| Apr 12 @ 1:09 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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from scienceblog.com
It turns out that older men chasing younger women contributes to human longevity and the survival of the species, according to new findings by researchers at Stanford and the University of California-Santa Barbara.
Evolutionary theory says that individuals should die of old age when their reproductive lives are complete, generally by age 55 in humans, according to demographer Cedric Puleston, a doctoral candidate in biological sciences at Stanford. But the fatherhood of a small number of older men is enough to postpone the date with death because natural selection fights life-shortening mutations until the species is finished reproducing.
"Rod Stewart and David Letterman having babies in their 50s and 60s provide no benefit for their personal survival, but the pattern [of reproducing at a later age] has an effect on the population as a whole," Puleston said. "It's advantageous to the species if these people stick around. By increasing the survival of men you have a spillover effect on women because men pass their genes to children of both sexes."
"Why Men Matter: Mating Patterns Drive Evolution of Human Lifespan," was published Aug. 29 in the online journal Public Library of Science ONE. Shripad Tuljapurkar, the Morrison Professor of Population Studies at Stanford; Puleston; and Michael Gurven, an assistant professor of anthropology at UCSB, co-authored the study in an effort to understand why humans don't die when female reproduction ends.
Human ability to scale the so-called "wall of death"—surviving beyond the reproductive years—has been a center of scientific controversy for more than 50 years, Puleston said. "The central question is: Why should a species that stops reproducing by some age stick around afterward?" he said. "Evolutionary theory predicts that, over time, harmful mutations that decrease survival will arise in the population and will remain invisible to natural selection after reproduction ends." However, in hunter-gatherer societies, which likely represent early human demographic conditions and mating patterns, one-third of people live beyond 55 years, past the reproductive lifespan for women. Furthermore, life expectancy in today's industrialized countries is 75 to 85 years, with mortality increasing gradually, not abruptly, following female menopause.
Grandmother hypothesis
In 1966, William Hamilton, a British evolutionary biologist, worked out the mathematics describing the "wall of death." Since then, the most popular explanation for why humans don't die by age 55 has been termed the "grandmother hypothesis," which suggests that women enhance the survival of their children and grandchildren by living long enough to care for them and "increasing the success of their genes," Puleston said. However, Hamilton's work has been difficult to express as a mathematical and genetic argument explaining why people live into old age.
Unlike previous research on human reproduction, this study—for the first time—includes data on males, a tweak that allowed the researchers to begin answering the "wall of death" question by matching it to human mortality patterns. According to Puleston, earlier studies looked only at women, because scientists can reproduce good datasets for humans entirely based on information related to female fertility and survival rates.
"Men's fertility is contingent on women's fertility—you have to figure out how they match up. We care about reproduction because that is a currency by which force of selection is counted. If we have not accounted for the entire pattern of reproduction, we may be missing something that's important to evolution."
Men and longevity
In the paper, the researchers analyzed "a general two-sex model to show that selection favors survival for as long as men reproduce." The scientists presented a "range of data showing that males much older than 50 years have substantial realized fertility through matings with younger females, a pattern that was likely typical among early humans." As a result, Puleston said, older male fertility helps to select against damaging cell mutations in humans who have passed the age of female menopause, consequently eliminating the "wall of death."
"Our analysis shows that old-age male fertility allows evolution to breach Hamilton's wall of death and predicts a gradual rise in mortality after the age of female menopause without relying on 'grandmother' effects or economic optimality," the researchers say in the paper.
The scientists compiled longevity and fertility data from two hunter-gatherer groups, the Dobe !Kung of the Kalahari and the Ache of Paraguay, one of the most isolated populations in the world. They also looked at the forager-farmer Yanomamo of Brazil and Venezuela, and the Tsimane, an indigenous group in Bolivia. "They're living a lifestyle that our ancestors lived and their fertility patterns are probably most consistent with our ancestors," Puleston said about the four groups. The study also looked at several farming villages in Gambia and, for comparison, a group of modern Canadians.
continued...
[Edited on 4/12/2009 1:16 AM]
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| Apr 12 @ 1:17 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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continued from above...
In the less developed, traditional societies, males were as much as 5-to-15 years older than their female partners. In the United States and Europe, the age spread was about two years. "It's a universal pattern that in typical marriages men are older than women," Puleston said. "The age gaps vary by culture, but in every group we looked at men start [being reproductive] later. At the end of reproduction, male fertility rates taper off gradually, as opposed to the fairly sharp decline in female fertility by menopause." Despite small differences based on marriage traditions, all women and most men in the six groups stopped having children by their 50s, the researchers found. But some men, particularly high-status males, continued to reproduce into their 70s. The paper noted that the age gap is most pronounced in societies that favor polygyny, where a man takes several wives, and in gerontocracies, where older men monopolize access to reproductive women. The authors also cite genetic and anthropological evidence that early humans were probably polygynous as well.
Older male fertility also exists in societies supporting serial monogamy, because men are more likely to remarry than women. "For these reasons, we argue that realized male fertility was substantial at ages well past female menopause for much of human history and the result is reflected in the mortality patterns of modern populations," the authors say. "We conclude that deleterious mutations acting after the age of female menopause are selected against … solely as a result of the matings between older males and younger females."
