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| Aug 9, 2006 @ 11:54 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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jeanc200358
Posts: 934
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And please, you all who are so "open-minded," before you go off calling me a Jesus freak or a prude, bear in mind I haven't stepped foot inside a church in 25 years and also make note of the fact that I see nothing whatsoever, in and of itself, wrong with sexual intercourse. I love it, in fact! Big time.
I just came across this link and thought it was interesting and has some indisputable facts and also pretty closely matches why I think porn and stripping and so forth is degrading, specifically towards women.
http://www.unc.edu/courses/2000fall/phil046-001/html/Longino-outline.html
Also please keep in mind that by my posting this I do so for the purpose of discussion and not because I'm trying to preach anything to anyone. This is supposed to be a discussion forum, is it not? If so, then all points of view should be considered and people shouldn't be so quick to anger and get defensive just because someone doesn't see things from their "open-minded" perspective.
I'm not in any way trying to tell someone how they should act or think or behave or how their attitude toward this ought to be; I'm simply stating what I think about it and offering it up for, hopefully, mature intelligent debate.
From my perspective, there seems to be more of a detriment to pornography and a deviant sexual lifestyle that far outweighs any positive aspect of it. I could jump on the "if it feels good, do it" bandwagon, too, but I just don't believe in that. I think that "think with the head on your shoulders and not with the one in your pants" should be the rule of thumb, regardless of how strong our sexual urges may be.
Anyway, that's partly my .02.
Feel free to comment, or not, as you see fit. Except don't call me a Jesus freak or a prude. Cuz I'm neither. K?
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 12:34 AM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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I rather prefer the course syllabi that present both sides  :
"Pornography is immoral because it is harmful to people." —Helen Longino, "Pornography, Oppression, and Freedom: A Closer Look" (Social Ethics, page 226)
"I will argue that anyone who supports the aims of feminism and who seeks the liberation of all people should reject the censorship of pornography." — Mark R. Wicclair, "Feminism, Pornography, and Censorship" (Social Ethics, page 234)
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 12:53 AM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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jeanc200358
Posts: 934
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I just don't see embracing the objectification of women as being liberating, but to each his or her own.
Thanks for your input.
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 1:19 AM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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crowne
Posts: 80
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It takes a responsible person to be able to enjoy porn and not allow it to cloud his/her judgement. Everyone has something that turns them on sexually and some people like to watch it. But porn can be abused and people who get caught up in their own fantasies can be dangerous or at the very least cant relate to the opposite sex normally. Its a double-edged sword.
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 2:53 AM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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jeanc200358
Posts: 934
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I agree with that to an extent..but porn still views women as being beneath men (literally and figuratively) most of the time. And it gets worse the harder core it gets.
How many women in porn films do you see referring to the man as a "bitch" or "nasty slut" or trying to choke him with a phallus or making various other degrading comments to him? You don't, unless it's a dom/masochism type film.
And I do agree with the article that one of the worst things wrong with it is that the wide acceptance of it does spill over into the myth that women are second-class citizens in "real life," too.
How can a man draw the line thinking it's okay to objectify prostitutes, porn actresses and strippers and then say it's not okay to do the same thing to "regular" women?
Worse than men doing it, by far, are the women who would allow themselves to be degraded in such a manner. It's really very, very sad that women think that's the only way they can hold any power in society, is by earning a living by allowing men to abuse her. It's completely unfathomable to me. I'd die of starvation before I'd ever subject to any man like that.
That's just me, though.
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 7:12 AM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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lilbikerchick
Posts: 213
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Ok, it was too much for me to read right now but it still all seemed to be opinion to me. Some people need to seperate what they see on tv as entertainment from their real life. I watched Nightmare on Elm St but I can still sleep at night knowing that Freddy Krueger isn't going to kill me if I do. Just the same I really don't think the mailman is gonna come into the office tomorrow and bend me over the copy machine and have his way with me.
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 1:41 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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zulamaze
Posts: 1,266
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Just the same I really don't think the mailman is gonna come into the office tomorrow and bend me over the copy machine and have his way with me.
They always disappoint us.. 
