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To Pay or Not To Pay


Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:44 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
hiriya


Posts: 1,298
Yep, we know who is washing the dishes..


Payment and tip together

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Dec 20, 2006 @ 10:02 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
MotownManiax


Posts: 7,922
I'm sure you mean what you say, MJ, but to the others out there, lemme tell ya a typical experience I've endured far more than I've wanted to.......

Met a woman for coffee at the local Barnes and Noble (first meeting) a couple years ago and we seemed to really hit it off. The first part of our conversation talked about dating in general and the financial aspect in particular, and she went on and on about how it's all unimportant to her; that she's not looking for a date to pay for everything, a sugar daddy, or someone to "take care of her". I let her pontificate for about 20 minutes so I could be absolutely clear about her stance.

She then mentioned how much she loves seeing musical theater but lamented that most of the men she dates hated going. I told her I love seeing musicals, and I'm sure one was coming up at the local theater; I just need to check the schedule and get back to her. She said great, it'd be a nice second "date" for us. Well, sure enough, 42nd Street was coming to town in about a month so I contacted her, giving her the date, time, and cost of the tickets (they were $55 each if I remember). I then told her we were going dutch, right, and I never heard from her again. It was like she did a 180 and completely dropped off the face of the earth....lol.

Many women say they are not interested in who pays and don't buy into dating stereotypes, but I've found the truth to be otherwise.


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Dec 20, 2006 @ 10:27 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
razzired


Posts: 2,807

I can't speak for anyone else but me. And I don't always, 100% of the time, share the check or even make the offer. I do it often enough, though, to know that I'm not taking advantage of anyone and that's important for my own peace of mind.

But I do know I have never dated a man contingent upon his ability to pay for dinner or anything else, and I've never been insulted when my offer to share the check has been accepted. He's not less of a gentleman in my eyes because he allowed me to put money on the table, too.

But, that's me. My streak of independence and stubborness and hard headed-ness is part of who I am, and the men I date know that and either work with it, work around it, or stop going out with me.



MJ
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 8:06 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
Nette_TN


Posts: 82
I've dated only one man since I divorced almost six years ago. That relationship lasted almost four years. At no time whatsover when we went out to dinner, concerts, football games, would he allow me to pay.

I did try one time to pay for dinner. He was offended and asked me if I didn't think I was worthy of being treated a lady. It is about culture, different values for different people. No right or wrongs. Personally, I love being treated like a lady. But, I in other ways through making him dinner, small gifts, etc. treated him the gentleman he was.

And Music... I know at some point in our past we've met... I agree with you on that. Now if I can figure out where and when... --Nette
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:14 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
SensualGemini


Posts: 13,986
...Well, there you go; the measurement of relationship longetivity has nothing to do with who pays... so, whatever works for you.

.
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:32 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
julia143


Posts: 1,549
I am soooo not going to argue if you want to pay for dinner.
but won't blink twice if you ask me to go dutch..
Will however wonder what's wrong with you if you ask me to pay.
If I asked you out to dinner...I would pay for it.
You ask me out...I expect you to pay for it.
JMO
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:42 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
DiamondRain


Posts: 12,256
It doesn't offend me if a woman offers to pay. I just don't let her do it.

And if we have to wrastle 'bout it, so be it. I'll end up winnin' anyway so make it easier on both of us and just accept it. Don't make me have to whip yer butt.
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 9:58 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
sunchaser59


Posts: 506
Depends on the situation, of course.

Ahhhh, the good 'ol days when this would have never even been brought up. When men were men and... uhhhhhh I forget the rest.
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 10:08 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
Nette_TN


Posts: 82
Diamond... A Sweet posting!! A gentleman that a lady would be honored to date.
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 10:56 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
violette1967


Posts: 1,960
I honestly don't ever remember a time when I had to pay for my own meal when out on a date. If a man is asking me out, I am assuming he is paying.

I would not have a problem paying for my own meal. It has just never come up.

Times are changing I guess....


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Dec 20, 2006 @ 11:50 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
MusicMonster


Posts: 2,901
Times have changed pretty dramatically. It's not really about who can afford to pay, or anyone being cheap, (at least in most cases), and I don't think it usually becomes an issue or an argument. It's a lot more about equality and independence. Whether we like it or not, she is our equal now. Personally, I like it. Is anyone ready to state that women are still not equal to men? The traditional default role of the past was in fact for the man to pay for everything all the time. But again, there was a very valid reason it was that way, he controlled all the money, and for all intents and purposes she didn't have any. So it was a financial consideration, not about romance or wooing or manners. It was about who "could" pay, and she simply couldn't.. That's not the case anymore.

Now if she makes $100,000 a year as an executive, and he makes $35,000 as a steel-worker, (as one example), there really is no logic in him picking up all the bills all the time just because he is the male. And usually the modern woman doesn't want him to. Yet old tradition, if we were to stick to it, would still dictate that. Even older tradition says women have no right to vote! Because they are not men.

