| Mar 19, 2008 @ 1:17 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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RareQuestor
Posts: 2,652
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With global warming and high gas prices on everybody's mind now, it is entirely appropriate to discuss the challenge of energy independence. Before we begin, let's establish a couple of guidelines.
1. No bashing. No "It's all the fault of the liberals" or "It's the Republicans fault" or bashing other nations. If you cannot participate in this discussion without resorting to insults and name-calling, then don't contribute at all.
2. We should seek solutions that can be implemented within five or ten years at most. An idea that will take 20, 30 or 40 years to be effective is a dream, not a solution.
A few of my thoughts on the issue:
It is absolutely essential that we find an alternative to gasoline. Oil is a finite resource and we passed the point of diminishing returns several years ago. It would not matter whether or not we drill in the arctic or not--the oil that we extract would only satisfy the current demand (and probably not even that) and certainly could not support the inevitable population growth and consumption in America and elsewhere. It is estimated that America uses 146 billion gallons of gas every year. Even conservation and improved gas mileage cannot sustain that level of consumption and certainly not when China and India are rapidly industrializing. We must devote more of our resources to research in alternative fuels. If we can spend a billion a week in Iraq, then we can certainly devote a few billion to incentives for replacing our current automobiles with a hybrid or phasing out gasoline in favor of hydrogen.
We badly need to revitalize public transportation. In my state, the legislature recently approved a law that allows senior citizens to use public transportation free of charge. It was a cynical political ploy by our governor, but it might be a step in the right direction. Why not extend that benefit to all citizens regardless of age? People might howl about socialism and the burden on the taxpayer, but the fact is that our tax dollars are already subsidizing the auto industry. The federal, state and local governments spend billions of dollars every year building, repairing and widening roads, bridges and parking lots. Why not divert those resources to free public transportation? If I recall correctly, the city of Portland already does this and is one of the cleanest cities in America. With fewer cars on the road, there would be less congestion, lower gas prices, fewer traffic accidents, less need for parking lots and hence reduced urban sprawl, et cetera,
We need to devise incentives for alternative energy. Solar panels which double as roof shingles have been available for almost ten years now, for example, yet none of my neighbors who replaced their roof have taken advantage of this technology. Even if there are significant tax credits are available, I suspect that most people do not know about them. Why are we not emphasizing such programs--not only on a local basis, but on a national basis? Wouldn't the tax rebate slated to begin this summer be better spent on revitalizing our energy grid to take advantage of literally millions of houses that could serve as micro-power plants?
We also badly need to educate people about the necessity of conservation. It always appalls me to see how wasteful people are now without even realizing it. Too many people leave lights, televisions, computers, et cetera turned on even when they are doing something else or are actually asleep! People throw away products that could be and should be recycled without realizing that it requires energy to produce those products--and that just increases costs for everybody! We need to start educating all of our citizens about the consequences of waste.
These are just a few ideas. Feel free to contribute your own.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 2:27 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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I know you're too young to remember it, but all of those are things we (or a lot of us) rallied for and worked toward -- back in the 70's.
Few listened and acted back then. Not much has changed since then. 
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 8:13 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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drs297
Posts: 4,862
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oh heck. just ban all companies from creating, making and producing things daily which require the use of all the energy. Would solve a lot of problems besides just energy and holy crap might actually force kids to get outside and do things like when we were growing up
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:16 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,418
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If we all reverted to living like the little house on the prairie for a time (woodstoves, candles,homemade items and gardens, etc), that'd sure be a high dollar blow to the utility companies
People that enjoy real camping are doing it at the time!
Energy efficient light bulbs, insulation will help at home.
Carpool.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:34 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,679
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 wood stoves and candles are not energy efficient..and they are polluters also... 
besides... there are better ways to stay warm in the dark... 
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:43 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,679
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Shell Eco-Marathon winner gets 7,148MPG economy For the past couple of years Dutch oil-giant Shell has played host to the ‘Eco-Marathon’ challenge, a competition where teams have to build the most fuel efficient cars possible and then race them. The car that won the last two challenges recorded fuel economy levels as high as 7,148mpg (0.03L/100km), and this year’s event, scheduled to take place at the Fontana California Speedway next month, is expected to see the record broken. The goal of the challenge is to design and build a vehicle that uses the least fuel and produce the fewest emissions possible. Teams can use conventional fuels such as diesel, petrol and LPG, as well as alternative fuels such as solar, electric, hydrogen and biomass can power the vehicles. Although the vehicles may not be entirely practical, their design provides clues as to some of the features we may one day be seeing on regular production cars. Key elements include a low, aerodynamic profile, downsized engines and bodies, and low rolling resistance tires and drivetrain. http://news.trend.az/index.shtml?show=news&newsid=1157906&lang=EN
imho..it is not gasoline that is the problem..it is how it is being used...
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:51 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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smilingfaces79
Posts: 41
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All the alternatives you have stated are great but the cost is an issue. Even with tax breaks the intial cost of implementing your suggestion is an issue. We have all the answers we need to energy independence. All that is need now is to put them in the reach of all people cost wise.
