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| Sep 5 @ 12:34 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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I'm having trouble with my '95 Buick Regal, and I'm hoping one of you mechanics on here can help me!
About 2 weeks ago, the Buick started "lurching" and bucking(for lack of a better description). My gas mileage has started to really suck(Not that it was ever all that great!), and the car seems to be running hotter than usual, though that might be my imagination. The "service engine soon" light has been coming on sporadically.
Anyhooo... I finally took it to a local independent mechanic, and he hooked it up to his diagnostic computer. According to him, the computer said that it was the EGR valve that was bad. He said that he cleaned it, and that it should help, but if it DIDN'T help, to come back and he would clean it again, F.O.C.. Well, it DIDN'T do any good, so I took it back to him, and he cleaned it again. It STILL runs like shit.
The cheapest EGR valve that I've been able to find is about $190, which is a MAJOR expense for me at the moment. A friend of mine and I are going to pour some Sea Foam into the brake booster line, since that's suppose to help.
Could this mechanic's diagnostic computer have been wrong, and it's something else?
I'm afraid that if I DO buy an EGR valve, and put it on, that it'll turn out NOT to be the problem, and once I put it on, I can't return it.
ANY thoughts would be appreciated.!
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| Sep 5 @ 12:49 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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grumblebear
Posts: 10,491
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95' buick regal, dirty egr
just doing a search on vehicle and symptom came up with several options, the simplest is to disconnect your battery for 10 minutes, to let the trouble codes reset, and then try the car.... if it runs fine, for a while again, that may be what your mechanic did,
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| Sep 5 @ 1:00 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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Yahoo answers said:
Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valves are usually vacuum operated. Assuming this is the case with your car I offer this explanation that might assist you in determining if it needs to be cleaned or replaced.
Either the EGR system is inoperative or it works too well. If its inop, this means it does not open as designed resulting in insufficient flow. The complaint is usually engine "pinging" or failing an emissions inspection. An inoperative EGR system can be the valve itself or the intake and/or exhaust ports the valve is attached to. Determining if the ports are clogged can be accomplished by removing the valve and inspecting the ports visually or by sound. Clogged ports will likely look clogged with a soft or hard tar like substance called carbon. The carbon build-up might be in the ports and/or on the underside of the valve. Occassionally, the ports look clean, but are clogged downstream. To determine this, start the vehicle with the valve removed. One port is the exhaust and if clear, will make a loud exhaust noise (explosions). The other port is the intake port and if clear will make a loud sucking noise. Another way an EGR system can be inoperative is if the valve diaphragm is ruptured (ripped or torn). A ruptured diaphragm will not allow vacuum to build-up to sufficient levels to lift the EGR pintle away from its seat. This can be diagnosed with the use of a hand vacuum pump. If applying vacuum using a hand vacuum pump does not result in building vacuum and lifting the pintle, the vacuum diaphragm COULD be ruptured. I say could because some systems use back pressure EGR valves. These systems require special test procedures that I don't have in front of me right now. One more reason an EGR system could be inop is due to the pintle be seized. This is the case when the valve holds vacuum, but there is no pintle movement. If you're lucky this can be remedied with some penetrating oil and pliers.
Believe it or not, an EGR system can work too well. The complaint in this case is usually hesitation and/or stumble on acceleration or maybe surging at cruise speed. This can be the result of excessive vacuum, but more often than not is due to a weak return spring. When the spring inside the EGR valve gets hot and cold many times over the years, the spring gets weak. Weak spriings allow the diaphragm to lift the pintle off it's seat too fast and/or too far resulting in excessive EGR flow, hence the hesitation and/or surge.
One more way an EGR system can fail is by sticking open. The complaint is usually a rough idle or stalling at idle. This is usually caused by a piece of carbon getting stuck between the pintle and seat.
If you determine the EGR system is clogged with carbon, then cleaning usually is the answer. Carburetor cleaner can be effective. Clogged ports sometimes requires a "roto-rooter" approach. A "snake" can be made from a speedometer cable and a reversible drill. Fray the end of a universal speedo cable available from most part stores and attach the other end to the chuck of a reversible drill. Run the apparatus through the ports to clear the clog. A small pick tool can be used to clear stuck carbon from a pintle and seat.
