| Jul 10, 2006 @ 9:35 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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irisheagle
Posts: 2,541
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Here's One for you all to Chew on! lol.
When Is excuse after excuse for not leaving an abusive relationship,
become enough?
When does, being hit, shoved, things thrown at you,
being injured, start pushing the limits and become ENOUGH?
i'd give details but then i'd have to Shoot ya. lol
TOAO
jim
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 10:07 PM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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Apparently it's not yet enough for my neighbor. She's a highly intelligent, well-travelled, experienced woman who even knows what it's like to be in a good relationship...and I've never heard so many excuses -- not reasons, but friggin' excuses. 
It's so sad...but it's her life she's wasting ~sigh~
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 10:10 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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lacyvsq
Posts: 6,161
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Never...but suddenly it will become too much.
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 11:09 PM |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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^^^ Right on Lacy
When it is her decision to leave and no one else's. Women who stay in those types of relationships have major issues to work thru. Kind of like going soul searching and it's only when she has reached that place (and only she can decide where and when that place is) that she will make a change.
It's her decision to make and no one else's. The only thing you can do is be supportive of her and encouraging. It takes a woman numerous tries before she is finally "successful" in leaving an abusive partner. See Stolkholme syndrome for reference on that as part
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 11:21 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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greenizenora
Posts: 629
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WickedWench couldn't be more right.
Just one thing. . .we shouldn't assume it's a woman Irisheagle is talking about.
There are plenty of men in the same situation except most of them are too embarrassed/ashamed/mortified/whatever to talk about it.
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 11:37 PM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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It's broken my heart to have seen this very thing happen...and my bet is that it's FAR more prevelant than we'll ever know 
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| Jul 10, 2006 @ 11:49 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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irisheagle
Posts: 2,541
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greenizenora your So right, as My Youngest son is in Somewhat
of that kind of relationship, well even married, but i hear she' s getting better.
But in this Particular case i was thinking along the lines of women.
But WickedWench of course it is her decision but when kids
are involved and getting caught up in it too, isn't that considered
negligent by any judge if they don't get help asap? And wouldn't that
create a certain amount of responsibility to act quickly on removing them
from that environment?
If you've never seen any of the so called abuse,
could it be just a Ploy to get attention?
Personally if i knew of such goings on i'd Take a Shovel And
Dig his Grave Myself. 
If i knew Without a Shadow of doubt it had accured.
TOAO
jim
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 12:42 AM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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But WickedWench of course it is her decision but when kids
are involved and getting caught up in it too, isn't that considered
negligent by any judge if they don't get help asap? And wouldn't that
create a certain amount of responsibility to act quickly on removing them
from that environment?
I'm going to step really carefully here. First of all I'm assuming you're American? I'm Canadian Our laws are different from yours to a degree I believe.
First of all it's not the woman's fault she is being abused so for a judge to hold her personally responsible would be like victimizing her twice so no I don't "believe" that is the case. The real criminal here is the male (Assuming it's a male doing the abusing). He is guilty of subjecting the children to this, not her. He is responsible for his actions, not her. He is also responsible for abusing the children if this is what is occuring. It's not her fault. She isn't committing the violence. It's him.
Judges do see that component of it.
Another aspect of this is that in cases of specifically wife assault, the man has all the power. What I mean by this is he has the $$$ he has the bank book he has the car,,,,,he's got everything and has tight control of it.The abused woman is also in situations where he has isolated her from any or all supports she might have had. Meaning she no longer has friends because he has "browbeaten" her that she isn't "good enough" and somewhere deep inside, she believes this to be true. This isn't always the case but often times it is. This makes it very impossible for the woman to leave, even if there are wonderful friends (like Sunbabe) and or family who know about it. The very very real threat of him coming to find her and beat her worse will stop her from leaving. His threats of taking the children away from her will stop her from leaving. His telling the children that he will kill their mother if she tries to leave will stop her from leaving. It is typically not only physical violence that stops a woman from leaving but financial (for some) and emotional crippling. Despite the fact the woman may seem secure on the exterior, deep inside she has severe self-worth issues. Somewhere deep inside her she stays because she has been told repeatedly she is not "worth" anything and after being told that infinitum, she believes it. It's most insidious in nature and a form of brain washing if you will. Women who have very healthy self images don't tolerate that at all but a woman who, for reasons of childhood abuse (witnessed as a child and it's a "norm" for her, or she was beaten by her own father/mother/brother etc, victim of incest or sexual assault etc) has potential to be victimized again as an adult. There is some degree of conroversy over this aspect of whether a woman with low self esteem is a contributing factor but my experience has lead me to believe it's true. So you're not looking at just dealing with the "adult" component but the "child" aspect as well.
