was recently dropped from Tennessee's voter rolls after buying a mailbox in Bradley County in 2002 and using that address to vote in the 2004 presidential election.
Bruner acknowledged Tennessee's lack of an income tax was part of the attraction. But "I am a veteran and I fought for the freedom to vote," he said.
Bruner said he and his wife visit Tennessee probably twice a year and have come here to renew their driver's licenses.
Tennessee "in essence really gains from our choosing the state to be our home state," he said. "They gain the taxes we pay, sales taxes and revenues from new licenses plates and insurance also comes in there. We actually don't do any negative drag on the infrastructure of the state."
Another voter kicked off the rolls in Tennessee, retired Washington, D.C., policeman John T. Layton, sold his Maryland home in 2004 and signed up with Mail Call U.S.A.
Layton, 69, said his son and grandchildren live in Chattanooga. He said he wanted an income tax-free state, but never imagined he would lose his chance to cast a ballot. "I did research to make sure I have a constitutional right to vote," he said.
There is no national standard for voter residency. Many places require a genuine physical address or some intent to become a permanent resident. But the rules differ from state to state, in some cases from county to county.
The actual decision is often left up to a county election official.
"We're independent election officials. That gives us that final word," said Pat Hollarn, who as supervisor of elections for Okaloosa County, Fla., allows some RVers to register if they are not on the rolls elsewhere.
A federal judge in Texas sided with more than 9,000 RV full-timers in 2000 when county officials challenged their eligibility to vote. The RVers used a mail-forwarding service.
Their attorney, Larry York, said the judge appeared to be convinced that the RVers had nowhere else to vote. "If not here, where?" York said.
In South Dakota, Minnehaha County Auditor Sue Roust said many full-time RVers are registered in her state, and often list campgrounds as their home address, with as many as 1,100 of them at one site in Sioux Falls.
"A big concentration of RVers can throw an election," she said.
In Polk County, Texas, Tax Assessor Marion "Bid" Smith said a large number of RVers are registered in the rural community about 75 miles from Houston — enough to "swing an election, really" — even though some don't even visit once a year.
"I don't have a problem with it," he said. "Those people deserve to vote somewhere."
Doug Lewis, director of the National Association of Election Officials, predicted the RVers in Tennessee would win in court, noting that homeless people have been allowed to say they live under a bridge.
"If the voter says they are not registered anywhere else and not trying to vote anywhere else, historically they win those cases," Lewis said.
Sue Bray, a spokeswoman for the Ventura, Calif.-based Good Sam Club, which calls itself the world's largest RV owners organization, said there needs to be some kind of a national registration policy on RVers.
"They definitely are picking on the wrong crowd," she said. "You can't find a more patriotic, involved kind of group."
___
On the Net:
ACLU-Tennessee: http://www.aclu-tn.org
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| Nov 6, 2007 @ 9:19 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,618
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This isn't about voting, but I have to wonder how viable the RV lifestyle is going to be in the future. I think the price of fuel is going to put many of these RV'ers off the road. I'm already seeing a lot of them for sale around here, and when gas hits $4-$5 a gallon, that may be the end of RV's.
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| Nov 6, 2007 @ 9:47 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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SunBabe
Posts: 11,887
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If you see a great price on a clean and well-maintained one (good engine and transmission), please let me know 
I could see myself driving from point A to point B and parking it there (in a warm winter weather zone) for months at a time -- as opposed to wandering the hiways and byways constantly)...still cheaper than most seasonal rentals.
(Although I've been drooling over a sailboat -- a catamaran -- and keep hoping someone else buys it asap, before I do something impulsive.  )
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| Nov 6, 2007 @ 11:47 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,618
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How big would you like it to be?
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| Nov 7, 2007 @ 1:45 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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SunBabe
Posts: 11,887
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 24'-30' Class C would be the most practical, unless someone's practically giving away a Class A.
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| Nov 7, 2007 @ 3:14 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,618
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I have seen some great deals on class A's but those things suck up fuel so fast that I'm not sure any price is low enough. I'll keep my out for a nice C for ya.
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| Nov 9, 2007 @ 1:00 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,580
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I have considered doing the live aboard myself, at some time in the future. If I do, then I'll probably register the boat with a base port of call in Miami or Houston, so I could claim that as my state of residence. If the boat is the primary residence and it is registered in a port, then local residency is not a question. After all, if you pay property tax in a state and if the boat is the primary residence, then that settles any question as to residency.