Ruptured diaphragms, weak springs and damaged pintle and/or seats require replacement of the EGR valve. I recommend an original equipment manufacturer (OEM) replacement part. The cost more, but more often than not, outperform aftermarket parts. FYI.
[You could also suck on the thing -- check both intake and exhaust -- if you don't have access to a vacuum pump.]
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/EGRValve/Buick/Regal
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?D=egr+valve&Ntt=egr+valve&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Main&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=1585+4294966974&Nty=1&V=1585&Vh=Buick
http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?D=buick+regal+egr+valve+standard&Ntt=buick+regal+egr+valve+standard&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Main&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=4294966974&Nty=1
http://market.autopartsfair.com/search.html?offset=0&make_id=26&model_id=406&year_id=1995&part_type_id=6&part_id=381
http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mak,BUICK,1995
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| Sep 5 @ 1:15 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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daisy315
Posts: 4,333
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Sunbabe is usually right on the money Storm.. she has diagnosedmy cars more times than I can remember.. and she'll help ya find parts alot cheaper than you can on your own..
btw.. the diagnostic machines are usually on the money.. my buick did that lurching crap too.. it was a vaccuum hose..
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| Sep 5 @ 1:15 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 12,053
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I did this when I needed one for my Caprice .. went to a pick a part and searched for one that looked NEW on like a smashed car... found one too 5 bucks instead of 120  and it passed smog the next week
oh yeah vacuum hoses WILL cause it to be intermittent too.. check your vacuum lines
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| Sep 5 @ 1:30 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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nah12
Posts: 3,973
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Sunny is right .... it has nothing to do with the brake lines ....
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| Sep 5 @ 1:35 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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Daisy... did the diagnostic computer show that it was a vacuum hose, or did it say it was your EGR valve,... how did you know that it was, in fact, a vacuum hose?
That friend of mine actually has a speedometer cable, and we're going to try that "snaking" trick, in addition to Sea-Foaming the hell out of it.
I actually spoke to a mechanic this afternoon(He was in front of me at the grocery store check-out... and I didn't know him), and HE said that it was definitely the spark plug wires, since the wires that are on the Buick now are the ORIGINALS. Of course, this guy said that without having even LOOKED at the car, so I'm guessing that he is wrong, at least in MY case.
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| Sep 5 @ 4:35 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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daisy315
Posts: 4,333
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Stormy, if those are the original wires on your car.. it's WAY past time to change them.. have you changed your fuel filters at all?.. I only have 46000 miles on my 2000 Daewoo, and my car started acting up.. no power, lurching.. I took it in and asked my mechanic to check the fuel filter and he said it was 75% gunked up.. all these "fixes" are fairly cheap to do and will help with your gas mileage whether or not it's your ERG valve.. regular maintenance keeps a car purring like a new one
on my buick, I took the vaccuum hose off and found that it had collapsed.. I just put a new one on.. my tempo, it was the ERG valve.. diagnostics found that problem
when I'm working on my cars myself ( not since I got the Daewoo  ).. I always check the cheapest stuff out first and work my way up to the more costly fixes..
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| Sep 5 @ 4:45 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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twotall911
Posts: 12,856
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vacum line start with that first cheap too and then the diaphram may be dry rotted and check your fuel filter if that starts to become dirty that will also send the computor to egr valve defect of course after you disconnect your battery it may take up to forty cranks to clear the computor
of course sunbabe is the best 
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| Sep 5 @ 10:57 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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This is precisely why I'm getting my Nissan fixed(Remember the accident?)... it doesn't have any GODDAMNED COMPUTERS ON IT!!! Also, I can work on the Nissan myself, 99% of the stuff on my Buick I can' do.
Yep... I had a new fuel filter and spark plugs put on last year, and according to my mechanic, they were the ORIGINALS!
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| Sep 5 @ 9:05 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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Jankia
Posts: 9,148
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Ask the mechanic if he is certain that it as a bad EGR valve.If he is tell him to replace it.If that doesnt solve your problem,your not obligated to pay for his wrong diagnosis.
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| Sep 5 @ 10:04 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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So... you're telling me since his COMPUTER made the diagnosis, AND if I get him to put the valve on, AND if it turns out that the computer was WRONG, then I don't have to pay the mechanic? As I said, I can get a new EGR valve for about `85 bucks, and put it on myself, and the mechanic was going to charge OVER 400 bucks(parts and labor).