The fact that there are children involved is in no way her fault. This thought puts her again in the role of being responsible for something she has no control over. It's purely and completely the man's fault and why should she be held accountable for his actions? Thats sort of like saying it's her fault he beats her. Doesn't work that way and no judge I've ever heard of would hold her responsbile for this. If anything the father's parental ability would be called into question because he has shown clearly he isn't responsible and has harmed them. Last I checked there was actually going to start being cases of where not only was the father's ability to parent being investigated but it ran concurrent with assault charges? Makes sense to me.
The blame for this lies solely with the man. The woman is a victim completely...it's not her beating on the kids. It's him. She is no more able to defend herself from him than the children are.
But one day....when it's "her" time to respond .....she will. If he doesn't kill her first. According to FBI statistics, 30% of female murder victims in 1990, the last year for which statistics are available, were killed by their husbands or boyfriends. That is approximately 3000 women
Here in Canada we are very progressive about this. If I were to call the police for a partner that is abusing me? I don't lay the charges. The police do automatically. This can go both ways but the reason police lay the charges and not the woman is because they realize that the woman may very well be coerced into dropping them. We also have special courts set aside to deal with spousal abuse. Testimony is filmed by court reps and then played ..to save the woman from having to repeat it over and over. Very progressive in many ways but our stats for abuse have remained the same.
Sunbabe...You're correct..Unfortunately
http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/
Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.4
[quote]Nearly 25 percent of American women reported being sexuall
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 1:44 AM |
When is Enough........Enough
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irisheagle
Posts: 2,541
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The real criminal here is the male (Assuming it's a male doing the abusing). He is guilty of subjecting the children to this, not her. He is responsible for his actions, not her. He is also responsible for abusing the children if this is what is occuring. It's not her fault. She isn't committing the violence. It's him.
Judges do see that component of it.
Ok, i guess i wasn't thinking so much of how the woman may not
Have control as some of the ones i've encountered have actaully had the
control, so to speak.he makes the money, she controls it, somewhat, has her own car, and so on. but yea your right, it is his fault so i get what your saying,
completely.
And yes i am in the US.
TOAO
jim
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 3:40 AM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 10,952
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enough is enough when you finally realize that you used to love your body you used to love yourself you wasted so much time taking blame for things you never did wrong, you were hit and believed tons of lies and perhaps even cheated on, you became a hermit and let the curvy almost slender 148 pounds you'd worked so hard to become become a dumpy 170 pounds because of all the ice cream you ate to comfort yourself after the nasty things he said about you, you wouldn't go to school for two weeks straight because you were afraid he was going to hurt you, you'd alienated all of your friends to base your life around trying to make your relationship with him work when all he did was bitch, lie and appease, you listened to him laugh with his friends while he told you he was too depressed to talk to anyone, you let him tell you you were controlling his life and not letting him be himself over and over and over until it just wore you down and you just tried to commit suicide...
enough is enough when you spend three years trying to impress his mother who has no reason to dislike you and he won't do anything to try and change her mind. enough is enough when he makes you do all the work for the relationship and pisses and moans when it gets bad. enough is enough when it's three years of this same behavior.
it's getting to the point of being able to realize that enough is enough that is hard. it's getting to the point of being able to realize that you don't need or want him to be with you that's even harder.
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 5:54 AM |
When is Enough........Enough
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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LGQ9 just stopped by to give ya a hugg ... been thru that myself and its a tought road to walk stay strong
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 6:51 AM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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luvshorses644
Posts: 1,571
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LGQ.. plenty of {{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s.... You made the decision and I am proud of you for doing so. I cannot help myself but to say something here...
This thread is so in a time frame of deja vu for me to read. My daughter was in a relationship for 7 years with a "boy" (I refuse to call him a man, perhaps f-face would be the best term) who was a paranoid schizophrenic (was diagnosed, but because he was going to medical school to become a foot therapist could not get medication as that would signal the medical board he should not be around patients in case he snapped - see where this is going???).
