| Dec 17, 2006 @ 2:24 PM |
To Pay or Not To Pay
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bevrice
Posts: 10,502
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Why did it bother you when that happened to you as you posted?
I date men who have manners, class, who like a woman to be a lady and they like being able to woo me, seduce me, court me. I started another thread on that, by the way.
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 2:39 PM |
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newfie6750
Posts: 1,625
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I was not insulted just shocked
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 2:50 PM |
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encorrgbl
Posts: 1,390
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Mho on this... They'd be insulted perhaps because they believe in a very clearly defined role that they think they should adopt to show respect and manners to a woman.
As Spicy mentioned, and I can certainly agree with, that the men saw Bev as a very classy lady because of how she handles herself, and believed that she deserved to be treated in a very courtious manner.
To not do so, to them, is perhaps an insult to such a woman. For that woman to ask them to allow her to pay, may be seen as an insult to them, not an insult to their manhood, but instead an insult to their honor (which basicaly they may feel they're being called a 'cad' and not treating a woman right, or that they don't know how to act in the role they have taken on).
There could be other reasons. I know that between age groups, and where you grew up, and what your parents taught you, or what you learned from one place or another, your expectations and belief struture in how things may, or should be run, can be different.
The only thing that makes me hesitant in something like this (in extending courtesy) is that someone gets mad about it all, because basically, allowing someone to do something for you, isn't them showing you you're a weak simpleton or a fool who can't take care of themself, it's more of a joy that you are with someone sharing time with them and you want to show them that by extending such a courtesy. (Sorry if that's beginning to sound babbly btw.)
If you get mad at someone attempting to be nice to you, or share some of that joy, then you make them feel foolish with your anger (Q: "Why are you mad at me? I only wanted to help..." A: "I don't need your help!" --- Thought: Why? Because you'll feel you owe me or something and that gives me power over you??? Thoughts for another thread I suppose...).
I've not met many people who've entered into situations where angers ever proven to make them look better, or make the situaion better by being angry, especially when someone is trying to be nice...
Again, the thoughts come back to communication and understanding. We all can take on a role, but does everyone understand in this day and age, what that role should be?
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 3:35 PM |
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bevrice
Posts: 10,502
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I think you are right, people have changed over the years. I have a daughter who used to think that if a boy paid for the dates that she would be obligated to him and he would feel like she owed him more than what she wanted to give him. I do know that lots of men feel that way as well, such a shame, no more romance, it is almost like them thinking they are buying you or you thinking that by them paying for the date that you are selling yourself to them.
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 3:37 PM |
To Pay or Not To Pay
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,901
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Being a lady (or a gentleman) shouldn't cost anything.
It's far more convincing, and genuine, if it doesn't come with a price tag.
Opening doors etc, is a matter of of manners, class, and showing respect for the other person. That has nothing to do with who has the money.
Expecting all your expenses to be paid, all the time, is not related to manners or class. It's merely clinging to obsolete tradition, and resisting change, usually motivated by the self-perceived benefits of doing so.
-MM
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 4:28 PM |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 22,465
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Expecting all your expenses to be paid, all the time, is not related to manners or class. It's merely clinging to obsolete tradition, and resisting change, usually motivated by the self-perceived benefits of doing so.
I'd definitely agree with that. Maybe flip a coin??? 
I don't think it needs to be, or should be, about who has the gold calls the tune...it's about seeing each other as equals, and in my favorite dreams, as equal partners - dancing, business, life. Oh, and other things too...
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 4:40 PM |
To Pay or Not To Pay
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The_love_Giant
Posts: 452
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I belive the guy should pay for the women
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 6:01 PM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,901
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I'd definitely agree with that. Maybe flip a coin???  Well, I think it generally defaults to the man, unless otherwise arranged. That's okay. That's older tradition hanging in there. The man certainly should pull at least his share of the weight too. More if he's making more $$$ than she is, although that's less likely in this era. (thankfully).
