| Sep 3 @ 11:52 AM |
Science education in America
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,505
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I originally posted this in the Politics and Current Events forum, but that proved to be a mistake since that forum is a battlefield for liberals and conservatives rather than a forum for serious discussion. I decided to post it here instead in the hope of inspiring genuine debate:
Eastham observed:
This whole "debate" has only shown me how poorly we teach science in the schools and how little we really pay attention to it as adults. Even our science magazines are more technology than science.
I concur entirely--and I am not excluding myself. My own science education in junior high and high school was a joke and focused more on biology than on any other area of science. The teachers tried to avoid controversy and dissecting frogs was not yet controversial. I was educated during the 1970's when our entire nation was in decline, so I don't know whether science education has improved or deteriorated even further since then.
I have often wondered why this should be so. The fact that so many engineering and research jobs have been outsourced to China and India is certainly one factor, but it cannot be the only cause. The shortage of qualified teachers is another factor. Even a graduate student can make more money in the private sector than they can as a teacher. Lack of facilities and equipment is a related problem.
I also suspect that the social status (or lack thereof) of scientists is a significant factor. Over the past two decades, I have noticed a trend of increasing prejudice against intellectuals. I am not just referring to extreme examples in which little girls would rather be the next Britney Spears or Paris Hilton than Rachel Carson or Jane Goodall. I refer to a general social disdain for science and other activities which require functional brain cells. Geeks are mocked--at least until their services are required!--and conformity is emphasized over aptitude. This is most noticeable in the black community where young boys and girls who are interested in intellectual activities are often labeled "Oreos" by their peers. That would in itself be deplorable, but the attitude seems to be spreading throughout American society even as our nation becomes ever more dependent on technology.
Why do you think this is happening? Can it be reversed? If so, how?
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| Oct 30 @ 6:47 PM |
Science education in America |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,505
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| Oct 30 @ 8:21 PM |
Science education in America
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Jankia
Posts: 9,146
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You cannot reverse the changing of society,you can only help in trying to change it for the better.
One reason for this happening is technology.
Technology fits in as the best replacement for two working parents that are quite likely to become somebody elses step-parent.
Who needs dad to play football when you have Playstation?
Who needs to spend time talking with your kids when you can call them on your cell phone from McDonalds to see what they want for supper?
Mom cant meet the kids after school because she has to work full time to pay for the delivered supper,cell phones for the family,monthly internet service charges and daycare for the unschooled children.
I wouldnt say science education has deteriorated but like all education its been given priorities more fitting to whats currently needed for kids to survive on.
Priorities change.
What may have been important to teach in science 40 years ago still is,but what is also is important is teaching what will be important in the future...technology.
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| Oct 30 @ 9:11 PM |
Science education in America |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,329
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...sigh...a contributing factor might be the lack of role models such as Richard Feynman, my idol, and bongo player extraordinaire...  Priorities may change, but technology's the offspring of science.
Rich Feynman on bongos
You might call Feynman the geeks' physicist. He is not as well-known outside scientific circles as Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein or even Niels Bohr, but he can easily stand beside any or all of them in the hall of fame of your choice. Indeed, Hawking describes Feynman as "the physicist's physicist," in his book, A brief History of Time.
In a sense, he surpasses them all, because of his wide range of interests. Feynman is noted in physics circles for re-formulating quantum mechanics in terms of quantum electrodynamics (QED)- a more successful theory of quantum fields, and his development of the Feynman diagram (a graphical way of describing interactions between sub-atomic particles). He is known in government circles for his incisive and revealing contributions to the Rogers Commission report into the Challenger disaster, in which he dramatically showed how rubber O-ring seals become brittle—and lose their ability to seal—at low temperatures. He is remembered by his colleagues on the Manhattan project as the man who worked out how to pick locks and break security, just to tease the security personnel. Mayan scholars remember his work on the Dresden Codex. He is remembered by thousands of physics students at Caltech as their personal hero, who imparted a little of his boundless and infectious enthusiasm for physics through his original and inspiring lectures.
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| Oct 30 @ 9:19 PM |
Science education in America
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drs297
Posts: 4,269
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I blame Tom Cruise, who ruined Scientology
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| Oct 30 @ 9:26 PM |
Science education in America |
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robodad
Posts: 5,861
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Kids just don't pay attention anymore 
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| Oct 30 @ 9:49 PM |
Science education in America
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signme
Posts: 9,567
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Amen to that Robo! I have a class full of kids who do not listen and follow directions. And I'm not alone. Also our science curriculum is totally screwed up this year. I teach 2nd grade and we used to teach science in units, weather, dinosaurs, rocks & minerals, plants, etc. Now we teach the TEKS (Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills). We pull out one thing and teach one aspect on rocks, then do a lab (experiment). We have been arguing until we are blue in the face that our kids still need the whole unit as they don't have the experience, vocabulary or knowledge to understand one aspect according to the TEKS. But we are only teachers and don't know what we are talking about. So they isolate one thing about rocks and we teach that. The kids may never learn how rocks form but they will know how many different kinds there are in our area. Or they may just learn about textures of rocks. They need more basic knowledge before isolating areas like that.So that's one problem we are having here in the lower grades.