According to Puleston, the "grandmother hypothesis" may be true, but the real pattern of male fertility extends beyond this explanation. "The key question is: Does the population have a greater growth rate if men are reproducing at a later age? The answer is 'yes.' The age of last reproduction gets pushed into the 60s and 70s if you add men to the analysis. Hamilton's approach was right, but in a species where males and females have different reproductive patterns, you need a two-sex model. You can't correctly estimate the force of selection if you leave men out of the picture. As a man myself, it's gratifying to know that men do matter."
Grants from the U.S. National Institute on Aging supported this study.
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| Apr 12 @ 1:29 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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pomegranate
Posts: 1,676
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The article doesn't say a thing about older men chasing younger women. Besides, as far as getting younger women pregnant, is that the goal of older men wanting younger women? Not too many men I know of past the age of 40, even, even want children anymore. And even if this theory were true, being capable of sperm donation doesn't ensure a much younger woman would even WANT to be chased by an old geezer 20, 30 years her senior. I believe there are enough young, healthy, studly males available to ensure procreation of the species without delegating that role to Grandpa.
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| Apr 12 @ 1:42 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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DiamondRain
Posts: 6,354
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Tisk tisk!
There's that bitterness again pomegranate.
Oh my! 
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| Apr 12 @ 2:06 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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indigorose351
Posts: 377
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I believe there are enough young, healthy, studly males available to ensure procreation of the species without delegating that role to Grandpa.  ......that's funny i don't care who you are.
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| Apr 12 @ 2:33 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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DRACULA_VwV
Posts: 7
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Young women, like old men, because young studs, like only the hottest young women, thus forcing the young female stragglers to choose the alternative. Intellect and higher finances of the older males also factor in to this iron clad equation.
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| Apr 12 @ 5:11 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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pomegranate
Posts: 1,676
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Actually, if you want to know the truth about it, young studs like us "old stragglers," SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET PREGNANT!!! Oh, and because we know how to please them, too, and because we don't expect them to put a ring on our finger -- OR through their nose.
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| Apr 12 @ 8:07 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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uab_5
Posts: 4,759
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At my "youthful" age....hmmm maybe a 25 year old does sound delicious now that you mention it, 
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| Apr 12 @ 9:49 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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chipperoo64
Posts: 989
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Anyone actually read all of that?
I''ll take one around my age or 2-20's for equivalence. I'm not picky 
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| Apr 12 @ 10:03 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,662
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(spread the negativity....  )
Diamond Rain says he is 99 years old... 
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| Apr 12 @ 10:45 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,061
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Some of us old stragglers DO want a ring on our finger.
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| Apr 12 @ 11:16 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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1stsignofspring
Posts: 17,992
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Mom...this is the second thread about the assets of a younger woman.....I don't think they can even begin to understand the wonders of an older woman 
Here here!! Calling for a new older woman thread....  
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| Apr 12 @ 11:19 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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SensualGemini
Posts: 6,920
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Pom: The article doesn't say a thing about older men chasing younger women.
...First paragraph. 
========
...Our tax dollars at work.
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| Apr 12 @ 11:44 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,061
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I might have to quit paying taxes if this is the result.
Spring, many of them don't know that we may have the years, but we are still young at heart!
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| Apr 12 @ 11:57 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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pomegranate
Posts: 1,676
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...First paragraph.
Yeah, SG, I realize that...(insert googly faced emoticon suggesting SG's likewise a nutcase here):
But the article itself isn't about old men chasing young women. It's about some contrived b.s. EXCUSE for why that's a "biological necessity."
(Throw in rolling eyes emoticon for emphasis and effect here):
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| Apr 12 @ 11:58 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 13,662
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technical foul...
It turns out that older men chasing younger women contributes to human longevity and the survival of the species, according to new findings by researchers at Stanford and the University of California-Santa Barbara.
the article was based on a study.
.Pom was wrong in using the word "article" ..when she should have used the word.."report"
there is a difference between "opinion"..and "fact"...
btw....Pom was right..SG and mom lay awake nights plotting against her ...
[Edited on 4/12/2009 12:00 PM]
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| Apr 12 @ 11:58 AM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,061
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But it IS mentioned.
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| Apr 12 @ 12:01 PM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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pomegranate
Posts: 1,676
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So what that it's "mentioned?" By the way, does T in BandT stand for "trivial?" "Trite?" Or perhaps "tactless?" Can you put the usual petty bitchiness in you on vacation for one freaking day, for Pete's sake? It's EASTER SUNDAY!!!
[Edited on 4/12/2009 12:03 PM]
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| Apr 12 @ 12:02 PM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing
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pomegranate
Posts: 1,676
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"Article," "report," whatever.
And ...LOL..hey, it wouldn't surprise me.
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| Apr 12 @ 12:09 PM |
Old men chasing young women: A good thing |
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,061
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Yes, it's Easter Sunday and you could put aside your foul mouth for a day too.
DR's article talks about why older men might chase younger women and believe it or not, there are many older men who want to have children. There are many profile on MD that show this.
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