What I personally don't think is valid anymore is the "presumption" that the woman has no right to play any role in it whether she wants to or not, just because she's the "little woman", (so naturally she has no money of her own). That's just not so anymore. To me that mentality is demeaning to her, because it isn't the old days anymore and she's probably not flat broke (as in the old days). I believe both sides have equal rights, and either can play just as significant a role as they choose. But it's probably appropriate for the man to assume paying unless something else is established.
I've had women take me to dinner and buy me flowers etc, quite a few times though. And I don't resent it in the least. I really appreciate them asserting the gesture. Obviously the reverse is also true at other times.
-MM 
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 6:13 PM |
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razzired
Posts: 2,807
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And still we're hearing the default "I'm a lady, I'm not paying," and "If he's a gentleman, he'll automatically pay."
And again, I say bullshit.
I'm very happy that I date men in an age group who don't define a woman's character by how slow she is to reach for the tab. How sad.
MJ
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 6:18 PM |
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Snappygoddess
Posts: 5,742
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I think it's nice if the man pays for the first date.. after that, it should be discussed and agreed upon mutually BEFORE a second date who is going to pay.
I used to date a guy that loved my cooking so we would go to the store together and pick up ingredients for the meal.. he would pay and I would cook and we both would clean up the kitchen.
It's called sharing and no ones ego gets bruised 
It all depends on who you date and how you both feel about who's paying.. it shouldnt be a big deal
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| Dec 17, 2006 @ 6:22 PM |
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TiNkErGrRrRrR
Posts: 13,252
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It's called sharing and no ones ego gets bruised
My fella and I share in all the cooking..and cleaning up..we`d rather stay in and eat.. 
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 5:01 PM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,901
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But But.. What it the fella is the world's worst cook? 
-MM 
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 5:27 PM |
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travelnfrog
Posts: 511
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But But.. What it the fella is the world's worst cook? Call out and order in.......
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 9:43 PM |
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MusicMonster
Posts: 2,901
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Call out and order in.......
Now there's a SUPER idea Froggi..
Only then, we've gotta go back and figure out who pays! 
-MM
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 9:48 PM |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 11,588
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I say NOBODY pay.
Just run like hell and see if you can avoid getting cuffed.
Now THERE'S a memorable date! 
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 10:06 PM |
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sunchaser59
Posts: 506
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I can't believe this is even up for discussion but then like so many things...uhhh it is!
IMNSHO:
It should be and I'm sure will be handled by the two people involved...and they are truly the only two that matter, eh??
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| Dec 19, 2006 @ 10:10 PM |
To Pay or Not To Pay
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DiamondRain
Posts: 11,588
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If you go on a date with me (which ain't hardly likely), Im payin'. That's just the way it is. You need to sign an agreement in advance that you accept that and we will have it notarized together prior to the date.
And don't try that pullin' your purse out from under the seat thing when the check comes either. I've already arranged to have the waiter give the check directly to me. And I am much tougher than you, so don't get any crazy ideas either.
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| Dec 20, 2006 @ 12:02 AM |
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SensualGemini
Posts: 14,006
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.
...Who cares? ... It is her house, she cooked the meal and if she absolutely insists I pay; well, if I must... then okay. The tip can be discussed later.
Yep, we know who is washing the dishes...
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| Dec 20, 2006 @ 6:56 AM |
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Earl47
Posts: 1,396
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Oh, i guess i am old fashioned. I would want to pay the bill. Because if a woman, cared enough to be with me, i would feel, she made me feel needed. Now, if she instested to pay half, or the tip, i would just say, now if you want to, because it was nice of you to want to have dinner with me....Earl
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| Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:36 AM |
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razzired
Posts: 2,807
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And don't try that pullin' your purse out from under the seat thing when the check comes either. I've already arranged to have the waiter give the check directly to me. And I am much tougher than you, so don't get any crazy ideas either.
Sorry, I just thought this was funny. Not the idea, just the way you wrote it.
Anyway....I've called the restaurant before to give them my card number ahead of time, so no tab ever got to the table. Between this particular gentleman and me, however, the issue of who pays has become a game we both enjoy playing. It's fun, it's lighthearted, and we both take it as such.
People worry and obsess too much over such a little issue. There's more to being a "lady" or "gentleman" than whether you sit on your wallet or open it up.
MJ
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