| Feb 20, 2006 @ 6:21 PM |
Childfree
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sissycat411
Posts: 1,248
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It's simply a choice....doesn't need to be explained or defended......except to someone you might be considering inviting into your life.....as a life mate...... 
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 6:41 PM |
Childfree |
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Magickman
Posts: 128
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Sorry to obfuscate, LSU 79,
Here is a definition of pro-natalist, from Wordspy.com:
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pronatalist adjective. Of or relating to policies or actions that encourage couples to have more children.
Example Citation:
"In the United States, birth rates have been below replacement [level] for 25 straight years...'Pronatalist' policies, such as the newly enacted $500-per-child tax credit in the United States, are important, but the results are uncertain."
—Ben Wattenburg, "The Population Explosion Is Over", The New York Times Magazine, November 23, 1997
Notes:
Here's the earlist citation (which, happily, also demonstrates the opposite word — anti-natalist):
"There has been a striking turnaround in many Idcs' official attitudes to increasing population. A few (eg, Cameroon, where birth control is illegal and family allowances are designed to push up the birth rate) are still pronatalist. Most are now anti-natalist."
—"The reproduction function," The Economist, January 8, 1977
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 6:48 PM |
Childfree
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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Whether or not you have children is irrelavent. Let me say this another way. This speaks to the very core of my statements and to your character. A lack of good choices on the part of those who pick and have chosen mates that are not good with children speaks to (YOUR) decision making as someone who is plague with making bad decisions. Take responsibilities for your own actions as well as the bad choices (YOU) make when choosing a mate. This is why you are divorced or separated right? Because you made a bad choice in a mate and things didnt workout. Or maybe it is your ex who has actually made the bad choise in you. Of course this excludes those who's mates are deceased. Excusses are the first sign of incompetence. I find very few people who have said I have made or I make bad decisions. But I can never find a shortage of those who blame if and eveyone else for (their) short comings. I was thinking, has it ever occured to you that you may have some issues that may need to be ironed out?
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 6:59 PM |
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branddrgn
Posts: 42
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answering the big question: Maybe they are defensive because they see your reasoning, sound as it may very well be as a threat to their own flesh and blood: THEIR children.
Lets use a really poor example because I'm kinda busy and can't come up with a better one offhand.
I don't care if you smoke pot. In fact I think it should be legalized and sold similar to cigarettes (please don't start a subthread on this), BUT if you bring it into my home, I'm going to get very defensive, and most likely break of contact with you for a while if not for good.
Suggestion: don't pursuse potential relationships with women who have children...find someone who shares your opinions on the subject.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 7:25 PM |
Childfree
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Silvertongue62
Posts: 6,932
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It doesnt matter what the real threat is. Reality usually takes a back seat to those who forfeit deductive reasoning.
This morning was my first day back in the carolinas and I had the opportunity to go by one of the dental offices just to check up on everyone and to do my once a month public relations BS. While I was there, there was a woman there who had bought in her seven year old son to have some fillings done. As son as the boy got in the chair he started screaming like a mad man. The mother immediately got up and ran to the back in defense of her son. The boy was crying because he didnt want the doc to spray water in his mouth. By now the mother wanted to fight because she said they were hurting her son. Never mind the fact that the boy has brand new teeth with more cavities than I have car keys. Thats the real threat bad parenting. Now this is the example that the mother is setting for her child. So I politely told the mother about the osha and hippa regulations and she then jumped bad with me. Then I realized it was definately time to dismiss this woman and her child. Now if the story was told on this thread I am sure it would read alot different. So now this young child doesnt get the medical care he needs because of the mom who is a bad parent. Nevermind the fact that because the mother hasnt been a mopther by making the child stand a little closer to his tooth brush he has 11 cavities and needs a root canal in one at the tender age of 7. Technically we were supposed to report this to child protective services but that would have made us the bad guys.
So the moral of this story is, It's not always everyone else. Sometimes it is you !
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 7:37 PM |
Childfree |
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Magickman
Posts: 128
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The Childfree Lunatic Fringe
There is something called the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, (VHEMT) which, by the way, I do not subscribe to. The VHEMT, on the lunatic fringes of the Childfree organizations, is in favor of humans ceasing reproduction, and becoming extinct. I think they are over the edge.
Here is a Wikipedia article about VHEMT.