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 2:10 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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lilbikerchick
Posts: 213
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They always disappoint us Aww damn. I was trying to be serious. Should have expected that. If you're disappointed, could we trade mailmen? Ours makes Ron Jeremy look good. 
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 3:52 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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observed50
Posts: 407
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Lots of times, we tend to think of groups of people, and think of them as thinking all the same way, the same thing. Regarding pornography, feminists have been struggling with its meanings and access for about 35 years, in large part led by Andrea Dworkin on the very anti-porn side, and a number of others whose names escape me now who are known as the 'pro-sex' feminists, and is a point of view that has emerged from work with sex workers. I thought it might be useful for folks to see some of their writing if they wanted to...
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/mcelroy_17_4.html
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 7:22 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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EXCELLENT site, Observed. I've been comparing some of the statements and platforms of the "radical feminists" vs the "liberal feminists" on other sites...~shudder~ I consider radical feminists and their shadow of misandry (the whole male 'power'/domination scenerio  )....disgusting.
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 8:36 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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FeliciVagano
Posts: 2,152
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I must really be bored to be posting here,,,let me think....yep...bored to tears....
so, why is it wrong to have porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize in the world? should we burn all porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize at the stake? should we shun all porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize ? (thinking that someone types way to fast and does not think things through..)
So.who determines what is legal porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize and what is illegal porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize ?? last I looked it was the courts not the individual.
To the person who is trying to say that she does not like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize .. let me say I get the message I got it several days ago, and I will not , I promise you, ever forget that you don't like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize but that you do like normal heterosexual relations with one man at a time.
but you must also realize that the world does not revolve around you, and there are people who do like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize .??
so my question here is..do you agree that people who like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize are within their rites to like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize and are looking for other people who like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize and problibly will find more people who do like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize than people who don't like porn/ prostitution/ strippers/ people who fantasize ...does anyone get my point here?? 
edited to say that my sperm made me do it..I am an innocent man.... 
[Edited on 8/10/2006 8:43 PM]
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| Aug 10, 2006 @ 9:27 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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Aries361
Posts: 273
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I have always though of porn as being for guys like me who can't get any sex. I have to have some kind of outlet and porn is the best that I can do. I look around in the summer and there are all of these half naked women walking around. I feel like I will go nuts. It is VERY frustrating. I really think that if you had a society with very strict controls on porn you would have a lot of violence. Not to say that I would get violent without it. But I know I get irritable. I drive too fast also.
I don't think you understand how powerful the male sex drive is Jean. Sometimes I wish i could get rid of mine.
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| Aug 11, 2006 @ 2:26 AM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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brian2005
Posts: 50
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We are such a puritan society. In other countries they have porn on regular local channels. In fact, when I lived in Germany, I could've bought porn magizines if I wanted to and I was only in the first grade. (My dad was in the military at the time.) What's really strange is that most tv shows take out all nudity, yet violence and even drugs on tv is ok. Even movies are full of gory violence, but I guess as long as theres no sex it's appropriate. Our society seems to think sex is worse than violence. Porn is like tv, if you don't like it you don't have to watch it. Unfortunately, violence seems to be everywhere. Don't get me wrong, if you're totally against pornography for whatever reasons, I respect that. If you like violence on tv, I'm cool with that too. I just wanted to give a different perspective. Oh and jean, I don't think you're a jesus freak or a prude.
Brian
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 5:40 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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Cidronlvnv
Posts: 285
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nothing is wrong with pornography. just like there is nothing wrong with gambling, smoking, drinking, etc etc. its not the item, rather the frequency/amount that is the problem. if its done to moderation, there isnt a problem. if it borders on obsession, i am sure it will snowball into a problem. smoking will be cancer, gambling will be broke and homeless, drinking will be alcoholism and broke, porn will be upset (due to low/lack of sex) spouse/mate.
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 5:45 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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TV...you forgot to put the damned TV in that list of "vices" 
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 8:00 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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borinken
Posts: 8
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If it wasn't becuase the end result is sad my tendency is to laugh at those who who arbitrarily dictate what is good or bad. If I have a choice I would watch a porno film than delude myself by going to church. Of all the hardships imposed upon humanity, history has proven that in the name of religion we have been subjected to a much harsher and cruel excistance. Wether you believe or not, safe here or in harms way in the middle east, religion is the root cause. Thank you but I'll take porno.
