| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:59 AM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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We've discussed porn,drugs and prostitution and what should be legal or not.
It all boils down to where do we draw the line between freedom and public safety.Certainly your right to free speech ends when you attempt to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater and your right to wave your arms around in public ends when your arm gets too close to my face.But where does the line get drawn on what someone does in the privacy of their own home and how this person's actions effect society as a whole.
The porn,pot and prostitution arguments have all boiled down to this one aspect of the argument.No matter what you think of any of it,whether or not you view porn,smoke pot or hire a hooker if someone is indulging in any of it,and you are NOT exposed to it,how is this effecting you?
No one yet has produced a convincing argument to me why things done behind closed doors should be an issue.If it's a consenting adult,who really cares what they do?Certainly if their actions include children or they put the rest of the population in danger (such as driving under the influence) then their behavior is damaging and should be curtailed.Do we ban the action they did,or do we just enforce already existing laws concerning public safety.
There seems to be a division of two camps.The ones who say "do as you like,as long as I don't have to be effected in any way" and those that say,"It's wrong for reason X and therefore should be prohibited."
Which camp are you and why?
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 12:12 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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let me give you my example: i am against abortion on demand but i have no authority over another person I E a womans right to have an abortion, even if it were my wife or girlfriend. the thought/value is reciporical. no one forces me to do something i do not wish to do.
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 12:49 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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twotall911
Posts: 13,048
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dont really care what others do just stay out of my world its one that not too many others can deal with in other words its my own and the rules i live by are mine and after 65 years it must be ok
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 1:07 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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bryan2992
Posts: 688
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I think along similar lines, as long as what I do in my own home doesn't mistreat children or the person I love. WHO CARES!!!! lol.
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 2:28 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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Thor1960303 we have already been through this "PROSTITUTION" thing in a different forum and you know what my opinion is about it.
(Not looking to get banned again  for my comments, but you get my point).
Drug abuse (recreational or not), and non-life threatening abortion.... go ahead and add those too.
No one yet has produced a convincing argument to me why things done behind closed doors should be an issue.If it's a consenting adult,who really cares what they do?
You defininately have a selective or short memory. I remember your former threads well, and the 15 or so pages of arguements from several people.
Gingko helps your memory brain cells. 
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 2:38 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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striving, you post is a bit rambling. is it possible for you to comment on one or the other, or perhaps even both? the "vs" simply means one or the other. do you support one or the other or both?
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 2:53 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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Always_Striving
Posts: 8,794
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Individual freedom vs. public safety
It is a gray area, not black and white. Public Safety is more important of course, but how it is interpreted is another thing. That's where the gray area comes in......
Do you have the United States founding fathers defining it, Hitler's Nazi party, Jim Jones?
If someone becomes alcoholic or drug addicted we aren't just allowed to put a .44 cal bullet into their brain and end it quickly, We have to try and save that person with court proceedures and hospitalization and therapy, stuff that no one wants to pay for, but the drug user forces us to. Then they kill other people with their recreational habbits or addictions.
I've already been down this path with the OP before. He keeps bringing up these same threads every few months. They die out then he brings them back under a different title. That's why my response was short and to the point earlier.
It's the same sh!t on a different spoon.
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 4:44 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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i have no desire to save the druggie, the alky, or even the TB lawyer. i stated my point, i will not cross your line and you will not cross my line unless of course invited. by the way, what subliminal point is the O P trying to slip past those of us who wander about in la la land? 
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:14 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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ToucherinSparks
Posts: 6,699
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No one yet has produced a convincing argument to me why things done behind closed doors should be an issue.If it's a consenting adult,who really cares what they do?Certainly if their actions include children or they put the rest of the population in danger (such as driving under the influence) then their behavior is damaging and should be curtailed.Do we ban the action they did,or do we just enforce already existing laws concerning public safety.
I can give you some points to consider...
1. Some old pedophile is down loading child porn made in Europe to his PC in his home in California. He has never molested a child, and would never consider doing it in the future, but he loves beating off to child porn in the privacy of his room. In California, that's a felony crime and he can be sent to prison for it. Who is he hurting?
2. A drug addict has shot heroin for years. He doesn't steal or rob to support his habit, and he only does it in his home. He becomes sick with hepititus from a used needle and goes to the emergency room, and is admitted to the hospital. He has no insurance, so the public will have to pay for his care. Who is he hurting?
To different cases, but both are done in private. What's your opinion?
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:20 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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SHYBLONDE48
Posts: 1,203
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Great Points Sparks 
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:21 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 10,951
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1. i would say indirectly the pedophile is harming the child that was involved in producing the child porn, since he is buying it.
2. the drug addict is harming the public because the public paying for his care.
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:55 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,041
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LGQ...exactally what I was gonna say!
