| Jan 17, 2006 @ 2:38 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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Every televangelist uses this rhetoric."USA is a Christian nation and since we abandoned it,we're going down the tubes because God is pissed"..The Founding Fathers were encouraged by the people to include language in the Constitution that identified the new country as a Christian nation but they resisted,and so the US Constitution states that all governmental power comes from the people NOT a higher supernatural power.
In addition in 1797,the US ratified a treaty with Tripoli that states in Article 11:"The Governement of the United States is not, in any sense,founded on the Christian religion;as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws,religion, or tranquility,of Mussulmen;and,as the said States never entered into any war,or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation,it is declared by the parties,that no pretext arising from religous opinions,shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
The US may be a majority Christian nation by population,but it's not a Christian nation by virtue of our godless constitution that vests all power in "We The People".
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 3:19 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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athleticguy311
Posts: 142
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The USA may not be quote "A Christian Nation" but just look at our currency. On every coin it says "In God we Trust" and also on every bill. The truth is that this nation was founded on Christian beliefs. That does not mean it is a Christian Nation however. 
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 4:28 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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But are we necessarily talking about the same "God".Look closely at the currency,especially a one dollar bill.You have "In God we trust",but you also have Pagan symbolism all over it as well.The Great Seal the cryptic Latin words "Anuit coeptus Novus Ordo Seclorum".Add tp that the fact that USA is comprised of a multitude of religions,ethinicities and lifestyles,and has always invited such,hardly makes it's principles exclusively "Christian".
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 8:47 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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Greystone1
Posts: 1,677
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Seems I recall reading somewhere that "In God we trust" was added to our coins and bills back in the 1950's, but I could be wrong on that.
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 9:04 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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waiting41
Posts: 1,926
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America is a "melting pot".
Separation of church and state is necessary.
We must respect all religions. It is not our place to judge.
"God is pissed."  He sure has alot to be "pissed" about in this world now, doesn't he? I won't mention any names here, but, there's alot of people I wouldn't want to be right now.
Not that Waiting is doing any judging here. That's His job. 
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 9:06 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,610
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I recall reading somewhere that "In God we trust" was added to our coins and bills back in the 1950's,
I looked it up, because I remember that 'under God' was added to the Pledge of Allegiance about then (it was 1954), so thought there might be some confusion. According to Google, 'In God we trust' was on a very short-lived two-cent coin back in 1863 and reappeared on quarters, silver dollars and half dollars in 1908, the penny in 1909, and on the dime in 1916. It was added to paper money in 1957.
Apparently our founding fathers thought separation of church and state was more important than many have believed since.
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 10:48 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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Greystone1
Posts: 1,677
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I looked it up, because I remember that 'under God' was added to the Pledge of Allegiance about then (it was 1954), so thought there might be some confusion. According to Google, 'In God we trust' was on a very short-lived two-cent coin back in 1863 and reappeared on quarters, silver dollars and half dollars in 1908, the penny in 1909, and on the dime in 1916. It was added to paper money in 1957.
Apparently our founding fathers thought separation of church and state was more important than many have believed since.
Thanks for setting the record straight. 
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| Jan 17, 2006 @ 11:02 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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The Constitution is a Preamble, then listed are the articles and then the amendmants.
Amendmant I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Whats there to argue? Not all states were joined at the time the Constitution was established. Not all religions today existed then.
If you understand what religion is, then you understand what Christianity is.
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| Jan 18, 2006 @ 10:22 AM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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Thor1960303
Posts: 3,345
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Whats there to argue? Not all states were joined at the time the Constitution was established. Not all religions today existed then.
If you understand what religion is, then you understand what Christianity is.
******************
So what are you saying?That separation of church and state are outdated?
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| Jan 18, 2006 @ 11:02 AM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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t_h_e_b_r_a_t
Posts: 386
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I think we were a "Christian Nation" before we had to get so politically correct. We probably still are, it just isn't pc to say so LOL
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| Jan 18, 2006 @ 11:09 AM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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exiled131
Posts: 1,808
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can we change it to read "In Corporations We Trust" yet?