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 9:31 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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AyoungAce
Posts: 9
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Total bull. Yes most porn shows men treating them like there whore. But rest assured there is plenty of porn were the women mistreat the men or call them bitch. I see hard core porn where the guy is getting screwed by a women with a strapon and calling him a bitch. And lets not forget transexuals. They a re women doing men and calling them bitches. I will say this there are all types of porn and everyone may find what they enjoy the most. Porn is not damaging to us. We are animals and in a very anal tight society. Porn helps relieve stress and help make mastubation more enjoyable and even can make sex better to. If you do not like porn that is find but do not force your veiws on other people. Show some class and respect to everyone. I dislike when people try to force there veis on others that is what is wrong with this country. It is just like trying to force a religion on someone or forcing someone to eat collaflower when they dislike it. You can have your colaflower and I will have my broclii.Just respect other veiws and belifs. This is a dating site anyway get politics out of hear and start having fun.
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 9:50 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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kinglouis2005
Posts: 856
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WOW speaking of biased POV...
The author is Helen Longino,,
Helen Longino migrated from undergraduate literary studies to graduate study in logic and philosophy of language, and thence to philosophy of science and theory of knowledge. Active in anti-war and women's liberation movements in the late 1960s and 1970s, she also helped establish and/or stabilize women's studies programs at several of the institutions at which she has taught. As chair of the American Philosophical Association's Committee on the Status of Women in the Profession, she helped draw attention to continuing subtle forms of discrimination against women. In addition to her work in philosophy of science, she has published on social issues such as education, competition, and pornography.
Philosophically, she is an advocate of a strong form of social epistemology that she calls critical contextual empiricism. She has developed facets of her view in essays in philosophy of science and feminist philosophy journals and anthologies, as well as in her book, Science as Social Knowledge. Her current book project, The Fate of Knowledge: Toward a Hybrid Epistemology, should be completed in 1998.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bibliography
BOOKS:
The Fate of Knowledge: Toward a Hybrid Epistemology. (forthcoming)
A Critical / Feminist Philosophy of Science. (forthcoming)
Anywaysssssssssssssssssssssssssss
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 10:00 PM |
What's wrong with pornography?
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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Oh yeh, I forgot I'd tucked this away....
CMC Magazine / January 1, 1996
http://www.december.com/cmc/mag/1996/jan/birwip.html
Sexually Explicit Materials and the Internet, by Douglas Birsch
What is Pornography?
While obscenity is offensive and low value sexually explicit material, the term "pornography" is often used to pick out a different subset of sexually explicit materials. Creating an adequate account of pornographic material is as difficult as identifying obscene material. While there are many competing definitions, I endorse the account provided by Helen Longino in her article "Pornography, Oppression, and Freedom: A Closer Look."
She offers the following account: "Pornography, then, is verbal or pictorial material which represents or describes sexual behavior that is degrading or abusive to one or more of the participants in such a way as to endorse the degradation."
She adds that, "The contextual features, moreover, which communicate such endorsement are intrinsic to the material; that is, they are features whose removal or alteration would change the representation or description."
Pornography describes or depicts violence or degradation of women in a context that endorses the behavior. It describes or depicts women being raped, beaten, tortured, bound, violated, or even killed, and sometimes suggests that women enjoy such treatment. The description or depiction does not take place in the context of bringing out the harm or evil of such treatment, but instead the context offers an explicit or implicit endorsement of the behavior.
So what are we supposed to call the XXX nudie stuff where EVERYBODY is HAPPILY touching and teasing and poking and feeling and tasting and banging away? They're ~gasp~ SMILING!!!
I've never seen anyone "degraded" in the least that "art form" 
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| Aug 12, 2006 @ 10:07 PM |
What's wrong with pornography? |
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NoCuteLines
Posts: 263
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I don't have a big problem with porn as long as people don't confuse porn with making love, but there are no assurances that people newly exposed to porn will make the distinction. Maybe that is why so many men treat women disrespectfully.
But then again, I sure am not an authority on porn.
[Edited on 8/12/2006 10:13 PM]
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