| Nov 10, 2008 @ 5:32 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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Fact:
I have a friend that attends 12-step metting because he is mandated to do so by the courts. He is playing the game. And I suspect that he is still dealing. He goes to meeting to pick women up. I know quite a few people, guys and girls, that attend the meeting for that sole reason. They don't really believe the stuff they are saying at the meetings. The 12-steps haven't work all that good for them. Yet, they still join in and say it works. Why ?
I don't know.....
A lot about 12-step meeting confuses me.
I would like to present a education thread on the steps, as I see them.
Some of the post will be pro-12-step, other will not be.
One thing I can promise is that, what ever I post, it will be as honest as the principles say I have to be.
WARNING - Sponsors in Alcoholics Anonymous
The Real Bill Wilson - Alcoholics Anonymous
Resisting 12 Step Coercion
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| Nov 10, 2008 @ 5:52 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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Top Ten Reasons To Run From Alcoholics Anonymous
Why AA doesn't work for over 97% of people who join
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 3:41 PM |
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copsmomof2
Posts: 293
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WTF???
I can't imagine going to an AA to meet someone!! These folks are trying thier best to deal with demons and you have a friend that cruises these for women? That's just pretty damn sick.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 3:49 PM |
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Brass_Wolf
Posts: 1,551
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Just a thought - The people who may be able to offer the best insight into the topic, the active members of AA, will likely refrain from doing so. That's how they roll.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 3:52 PM |
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Brass_Wolf
Posts: 1,551
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Given that premise, the representation on the issue will become a one sided bash fest. Knock yourselves out.
[Edited on 11/12/2008 3:58 PM]
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:02 PM |
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beckyiv42000
Posts: 14,576
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Oh man another AA bashfest O?  wow someone must have totally screwed you over to try to rip apart something that tries to help people 
oh and FACT: you have some pretty screwed up friends O .. that is taken from your own postings of some of the antics of your FREINDS
[Edited on 11/12/2008 4:03 PM]
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:02 PM |
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Coven4nt
Posts: 822
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the real world never seases to surprise me 
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:18 PM |
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drs297
Posts: 4,862
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shit if I'm going to attend a 12 step program it will be one for sex addicts, better chance of getting laid
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:23 PM |
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Aeromuse
Posts: 3,979
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always workin' the angles that one  
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 4:39 PM |
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poniepower
Posts: 1,733
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AA is for quiters
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 5:03 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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Just for the record:
I attend a AA meeting every morning at 6:45 am. I hate it, I don't agree with it, but I'm supporting a friend that is ill. So I make the best of it. It beat hangin out with drunks. I will admit that there is value in hangin with people that can relate. But, I don't like the business of saying you are an alcoholic, drug attic, etc. I think the mind will believe what you tell it. If you tell yourself that you can't do something, then the mind will set about proving it. If you tell yourself that you can quit, then the mind will set about proving that. Then, there's the legal aspect of violating people right to freedom of religion, separation of church and state, and all the case where the 12-step fellowship has been determined to be religous. It bothers me that the fellowship ignores all of this. It also bothers me that they read the same print outs over and over. That's cult like to me. It seems like they are trying to brainwash folks.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 5:07 PM |
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poniepower
Posts: 1,733
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Then, there's the legal aspect of violating people right to freedom of religion, separation of church and state, and all the case where the 12-step fellowship has been determined to be religous. It bothers me that the fellowship ignores all of this. It also bothers me that they read the same print outs over and over. That's cult like to me. It seems like they are trying to brainwash folks
coughs....bullsh!t 
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 5:12 PM |
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Brass_Wolf
Posts: 1,551
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How about those Titans?
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 5:41 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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Just a thought - The people who may be able to offer the best insight into the topic, the active members of AA, will likely refrain from doing so. That's how they roll.
I could pretty much predict what they would say anyway. It all seems to be scripted. If you've read the Big Book of AA you can pretty much predict what a member will say.
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 5:55 PM |
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poniepower
Posts: 1,733
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How about those Titans?
Pfft...LOL they only beat the Packers in OT  by 3 pts
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 6:02 PM |
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Brass_Wolf
Posts: 1,551
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Even ugly wins are still wins! Re: OP "Bueller? Bueller? Class? Anyone? Annyone?"
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 6:03 PM |
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poniepower
Posts: 1,733
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Even ugly wins are still wins! And that's what I have to say about that
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 7:59 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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You know I don't think I'm really being all that unreasonable. All I want is for people that have an issue with the religious tone of the 12-step program, or an issue with anything else about the program, to be offered an alternative. And I want the fellowship to stop bashing people who choose to go another way to recovery, admit that the program doesn't work for everyone, admit that it's a religious program, courts to stop mandating participation in the groups, federal, state, and local re-organization of the substance abuse recovery scheme so that the 12-steps don't dominate the field, world peace, and a date with Tyra Banks.
Is that so much to ask ?
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 8:05 PM |
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poniepower
Posts: 1,733
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What's the difference if it is a religious program. I went to a couple AA meetings. MORE then a couple because of personal things going on in my life.
There's nothing wrong with God being in MY life! I Praise and Pray to Him everyday, so what's the difference?!?! I see no Wrong in God being the 1st step in a 12 step program 
As far as the program not working.....it worked for me. I quit!! I don't drink anymore, so here's your proof it works 
Explain how it's dominates world peace?? My gosh some of the chit you come up with......  Not even going to "try' to figure it out.... 
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| Nov 12, 2008 @ 8:34 PM |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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world peace and tyra banks was a joke....
Not everybody wants to be force into participating in religious activities. If you listen to the video "resisting 12-step coercion" it goes into the religious issue. It's not so much that anything is wrong with it being a religious program, as the fellowship denies that it's religious.
I am glad it worked for you. However, I found a lot of the principles contradicted my religious beliefs as a Buddhist. For instance, we don't believe that there is a "higher power", or that happiness can be found out side oneself. I also found that the notion that one could have any higher power they wanted was contradicted by the actual practice of the 12-steps, and the big book itself, which clearly encourages a christian concept of a higher power---at least it does to me.
I found the chapter on "we agnostics" very offensive to agnostics. And hard to read myself.
Again, I'm glad it works for you. But that's not proof that it can work for me, or for others that don't agree with the principles and/or prefer to keep their religious life personal and remain free to define their spiritual persona without having it dictated to them.
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