My daughter left school, followed him to where he was going, got a job, went to school part-time, took care of the house, eventually married him because of the mind games he played with her.. ("if you really loved me, you would....). Everytime she wanted to leave, he would tell her she was his life (yeah, without her he was gonna have to work someday) and he would "kill himself" (please, the only person he did love was himself). My daughter is not stupid, in fact, she is now going for her Masters, but this "it" had her so emotionally abused that she literally could not think straight. He also hit her and physically hurt her at time and when I would ask, she would make up phoney excuses. Cut to the end.. she came to live back home so he could do his residency in NY (he had to live in a dorm) and the time she was away from him, she actually saw how abnormal their marriage was and eventually left him. The day she threw the wedding ring at him in my foyer, he walked out, laid in my driveway and begged me to run over him.. yeah, like I wanted to be in jail now that she was leaving????
And my niece called me last night and was hysterical .. she is finally had enough of the "it" she had a baby with 3 years ago and is doing the whole thing my daughter did. Only this "it" knows better than to be physically abusive .. so again, the emotional control. He has 2 other children with other gals he used. Again, long story short.. she is coming to live with me for the next few months....yay!!! My babies and a baby!!!
Enough is enough when your spirit, your soul, becomes so weary that you can't face another day with joy. You lay in bed asking to just not get up anymore..
There are so many forms of abuse.. manipulation, control, emotional, physical.. but no matter how many well-intentioned people point it out to you, you will never see it until that inner button is pushed, and YOU can no longer face another day, but have obligations that you cannot set aside and then make the decision that you must change your life.. FOR THE BETTER!!!
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 7:50 AM |
When is Enough........Enough
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omkeerpunt
Posts: 511
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I wish enough was the first time such a lady realise that it is not going to change but that is not the way it is. I had to look on while my sister was going through this thing (no violence but absolute emotional control and isolation). She finally managed to make the mind switch and leave him but even then she made sure that he got the best part of the deal.
This was 6 years ago and since then I saw the life slowly coming back into her and her two girls. But the scars remain and I can understand why she intends to never get married again. The implication of what that dog did to the minds of his girls are yet to be seen but it is virtually guaranteed that they will have trouble getting involved in a loving relationship.
One foolish man having trouble loving those close to him and the lives of so many people is impacted negatively.
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 9:04 AM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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irisheagle
Posts: 2,541
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LipGlossQueen9
(((((((((((BIG TIGHT HUG)))))))))))
there is not enough time nor money
nor emotional support that i could give
that would express how deeply i feel for you.
This is an issue That i have so Much Anger for
i just want to take every abusive man and ship them
to Greenland and freeze them for life.
lipgloss,even though you are in Ny, if you ever need a
Protective roof or someplace to lay your weary head,
it would be my honor to extend that to you.
my heart Bleeds for any woman that has to endure
such behavior.
Good luck with each passing day.
TOAO
jim
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 9:22 AM |
When is Enough........Enough
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amicishirl
Posts: 257
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Luvs I am so glad your daughter and niece have finally made that decision! My sister was married to an man who emotionally abused her for the 30 years they were married. We all tried to tell her that they did not have a "normal" relationship, that she should not put up with that, etc, etc. but she did not listen. Several years ago he was in an accident and was in the hospital/nursing home for 4 months. During those 4 months she came to realize how much she enjoyed NOT having him around and finally came to realize how he had dominated and controlled her for all those years. She divorced him and it has still taken another couple of years for her to feel good about herself!
It's harder to recognize the emotional abuse but it still does a great deal of damage.
Shirl
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 9:50 AM |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996.5
Thirty percent of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.6
In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner.7
Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).8
Though this is not my thread I want to say "Thank you" to all the women here who have shared their hearts publicly. I am touched and in tears at the courage to say these words out loud for it is no longer the "hidden secret" from the world. And the shame that falsely haunts you sometimes may stop you from saying these words out loud.
I'm sitting here in absolute awe of the women who have escaped their "bondage" of a relationship. That takes more courage than anyone can possibly recognize.
Lip...Now I understand more fully how you can be so "wise" beyond your years. The amazing thing that you have done is taken that experience and, after the soul searching, reconciled it into a wisdom many people are never able to achieve. I bow my head in complete respect for your courage and faith. You have indeed travelled to "the other side" and it is with all my heart my wish that you are now free to be the amazing woman you are inside. This is the "woman" I see when you post your wisdom. When it was your "time" it was yours and it is my hope that that road never opens to you again.