I had the oppurtunity to by a Honda hybrid but I did not. It was almost a 10,000 jump in price. It did not make sense to me to spend that much more for basically the same car.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:54 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,679
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With Dryer Miser... http://www.dryermiser.com/• Dry clothes up to 41% faster • Use up to 50% less energy • Reduce high energy bills • Reduce fabric shrinkage • Eliminate odors • Dry clothes safely • Reduce the risk of fires • Eliminate ultra-fine C02 particles
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 11:55 AM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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drs297
Posts: 4,862
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or just hang them outside.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 12:01 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,679
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.......  ..(unless it is raining or below freezing...  )
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 12:05 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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drs297
Posts: 4,862
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true but just do what I used to do. wash a few things at a time and put an extension rod over the tub, hang a rod in the garage etc. hand them up and let them go
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 12:09 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,418
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wood stoves and candles are not energy efficient..and they are polluters also...
maybe not...
the point I was trying to make is hurting the utility companies, Of course, a LOT of people would have to be on board to make any difference.
Nevermind....
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 7:50 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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530Meliss
Posts: 11
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I drive 35 miles to work each way. I've tried to car pool but I have to drive 15 miles to meet up with anyone that is interested in car pooling. YET there's a bus run that's just three blocks from my house. It's a county bus set up to take workers to the Indian Casino. If my supervisor would let me shift my work schedule a half an hour earlier the university would pay $20 of my monthly bus pass, it would get one more vehicle off the road and I wouldn't have to pay $50 a month for a parking pass.
My supervisor is being a PAIN in the pattoooiee! The faculty I work for are gone by 4:00 every day anyway! Can you hear my frustration?
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 8:10 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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drs297
Posts: 4,862
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yup.
My job was an hour commute each way, leaving the house at 6 am, there are no buses out here and you cannot catch any until you were within 4 miles of my job. Car pooling sucks and more a pain in the ass since my hours were never set in stone, I would have to run to the home improvement stores at different times during the day, run errands etc.
Even if car pooling was an option wouldn't do it
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 9:41 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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pamdemonium
Posts: 17,347
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I'm at 20+ miles each way. I don't mind admitting I had some white knuckle rides this winter. Still, like drs, not sure I'd want to lose my independance and carpool.
Even with the price of gas.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 9:50 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 2,652
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yup.
My job was an hour commute each way, leaving the house at 6 am, there are no buses out here and you cannot catch any until you were within 4 miles of my job. Car pooling sucks and more a pain in the ass since my hours were never set in stone, I would have to run to the home improvement stores at different times during the day, run errands etc.
Even if car pooling was an option wouldn't do it
That is perhaps the most significant part of the problem, drs. The whole system is set up to take advantage of personal transportation rather than public transportation. The majority of Americans must commute in order to work or attend school or social events; we must drive to buy groceries; we often must drive just to visit family or friends. In other words, the American way of life has evolved to serve the automobile rather than people. It's no coincidence that the concept of community has disappeared as the highway system expanded and automobiles became more common. We have been enslaved by the very technology that was intended to liberate us.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 9:54 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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signme
Posts: 12,588
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I live out in the middle of nowhere. No buses out here and no buses in the town where I teach either. I can't carpool with a neighbor because I go in to school an hour earlier and stay much later. She's available in case of an emergency but that's about it. At least I have a small car that gets fairly decent mileage.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 10:11 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 2,652
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All the alternatives you have stated are great but the cost is an issue. Even with tax breaks the intial cost of implementing your suggestion is an issue. We have all the answers we need to energy independence. All that is need now is to put them in the reach of all people cost wise.
I had the oppurtunity to by a Honda hybrid but I did not. It was almost a 10,000 jump in price. It did not make sense to me to spend that much more for basically the same car.
If a big-item ticket is cheap, you can be sure that it is subsidized in some way. In order to reckon the true cost of an item, one has to factor in the cost of obtaining the raw resources required, the manufacturing process and the effect of those actions on whichever society supplies the resources. Oil was cheap in the past, for example, because it was supplied by corrupt regimes who were more interested in personal power than in the welfare of their people and because we were the primary consumers. Consider the example of the 1974 oil embargo: The moment OPEC turned off the supply, prices of just about every product soared even though nothing had changed in either how oil was extracted or how it was processed. Oil had been cheap only because it was effectively subsidized by the Arabs and other suppliers. Unfortunately, we failed to learn from that lesson and continued to support repressive governments in the Mideast and elsewhere even as China and India were transforming themselves into industrial giants and demanding ever more oil and natural resources. The war in Iraq is merely another example of the consequences of failing to do the right thing in the beginning.
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 10:19 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence
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RareQuestor
Posts: 2,652
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I live out in the middle of nowhere. No buses out here and no buses in the town where I teach either. I can't carpool with a neighbor because I go in to school an hour earlier and stay much later. She's available in case of an emergency but that's about it. At least I have a small car that gets fairly decent mileage.
Thank you for illustrating my point.
It rather worries me because there so many small towns and even rural areas in America which are utterly dependent on energy. The residents do not grow their own food or manufacture their own products; they must drive ten or more miles just to obtain groceries and other necessities. What will happen to such towns when energy prices make it impossible to live that way?
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| Mar 19, 2008 @ 10:20 PM |
A Challenge: Energy Independence |
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budo13
Posts: 3,609
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i understand that the Brazilians use sugarcane for energy have even offered to show us how maybe the time is right to look at their ideas
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