Another example is our butterfly studies. We don't do the life cycle, what or how they eat, how they make cocoons (or chrysalises), what happens when they hatch from the chrysalis, but we learn all about their habitat. And that's it. If the kids don't know the rest of the background, they won't be learning it either.
And instead of live labs, sometimes we have to use computer programs or power points to teach it. The kids get no hands on from that.
edited for a typo. :)
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| Oct 30 @ 9:53 PM |
Science education in America |
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Kenn159
Posts: 2,771
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Who needs science when we have creationism. 
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| Oct 30 @ 10:26 PM |
Science education in America
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katydid438
Posts: 6,763
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So they say, Kenn  
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| Nov 3 @ 10:38 AM |
Science education in America |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 1,505
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Posts: 9,298 Amen to that Robo! I have a class full of kids who do not listen and follow directions. And I'm not alone. Also our science curriculum is totally screwed up this year. I teach 2nd grade and we used to teach science in units, weather, dinosaurs, rocks & minerals, plants, etc. Now we teach the TEKS (Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills). We pull out one thing and teach one aspect on rocks, then do a lab (experiment). We have been arguing until we are blue in the face that our kids still need the whole unit as they don't have the experience, vocabulary or knowledge to understand one aspect according to the TEKS. But we are only teachers and don't know what we are talking about. So they isolate one thing about rocks and we teach that. The kids may never learn how rocks form but they will know how many different kinds there are in our area. Or they may just learn about textures of rocks. They need more basic knowledge before isolating areas like that.So that's one problem we are having here in the lower grades.
Another example is our butterfly studies. We don't do the life cycle, what or how they eat, how they make cocoons (or chrysalises), what happens when they hatch from the chrysalis, but we learn all about their habitat. And that's it. If the kids don't know the rest of the background, they won't be learning it either.
And instead of live labs, sometimes we have to use computer programs or power points to teach it. The kids get no hands on from that.
Please tell me you are kidding!
Mental note: rethink plan to move to Texas. 
We certainly need to add bureaucracy to list of reasons why science education in America is so inadequate. 
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| Nov 3 @ 11:02 AM |
Science education in America
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Kirkish
Posts: 162
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I remember when I was in school, I was totally turned off by HOW science was taught, it was boring and the teacher stuck us with repetitive busy-work over and over.
It took a few good sci-fi books to turn me on to black holes, neutron stars, dyson spheres and a good spin off of a dyson sphere, and science in general.
Science ISN'T boring, it's fascinating, and it should be taught that way, imo.
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| Nov 3 @ 2:25 PM |
Science education in America |
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 12,048
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The entire school curriculum is a farce in my opinion...those who decide what and when to teach our children should be shot JMHO... when I was in school (eons ago) we had specific days for each extra curricular activity ie art day. music day etc... after our normal schedule of religion, math, english, spelling, history, science. and we were EXPECTED to FINISH the entire text EVERY YEAR not portions of it  and EVERYDAY we had recess and lunch time to play and unwind so we could pay attention in class..burn of the excess energy yanno? Also there were sports through the school for the kids to play . Now looking at my kids school day is a joke and the amount of homework etc they have to do?? PFFFT.. they have dumbed down so much that all three of my kids get BORED with school . Instead of keeping a standard they make it overly easy so they kids dont have to TRY or LEARN at all  Now my kids get to school at 9 go to 4 classes then lunch then two more and home... NO morning respite to let them unwind this is in Middle school and they wonder WHY the kids dont learn?? Why they are disruptive?? And ALL arts classes are gone.. NO MUSIC of any kind NO art of ANY KIND  and dance etc only during PE WTF??? and they have NOW dropped HALF the school sports programs so this year NO BASEBALL OR SOFTBALL  When a child is not challenged they stagnate.. if greatness is not expected they have no goal in sight .. no beacon to follow to greatness... and that is very sad. I often wonder WHERE the $$ go that our state lottery system was created for . it was to fund schools and well .. I don't see it. No funds for art , science, sports, music, drama etc...Computer labs have replaced actual teaching no HANDS on experiments for science all computer generated.. no REAL rock specimens bird eggs etc oh noooooo those might have GERMS on them  no growing real LIVE plants from seeds there MIGHT be some manure in the soil  its sad some kids will never know what a vegetable plant looks like in the *wild* or how they are grown. But damn sure they will know what a Mickey Ds looks like and how to order a Happy Meal
Oh man I ranted huh? but Rare to answer your questions the sciences they are teaching to our kids are so shallow as to skim over things...no in depth on ANYTHING. not just science.. I guess they figure if the kids really NEED to know something they can look it up ONLINE I have three kids and each one won their 5th grade science fair .. in MY house we do go IN DEPTH and I guess the teachers (the high school science ones that judge the fairs) see that because last year my youngest got a PERFECT score on her Science fair project .. the teacher running the science fair said in 10 years she had been moderating it she had NEVER seen over a 90% Sadly gone are the days that A LOT of teachers even give a shit yanno?? and its such a blessing when you find the remaining few and your kids are lucky enough to be in their classes.. They are the ones that go above and beyond the CURRICULUM and EXPAND their own curriculum to include more than a skimming of facts ( like our own Signme does) .. Thank you to all THOSE teachers.. and to a few of my science teachers too .. Mr Hershewy and Mr Levesque .. you both made science a blast Wish there were more like you in this world 
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