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 9:57 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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LipGlossQueen9
Posts: 10,951
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Oh- and OP-
say a prostitute has HIV, doesn't know, has sex with a married man who then proceeds to go home, have sex with his wife, who in turn gets pregnant.....
hmmm...
but prostitution doesn't really harm anyone... 
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 10:01 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,625
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Oh, LGQ, you have to run for president some day!!!!!
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 10:03 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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hmm, sadly if the pseudopedophile actually becomes a pedophile the system will do little or nothing. the druggie allows the capitalistic society to make money off you and me. we do not know about the supposed therefore we have no right to suppose. until our system actually punishes those who do wrong the wrongdoers will continue to do wrong. how about when you are caught speeding, how about doing 30 in a 25 school zone!!! until there is a line drawn that everyone will support we will continue to endure evil. selah
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| Jun 1, 2007 @ 11:15 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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say a prostitute has HIV, doesn't know, has sex with a married man who then proceeds to go home, have sex with his wife, who in turn gets pregnant.....
The prostitution in and of itself was/is NOT the crime.Irresponsibilty is the crime and should be dealt with accordingly.If prostitution was legal,imo,there should be restrictions and guidelines,much as there are in legal gambling,alcohol or any other vice.If the punishments were strict enough for violating one of these,there would not only be criminal repurcusions,but civil as well.It's all about regulating the vice.I know it's not a perfect system,minors obtain alcohol and other restricted activities,but compare the violence and criminality associated with illegal hooch before Prohibition and after.There's no comparison.When was the last time someone was gunned down in the street over an illegal booze deal?Yet it happens all the time over drug deals.
1. Some old pedophile is down loading child porn made in Europe to his PC in his home in California. He has never molested a child, and would never consider doing it in the future, but he loves beating off to child porn in the privacy of his room. In California, that's a felony crime and he can be sent to prison for it. Who is he hurting?
2. A drug addict has shot heroin for years. He doesn't steal or rob to support his habit, and he only does it in his home. He becomes sick with hepititus from a used needle and goes to the emergency room, and is admitted to the hospital. He has no insurance, so the public will have to pay for his care. Who is he hurting?
To different cases, but both are done in private. What's your opinion?
1.LGQ is right on target with this one.He is partaking of an illegal business and thus a part of it.Somebody had to molest a child on camera for the porn to exist,therefore the pedophile is an accesory to a crime.Personally I feel that pedophilia is one of those things that should universally never be tolerated regardless of national boundaries.The porn industry in the US has been very vigilant about keeping minors out of it since the Traci Lords incident.Other countries tolerate anything.I look for balence.While I support any law that would punish pedophiles,this can be a two edged sword,people have been serverly punished and suffered needless ruin of life as result of a witch hunt mentality.Grandparents taking innocent bathtub pictures of their grandkids have been punished as pedophiles when they dropped their film off at Walmart.
2.How is the heroin addict any different from the skid row alcoholic,the dysfunctional prescription addict or the nicotine addict who's habit put them in same predicament?The only difference is one habit is legal and the other not.Why tolerate,even support one and not the other?
the druggie allows the capitalistic society to make money off you and me.
This,imo,is the central theme behind the morality for morality's sake laws.
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| Jun 2, 2007 @ 4:26 AM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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grumblebear
Posts: 10,559
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there are so many variables to this there are no easy answers....
For everything you expect the government, or an industry to take care of, you lose freedoms....
If we nationalize health insurance, then doesn't the government have the right to tell us how to eat? or what risks we are allowed to take?
Personal responsibility allows freedom, if I am responsible in my actions, and for my actions then I become the authority on what I can do, and whether I am willing to pay the price for it....
I personally prefer the government has as little to do in my life as possible, but that means I choose the path of responsibility.....
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| Jun 2, 2007 @ 2:06 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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I personally prefer the government has as little to do in my life as possible, but that means I choose the path of responsibility.....
Sir,do you have a copyright on the above? 
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| Jun 2, 2007 @ 7:03 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety
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grumblebear
Posts: 10,559
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I personally prefer the government has as little to do in my life as possible, but that means I choose the path of responsibility..... Sir,do you have a copyright on the above?
no I don't but I should copyright it and sell it to several presidential candidates.... 
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| Jun 3, 2007 @ 9:05 PM |
Individual freedom vs. public safety |
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capitalview
Posts: 758
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LipGlossQueen9
ay a prostitute has HIV, doesn't know, has sex with a married man who then proceeds to go home, have sex with his wife, who in turn gets pregnant.....
but prostitution doesn't really harm anyone...
Really? And what if/when ( each time ) the prostitute gets pregnant?
With all those "pro-life" tendencies lately , don't you have mercy for those numerous fatherless children that will quite inevitably become an economic burden for the society? Do you really believe that having them to outnumber the rest of the population shortly ( due to procreative nature of this "harmless" business ) is "no harm" to society ? 
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