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| Jan 19, 2006 @ 9:16 AM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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solitare
Posts: 120
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Having had relatives, family members with the "Intelligence services, I remember hearing the the utter didgust over the directions taken by those that actually run the country, such as the NSA, CIA, the 300, etc. etc. and what God came to really mean: GOD=Gold, Oil, Drugs and this was back in the 50's when the changes started to take effect. When one studies the Foreign Policies, it becomes crystal clear.
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| Jan 19, 2006 @ 9:03 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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This point is moot and has no bearing on facts. Not to mention there is a judge that will decide what the truth is and no one will be able to question that decision.
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| Jan 19, 2006 @ 9:17 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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Pete73052
Posts: 19,370
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Maybe... or maybe not. 
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 9:38 AM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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I thought that this might shed a little light in the darkness for those that cling to this untruth. This is a christian nation and has been since the outset. There are those that have achieved power that contort the truth to thier purposes, what ever that may be. A little research will reveal the truth to those that seek it. These are not opinions but facts. Here is a group of comments on the supreme court descision in the Trinity case of 1892.
S
"Whatever strikes at the root of Christianity tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government…because it tends to corrupt the morals of the people, and to destroy good order." (People v. Ruggles. 1811)
"If a State refused to let religious groups use facilities open to others, then it would demonstrate not neutrality but hostility toward religion." (Justice Sandra Day O'Connor)
"The Supreme Court has said that America is a Christian nation. But to make such a statement today causes reporters, newsmen, and many politicians to go ballistic." (p. 75. Character & Destiny. Ibid.)
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. It is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." (John Jay. The first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. 1816.)
"Through their judicial decisions , black-robed judges have put religion in serious trouble in the land of the free." (p. 49. The New Absolutes. Ibid.)
"We should not deny what is true: that from the Judeo-Christian tradition come our values, our principles, the animating spirit of our institutions." (Supreme Court. Aguilar v. Felton. 1985.)
"Under the First Amendment's prohibition of the establishment of religion, the Court has steadily made religion a matter for the private individual by driving it out of the public arena." (p. 102. Slouching Toward Gomorrah. Robert H. Bork. 1996.)
"The American Civil Liberties Union and other organizations are using the courts and threats of litigation to cleanse all Christian religious expression from American public life." (p. 146. Whitehead. Ibid.)
"But the greatest injury of the 'wall' notion is its mischievous diversion of judges from the actual intentions of the drafters of the Bill of Rights…The 'wall of separation between church and State' is a metaphor based on bad history, a metaphor which has proved useless as a guide to judging. It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned." (Justice William Rehnquist. Wallace v. Jaffree; 472 U.S. 38, 107 (1984) Dissenting.)
"To support its conclusion that 'this is a religious people…this is a Christian nation,' the Court paraded a veritable litany of precedents from American history: taken from Church of the Holy Trinity v. U.S.; 143 U.S. 457-458 (1892)."
"Christianity…is not to be maliciously and openly reviled and blasphemed against to the annoyance of believers or the injury of the public." (Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story. Vidal v. Girard's Executors. 43 U.S. 126, 198. 1844.)
"The Court attacked the long-standing tradition of school prayer and struck down this simple 22-word prayer from New York schools: 'Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our Country.'" ( Engel v. Vitale; 370 U.S. 421, 422. 1962.)
"The Court failed to cite even a single precedent to justify its prohibition of New York's voluntary prayers – a significant departure from a bedrock rule of jurisprudence. Why did it fail to cite precedent cases? There were none which would support its decision. For 170 years following the ratification of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, no Court had ever struck down any prayer, in any form, in any location." (David Barton. Original Intent. p. 159)
"I think that to deny the wish of these school children to join in reciting this prayer is to deny them the opportunity of sharing in the spiritual heritage of our Nation." (Justice Stewart. Engel at 445. Dissenting.)
"A refusal to permit religious exercises thus is seen, not as the realization of state neutrality, but rather as the establishment of a religion of secularism ." (Justice Stewart. Abington at 312-313. Dissenting.)
"The Establishment Clause does not require that the public sector be insulated from all things which may have a religious significance or origin…One can hardly respect the system of education that would leave the student wholly ignorant of the currents of religious thought that move the world society for a part in which he is being prepared." (Justice Rehnquist. Stone at 45, 46. Dissenting.)