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| Sep 5 @ 10:29 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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Jankia
Posts: 9,148
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Well you did say the cheapest was $190 not $85.Anyway you need to find a new mechanic if he was going to charge $400 to replace an EGR valve.
Not sure about a 95 Regal but most are only having to remove a couple bolts on the manifold.
Anytime the mechanic fixes something that isnt broke,for example if this doesnt cure your problem it doesnt matter if it was diagnosed by computer or not,you dont pay for whats not corrected.
If you buy it and fix it yourself and it doesnt work,take the valve back.
Bumper to Bumper will refund.
[Edited on 9/5/2008 10:35 PM]
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| Sep 5 @ 10:59 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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Always_Striving
Posts: 7,595
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Sounds like fuel mixing problems or catalytic converter. I wouldn't know right off the bat but I like Grumblebear's suggestion about disconnecting the battery to reset the dianostics computer. Haynes manuals have trouble shooting codes in them and a dealership that services your type of car carries service manuals which they should let you look at or even zerox copies (If they have a heart). Libraries carry Mitchel's auto schematics and trouble shooting routines on their reference shelves, photo copy them.
I would also consider Googling for blogs, this would be my second choice right after purchasing a haynes auto repair manual for the make, year and model of the vehicle in question.
Get yourself some orange hand degreaser and put some elbow grease and a little sweat equity into repairing your own car. Or invite some of your mechanically inclined bro's over for a car worshop and free beer night.
Good luck.
(edited)
Oh I was just looking over Sunbabe's response. I did replace (not clean) the EGR valve in my car when I rebuilt the engine. The valve was frozen in the open position and the engine exhaust ports were FULL OF SOLIDIFIED CARBON BUILDUP just like the EGR was. Talk about clogged arteries.
I took the head off and cleaned out the ports common to the exhaust manifold and the EGR valve with an electric drill that had a brass wirebrush wheel. The ports will need to have the gunk knocked loose with a screwdriver and most of the gunk will have to be dug out from the inside that way too. The rest can be cleaned out with pipe cleaners like this
[Edited on 9/6/2008 12:01 AM]
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| Sep 6 @ 12:36 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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The guy I took the car to is not my mechanic. Last week, I let MY mechanic drive the car around, and he said it was either one of two things... that it's either the catalytic converter, or a sensor. Mind you... he doesn't have a diagnostic computer. I originally thought it was the transmission, but my mechanic said that it is NOT the transmission(WHEW!).
As for returning the part, no dice. The place I'd be getting it from(O'Reilly's) said that if I put the valve on, and it turns out that it doesn't fix the problem, I can NOT return it.
As for the mechanic charging 400 bucks, that's for the part AND the labor.
As for removing the head, that is something that I would NEVER attempt!
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| Sep 6 @ 1:03 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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grumblebear
Posts: 10,491
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the following is history, not advised to do....
my mechanically minded friends and I used to have one person rev the motor to 3500-4000 rpm's, and pour about half a can of Seafoam down the carb slowly... and the last of it poured in fast to kill the motor...
theoretically it would clean the carbon out of the motor, egr, etc....
but if you pour too much in too fast, you can bend pushrods, connecting rods, etc... by "hydraulically locking the engine....
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| Sep 6 @ 1:14 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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Always_Striving
Posts: 7,595
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Stormy, do one more thing..... do like twotall said ..... check or replace the fuel filter.
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| Sep 6 @ 3:04 AM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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twotall911
Posts: 12,856
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or C-4 
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| Sep 9 @ 8:22 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!!
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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Well.... here's the latest.
A friend of mine and I took the EGR valve off, and cleaned it as best we could. It didn't help. Then today, we replaced the plug wires.... believe it or not, the wires on there were the ORIGINALS!!! It STILL didn't help, though I HAVE noticed that it's now more of a "vibration" than anything else.... that isn't a very accurate description of the "sensation", but it's the bext word I could think of at the moment. 
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| Sep 9 @ 8:23 PM |
HELP, ANY MECHANICS ON HERE!!! |
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stormy73
Posts: 1,164
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P.S. It's not really "lurching" or "bucking" anymore.... if that's a help!
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