Voluntary Human Extinction Movement
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, known by its acronym VHEMT (pronounced "vehement"), is a deep ecology organization that endorses the voluntary extinction of the human race. Their motto, "May we live long and die out," briefly summarizes their goal. The organization does not advocate murder, suicide, abortion, or any violent methods; instead, it advocates the proposal that all humans refrain from reproducing. Such a position is not uncommon within the worldview of deep ecology, which views humanity as being on equal moral grounds with the Earth's biosphere.
The movement recognizes two levels of support. "Volunteers" are people who believe in the VHEMT goal of eventual human extinction, and have decided to have no children (or no more, if they already had children when they joined the movement) in order to further that goal. "Supporters" are people who do not believe that the human species should become extinct, but believe that a reduction in global reproduction rates would be beneficial. They too have decided to have no (or no more) children. Supporters' views might be more in line with the Population Connection movement or the Negative Population Growth movement.
Note: some prefer the motto "May we live well and die out."
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 7:45 PM |
Childfree
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EyesofBlue72660
Posts: 12,833
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THE BIG QUESTION? Why do married and childed people, who are the considerable majority of humanity, get so excited and defensive in the presence of alternative lifestyle practitioners?
I think it is because a considerable majority wouldn't give up the joys parenthood has brought them for all the money in the world. Society tends to put pressure on people about other things as well....marriage, becoming a homeowner, being a pet owner, etc., etc. People want to think that what has brought them happiness will bring others happiness. Unfortunately, a lot of times, they fail to see that what is right for one may not be right for another.
What is so threatening about about a childfree bachelor?
Personally, I see nothing threatening about a bachelor that has no children. LOL....usually, my comment is, "Smart man!!". Of the two, I have to admit that I'd be more leery of a man that has never been married over a man that has chosen to not have children! For whatever reasons, you made this decison and you have my respect for not succombing to ribbings, guilt trip attempts and basically, the attitude of "Try it, You'll like it". If a person is self-reflective enough to know that they do not want children, my hat is off to them. It's not like the child can be returned for a refund.
And, of course, is childfree a handicap in the dating and mating game?
It all depends upon what the other person is looking for. I would guess that it is more of a handicap if the other person still has children at home. I do have to agree that while raising children, it does help to be involved with someone that is/has been there.....though, even that is not a guarantee!
I say, stick to your convictions and don't worry about what others think. One of three things can happen: 1) At the end of your life, you will be content knowing you made the right choice; 2) At the end of your life, you may question whether you made the right choice (hopefully, that will be all it is, just a musing); or, 3) You may meet someone between now and the end of your life that causes you to change your mind about your choice so far---which means no harm, no foul as you would be able to get married and/or become a parent.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 7:56 PM |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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or #4-at the end of your life you could end up with no one to care if you had a life or not.
That certainly may not mean anything to some but it is refreshing being a parent knowing your children are there to care for you like you did your own parents.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 7:59 PM |
Childfree
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sissycat411
Posts: 1,248
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such as the newly enacted $500-per-child tax credit in the United States
Could it be that the underlining emotion here is not whither you decides to have children or not....but resents, feeling, you in some way...are paying for others, who do chose to?? I dont know,
If a person decides to or not to have children, its their choice....but if someone resents others choice (like having children) and feels compelled, to point out their superior choice..(not having any)..yes I can see where that might offend others.....Maybe you have some underlining issues, you need to deal with.....out side the fact you chose not to be a father.....just my opinion from reading your postings....
We tend to project....what we feel....maybe children really irritate you, on many levels.....Only you know why you made the decission you did...
[Edited on 2/20/2006 8:05 PM]
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 8:17 PM |
Childfree |
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EyesofBlue72660
Posts: 12,833
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or #4-at the end of your life you could end up with no one to care if you had a life or not.. Friends and family can cover that. Having children is no guarantee that they will care "if you had a life or not".
That certainly may not mean anything to some but it is refreshing being a parent knowing your children are there to care for you like you did your own parents This also has no guarantee. Besides that, there are some parents that feel the last thing they want to be is a "burden" to their child(ren) by depending on them to put their life on hold (which could possibly even mean interrupting/disrupting the grandchild(ren's) life) to take care of an elderly/sick parent.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 8:41 PM |
Childfree
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Excuse me eyesof blue for my post but..
Where is the guarantee you will be content knowing you made the right choice?
or your numbers two and three are listed as "may" happen,
Are those guarantees?
There are no guarantees in life.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 8:58 PM |
Childfree |
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sjpinatl
Posts: 671
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I think it is because a considerable majority wouldn't give up the joys parenthood has brought them for all the money in the world.