"There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the Framers intended to build the 'wall of separation' that was constitutionalized in Everson." (Justice William Rehnquist. Wallace v. Jaffree (1985) at 106-107, 112. Dissenting.)
"History must judge whether it was the Father of his Country in 1789, or a majority of the Court today, which has strayed from the meaning of the Establishment Clause." (Justice Rehnquist. Wallace at 113-114. Dissenting.)
"The creche…is no more an advancement or endorsement of religion than the congressional and executive recognition of the origins of Christmas…To forbid the use of this one passive symbol…would be an overreaction contrary to this Nation's history." ( Lynch v. Donnelly at 669-670.)
"This Court is ill-equipped to sit as a national theology board, and I question both the wisdom and the constitutionality of its doing so." (Justice Kennedy. County of Allegheny at 547-548, 550.)
"The longstanding American tradition of prayer at official ceremonies displays with unmistakable clarity that the Establishment Clause does not forbid the government to accommodate it…It is a bold step for this Court to seek to banish…the expression of gratitude to God that a majority of the community wishes to make." ( Lee at 518. Justice Scalia. Dissenting.)
"The Constitution as the Supreme Court views it does not permit (prayer). Unfortunately, in this instance there is no middle ground…Those who are anti-prayer have thus been deemed the victors." (District Judge. Lee v. Weisman. 728 F. Supp. 68, 75. D.C. RI 1990.)
"The morality of the country is deeply engrafted upon Christianity." (People v. Ruggles. 1811.) p. 325
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 5:50 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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I may have missed the fine print, but all I've ever seen is "One Nation under GOD", "In GOD we trust", "So help me GOD"...
Pardon me, but when did it change to "One Nation under CHRIST", "In CHRIST we trust" or "So help me CHRIST"? 
(I've always felt "God" was something completely personal to each individual, not an identified, narrowly defined entitiy)
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 6:29 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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I totally agree with you there "Sunbabe"...
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 6:46 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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Thanks for going to all that trouble sealacamp. :-)
Being Canadian, I don't place the same importance on this particular "identity-thing" as you.
God "sees" your heart my friend. 
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 8:41 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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Try " He that has seen me has seen the father." The founders of this nation knew that too. There is no difference you see. Or maybe you don't.
Disclaimer: ( You refers to people in general and is not directed toward anyone specifit but rather toward everyone in general.)
Being Canadian, I don't place the same importance on this particular "identity-thing" as you.
It is not really that. I am just tired of the blindness that prevents people from seeing the truth and continuing to perpetuate a lie that grew from I don't know where. Those are the findings of the courts of this nation after extensive research into the history of how this nation came to be. Nuff said. Those that know will know those that don't won't.
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In 1892, the Supreme Court declared in Church of the Holy Trinity vs. United States, that America was a Christian nation from its earliest days. After examining a full range of historical documents, Associate Justice David J. Brewer concluded that Americans are “a religious people. This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation.”
The Court’s survey from Christopher Columbus to current state constitutions concluded that:
There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning; they affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances; they speak the voice of the entire people.
If we pass beyond these matters to a view of American life as expressed by its laws, its business, its customs and its society, we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth. Among other matters, note the following: The form of oath universally prevailing, concluding with an appeal to the Almighty; the custom of opening sessions of all deliberative bodies and most conventions with prayer; the prefatory words of all wills, “In the name of God, amen”; the laws respecting the observance of the Sabbath, with the general cessation of all secular business, and the closing of courts, legislatures, and other similar public assemblies on that day; the churches and church organizations which abound in every city, town and hamlet; the multitude of charitable organizations existing everywhere under Christian auspices; the gigantic missionary associations, with general support, and aiming to establish Christian missions in every quarter of the globe. These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.
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BTW the Pilgrims were the first Europeans to settle in what is now the United States. What beliefs did they have?
[Edited on 1/29/2006 9:14 PM]
[Edited on 1/29/2006 9:21 PM]
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| Jan 29, 2006 @ 8:45 PM |
USA the Christian nation...NOT |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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"Seal", I just found a very interesting website and to everyone else that likes the research challenge. Here it is:
http://www.embassyofheaven.com/topics/notchristian.htm#ARTICLE%2011
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