For every four women, there is at least one who has experienced assault, be it sexual or physical. The next time you're in a group of women, look around and count. I know the odds seem outrageous but it's a fact. Sitting amongst you will be one woman. Just one. If she comes to you, believe her words. Love her as much as your heart can stand because at that moment she can't love herself. She needs you to love her, to help give her back the pride and self respect she has lost somewhere along the way. Believe her words, no matter how much they offend your own sensibilities. Offer her options or choices she may not know exist and allow her to make the decisions. She will go back time and time again until it is her "time" to resolve it and it may take a while.
It's frustrating to see, to watch, to know and not be able to stop it. To love someone and see them being hurt creates an anger inside that's barely hidden. But let that anger manifest itself in a way that allows you to enable her, and not judge. To fight for her doesn't do her any justice for when she leaves it must be under her own steam, and that "steam" will grow and return to her the woman she once was, only wiser. Like LipGloss
To all the women who have made it "through", and to the women who have not yet but will, one day. May your "god" or "higher power" give you strength and courage to find your own path, Without pain and suffering. Without fear.
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 12:43 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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Fae2591
Posts: 73
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I've been an abused partner for a short time, and I can tell you, it's when YOU reach YOUR limit. No one can convince you to leave until you reach the place where it's enough for you. Unfortunately, some people have to die to get there.
I've heard so much discussion on this subject, but every professional agrees that everyone has a threshold of pain, emotional or physical, and what we are willing to endure has to pass that before we will act.
What really angers me is women or men who allow children to live in an abusive environment. When I was with my abusive mate, it was the night he went after my child that did it. I turned into a mama bear really quickly. I went from someone who had cried and taken the abuse to someone who was standing in his face saying that if he didn't get away from my child, and out of my house, I would kill him. He left, I sent him his stuff, changed my number, and I never saw him or talked to him again. I'm an adult, and if I want to allow you to abuse me, then I'm a fool, but you WILL NOT hurt my children!
If you're the one doing the abusing, then YOU leave! If she is the one, then YOU leave. If it's your relationship, and you're even asking this question...LEAVE!
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 1:05 PM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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i'm quite sure my ex felt she was "verbally/emotionally" abused. but you might ask her who got hit the entine time we were married. my dad was a hitter and so i drew the line there. i cannot ever recall making any kind of threat to my ex. the arguments almost always revolved around her dependence and my independence. as we all understand there are some specific differences in the definition of communication between men and women. when there is a "crisis" men simply solve it or put it on the back burner. the gals can give their opinion. although i figure they will just want to talk about it! LOL i will not allow an abusive relationship in my circle. that is one of the few "crisis'" that does not go on the back burner. anyway there is my 2 cents. i figure one problem is that men do not understand how a woman can't just walk away. duh, they are not trained/ conditioned to walk away. thanks to their moms! LOL
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 1:53 PM |
When is Enough........Enough
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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i figure one problem is that men do not understand how a woman can't just walk away. duh, they are not trained/ conditioned to walk away. thanks to their moms! LOL .....LOL
that's a misconception JJ....there are women that can walk away and will NOT put up with it 1 moment.....sure there are lots of women that want to try to fix every freaking man, child and stray animal that crosses their path....that's a problem i agree....but there are women that have never and would never put up with abuse....ask my ex if you can find him..he wasn't fond of a 38 special like i was...  ....show me the abuse and i'll show you the door in a heart beat whether you're walking are being carried out is up to you.......it's called self worth, self-respect and knowing you deserver better plain and simple......
women stay for many reason as all stated but they are all excuses plain and simple and most are out of fear of being alone and no self worth.........and no one can convince them to leave until they do or they are carried out on a stretcher....if you're not careful all you do is reinforce their destructive behavior with your support, it's a touchy situation always......
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| Jul 11, 2006 @ 4:09 PM |
When is Enough........Enough |
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irisheagle
Posts: 2,541
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Fae2591
If you're the one doing the abusing, then YOU leave! If she is the one, then YOU leave. If it's your relationship, and you're even asking this question...LEAVE!
I guess i should clear this up. It is not me Nor her.
It is a Woman That means very much to my me that
i worry very dearly about. She was there for me when
my wife died 2 years ago. She gave me a place to go
For The first Christmas and thankgiving after her passing
So, i only Want What is best for her, And HE is Most deffinantly
NOT good for her,emotionally, physically and mentally.
didn't know if that was directed at me but wanted to make it clear
where i'm coming from.
ANd Thank you TO ALL of your Posts.
it does help me sometimes to hear other
points of view on something i don't fully
understand.
TOAO
jim
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