Who told you this? I learned in college that the largest percentage of parents, when polled when their kids had reached college age said they would not have children if they did it all over again. This is not necesarily because they are selfish or did not enjoy their kids. It is because of hardships the children may have gone through.
I personally would never want to bring a child into this god-awful world. Look around you. I have volunteered at children's hospitals and the Ronald McDonald House though.
Also, being a great parent is a terrific feat, but just because you have had unprotected sex, that does not make you less selfish than those who choose not to. In some cases of unplanned pregnancy where a child cannot be taken care of even close to properly, it is more selfish of the people who decided to be negligent in planning for their baby. One form of BC alone does not cut it over the years. And that is very selfish not to plan properly for your child.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 8:58 PM |
Childfree
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TiNkErGrRrRrR
Posts: 13,792
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Quoting Silver here::So now this young child doesnt get the medical care he needs because of the mom who is a bad parent. Nevermind the fact that because the mother hasnt been a mopther by making the child stand a little closer to his tooth brush he has 11 cavities and needs a root canal in one at the tender age of 7"
Do you know that a mother loves despite.......the things... She endures, she suffers, she does without, and she eats last, She gets her hair done last, her nails may never be manicured, She saves all her money so that she can take her children to That movie or amusement park everyone else goes to. She’s up when all are sleep, she is up before day Always thinking, not about herself, but her children Are you a Mother or a Shell, A Shell is nothing but a hollow “something” That is of no lasting purpose or use to anyone or itself If you are a Shell, then you aren’t a Mother Because a Mother isn’t hollow and she has a purpose— To take care of her children—first Are you a Shell or a Mother?
Sorry but it seemed appropriate.. 
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 9:03 PM |
Childfree |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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I learned in college that the largest percentage of parents, when polled when their kids had reached college age said they would not have children if they did it all over again.
What college on earth did you attend?
The largest percentage? I have to question that.
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 9:07 PM |
Childfree
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TiNkErGrRrRrR
Posts: 13,792
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I learned in college that the largest percentage of parents, when polled when their kids had reached college age said they would not have children if they did it all over again.
If I could I`d still be having kids...And if I had it to do all over again..I would...
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 9:09 PM |
Childfree |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Looks like were a minority TiNkErGrRrRrR. 
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 9:29 PM |
Childfree
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EyesofBlue72660
Posts: 12,833
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Jankia....I totally agree, there are no guarantees in Life. But I'm guessing there is more of a guarantee of unhappiness in doing something you really felt you shouldn't, yet did, then there would be in going with your convictions of not doing something you felt wasn't for you.
However, I believe that Magickman was originally questioning why he seemed to be getting bad vibes from people because of his decisions...and if not bad vibes, at least the attitude that he is missing out on something.
or #4-at the end of your life you could end up with no one to care if you had a life or not.
The above sounds so negative and comes across as, "Take my word for it, if you don't have children, you'll be sorry!".
Why do some people think that others should follow their lead in certain matters? As I said, it's not just decisions about having or not having children. Homeowners tell renters they are throwing their money away; pet owners tell petless people that they are missing a special kind love in their life; married people (or parents/family) lecture single people about the downfalls of being "alone". As I said, People want to think that what has brought them happiness will bring others happiness. This is not always the case!!!
I feel if someone makes a decision that they feel is right for them, others should not make negative and/or derogatory remarks, especially if an opinion was not asked for!!! And if an opinion is asked for, I believe it will be listened to with greater consideration if it is not delivered with a "looking down the nose" or "you'll be sorry" attitude.
What college on earth did you attend?
The largest percentage? I have to question that.
I'm with Jankia on this one.....and if not the college, I have to question who the heck was polled!!! Is raising children tough? YES! Do parents make sacrifices? YES! Would most parents make those sacrifices again? WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 2/20/2006 9:36 PM]
[Edited on 2/20/2006 9:36 PM]
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 9:57 PM |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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The above sounds so negative and comes across as, "Take my word for it, if you don't have children, you'll be sorry!".
I did use the word "could" not the word will.
Maybe because I am a father I just could not see the meaning to some of what he posted.
Of course, I dont see the meaning in alot of forum posts either! 
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 11:11 PM |
Childfree
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JesterDrawers
Posts: 10,902
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It's not like the child can be returned for a refund.
And the sign said: No In At The Womb! 
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| Feb 20, 2006 @ 11:16 PM |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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And the sign said: No In At The Womb!
Ah Jester...the groaner of the day!!!
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