I've never gotten into an argument with a lady about who pays for anything. That would be just plain silly. But if they want to assert their relatively new-found independence and be self-sufficient as so many do now, and that's how they wish to express it, who am I to deny them that privilege? Because it is their right to be and feel equal. And they are making a statement of based on personal pride. I'm not about to try to stuff them back down into the old box they were stuck in for so long, or to try to take away their independence. That's only being macho!

Hey, there are a lot of women who own their own homes now, lock-stock and barrel. Yet, there still are a lot of men who feel it's not supposed to be that way, that they should have to be married to "a man" before they can do something "financially assertive" like that. That's among the silliest things I've ever heard. But it relates directly to this conversation. Things are very different now, and they should be. We've come a long way since those tired old times.

-MM




[Edited on 12/21/2006 12:01 AM]
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Dec 20, 2006 @ 11:54 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
sweet5red


Posts: 13,107
It doesn't offend me if a woman offers to pay. I just don't let her do it.

And if we have to wrastle 'bout it, so be it. I'll end up winnin' anyway so make it easier on both of us and just accept it. Don't make me have to whip yer butt.
Now that sounds promising.. ** giggle Sweet N Louisiana
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Dec 22, 2006 @ 5:54 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
MusicMonster


Posts: 2,901
Nette said:
He was offended and asked me if I didn't think I was worthy of being treated a lady. It is about culture, different values for different people. No right or wrongs. Personally, I love being treated like a lady.
Nette, you have every right to be treated like a lady. Clearly though it was HIS impression that whether or not you paid, had something to do with your worth, with you being a lady, or not being a lady and with how he should treat you. But it doesn't! Consider the logic in that thinking. It's really pretty far out there. He was clearly old-school. Whether he paid or you paid in any given circumstance had nothing to do with you being worthy, or not worthy, of anything. It's merely a matter of finance, a jingling in the jeans, little coins and bills, nothing to do with human qualities.

Where unless otherwise discussed it typically defaults to the man to pay, at least initially, it isn't carved in stone anywhere. And many women in this era want to pull their own weight, due to that sense of equality. If they choose to do that, I believe it's appropriate. Why try to deny them that? Heck, we could even end up with a female President. Women are making their mark in many new ways. They're right up there with the guys now. And we're better for it IMHO.

-MM


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Dec 22, 2006 @ 11:58 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
Nette_TN


Posts: 82
Music, I understand your thinking, and in fact I can agree with your thinking too..

But, in the end, it was like you said, our raising. My father and brothers are exactly the same way, as far as being the one to pay for outings. It's just the way it is, and like I said "no rights or wrongs". There are many other ways for a lady to spoil and show her gratitude. And, I don't mean sexually. I know the guy I dated loved my homecooked meals far better than any restaurant he treated me to.

It really doesn't come down to money. Some men want/need to treat. And, the gentleman I dated grew up very poor and had to provide for his siblings at a very young age. He did well financially as an adult, and it's something that he wanted/need to do...

And still, I happen to like that mindset. I'm a homebody and nurturer and in those ways I did/gave what felt right and good for me to give as well.
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Dec 22, 2006 @ 3:26 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
MusicMonster


Posts: 2,901
Well Nette, if that was the comfort level you two established and it worked well for all, then that's the way to go. As I mentioned early on, whatever works best for the two individual parties involved. I just don't believe having that option available to the woman, if that's what she wants to do, is in any way demeaning, wrong or disrespectful to either party.

The thing that troubled me a little though is that he asked you if you were not in fact 'worthy' of being treated like a lady, because you offered to share expenses, as though if you did so, he would not treat you properly. I can see no relationship between those two things, and nothing regarding mere money which would affect how you should be treated.

But I do completely understand what you're saying too.

-MM

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Dec 22, 2006 @ 3:56 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
DiamondRain


Posts: 12,256
You could put bamboo shoots under my fingernails and light 'em.

I'm still payin'
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Dec 22, 2006 @ 4:16 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
loisday


Posts: 1,539
Can't we just share? Aren't we both on the date? Or do you just want to go on without me?
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Dec 23, 2006 @ 6:49 AM To Pay or Not To Pay    
painter007


Posts: 12,941
I have offered to pay but believe if he asks he should pay.......
Check the blog I wrote in regards to this.....
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Dec 23, 2006 @ 1:27 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
Say_Yes


Posts: 2,061
I am old fashioned in this area, as it is the way I was raised. My father would roll over in his grave if I were to ask a woman out and then expect her to pay for anything. Okay, if she does the asking, then me may discuss it, but in truth, I feel much more comfortable paying.

There is a downside to this though. A few years back, I was dating a pretty special woman that lives very close to me. She had substantially more money than I do and she was accustomed to a lifestyle that I could not afford. She always wanted to pay, as she knew the difference in our finances, but I could not deal with that. I guess I was too insecure, but being a "kept man" does not appeal to me. In the end, it cost me the relationship.
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Dec 23, 2006 @ 1:37 PM To Pay or Not To Pay    
robodad


Posts: 9,248
I've been teasing her on the phone, so now I'm going to have to pay (for it) when I visit.
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