BTW, you can get a really nice boat, at a fairly reasonable price. (I just looked at a 30' Cape Dory for less than $19,000 and while it is small for a live aboard, it is certainly possible.) Now, I realize that a sailboat can be expensive to own & maintain, but it certainly uses a lot less fuel than an RV.
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| Nov 9, 2007 @ 4:23 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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SunBabe
Posts: 11,887
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I'm trying to talk myself into an RV because I ran across a 36.5' liveaboard catamaran that's completely outfitted for Caribbean cruising -- and it's a great deal (for a cat) and it has me drooling like no other boat has in years (except the really good ones)...but it doesn't come with a crew or captain ~grin~ and there's no way I want to try sailing something like that alone. (Besides, half of sailing is maintenence...TWO diesels, two hulls, a mile of rigging and lines and an acre of sails to maintain is pretty much beyond me by myself, especially if something goes wrong -- not to mention the actual sailing, lol)
A 30 footer for a liveabord is probably the minimum -- better if you're in a slip though, with amenities (like regular shower, shore power, storage locker, nearby grocery, etc) -- awfully tight if you have long-term "company"...but still fun. 
If you document a boat, can't you call any city your home port (and claim residence there)?  My parents had Carson City, Nevada on theirs...got a few strange looks and a lot of comments, for sure.
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| Nov 9, 2007 @ 9:42 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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travelnfrog
Posts: 572
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Needless to say, this is a hot topic in the RVing forums. No, RVing isn't going away...some may change how they travel (staying in one place longer, for example) but the sales will be more from those who do it a couple times a year, not the full-timers. IMHO....
Since most full-timers can opt to move to another states mail service and establish residency, the only ones to lose are the gentleman that owns the service and those who have to keep TN as their home state for insurance, pension or other reasons.
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| Nov 11, 2007 @ 11:31 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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Say_Yes
Posts: 1,580
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If you document a boat, can't you call any city your home port (and claim residence there)? My parents had Carson City, Nevada on theirs...got a few strange looks and a lot of comments, for sure.
I'm not sure about the rules for registering a home port. I did a little looking online for that info a while back and what I found was a bit contradictory.
BTW, I agree with you on the live aboard. At 30 feet, that is just a bit too cramped for any level of comfort beyond a few days. A 36.5' cat would be much nicer, though as you said, a lot to handle by yourself. I certainly would not want to try it, but then again, I am not that experienced. Still, a nice cat at a good price would be very tempting. I can certainly see why it is of interest to you.
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| Nov 20, 2007 @ 4:05 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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RVerwolf
Posts: 3
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As a 3 year (almost) "fulltimer" ...I agree with what Froggi said above...Those of us who have chosen this "lifestyle" will persevere...staying longer between "fuel" runs...enjoying more...the very reasons we've chosen to be "Gypsies" to begin with.
It's "funny"( but not really)...I've been reading/studying the history of vagabond gypsies of the European Continent...and it was the governments (wherever they were) main objective to stop their wanderings...still is...but...no matter the "legislations" against them...they still have a" hardcore" element that wanders...where they want...when they want....and the governments "over there" still can't "control" them the way they'd like.
I see this whole "RV" thing the same way here these past few years...
for example:...I left the state of Washington because I was told, by a DMV worker that I've known awhile,...that come January,2008, I could not register a motorhome there...UNLESS...I had a permanent address...with proof that I actually dwelt on that piece of land and paid bills (utilities, taxes, etc.)...P.O. box addresses (as I've used these past 3 years) no longer accepted...I was told the "change" is due to the Patriot Act...uh huh...don't want "terrorists with RVs running amuck across the landscape"...It's all Bllsht!
They just want every little one of us in our own little hole where they can/will be able to control us...period!
...Fckdatsht!
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| Jan 6 @ 8:14 AM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards
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bevrice
Posts: 10,664
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I have a motorhome, and I am going to sell it, lol, unless I can find someone who wants to travel with me and drive that bugger. You know, unless you are going to drive somewhere and stay there, it is cheaper just to go first class and stay in a really nice hotel.
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| Jan 6 @ 7:45 PM |
Retirees: Snowbirds/RVers/Liveaboards |
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sweetgypsysoul
Posts: 56
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It's all in my name.
I like moving and living with what I really care about instead of hoarding mindless junk I have to dust and haul around.
Wasn't there a question about Bush's residency when he ran for office of Texas. Maybe that's a political thought, best for another forum heading, though.
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