| Apr 30, 2006 @ 7:34 PM |
Home Renovations
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,686
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Chip board, otherwise known as OSB ( Oriented Strand Board ) is good for some things but I would never, never put that on stairs or leave it on stairs no matter what component of the stairs it was. That stuff is trash for that application. However you live there and if you like it then I like it too.
S
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| Apr 30, 2006 @ 9:52 PM |
Home Renovations |
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stgrizzvi
Posts: 148
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Before you stain, make sure that you sand any colored marks off. Fill the holes in the "chip" board with spackle, knifed in tight. Wet the wood with water before you stain. This will raise the grain. Stain after you sand the raised grain. The sanding goes very quick. Use fine papaer- 220 grit is sufficient. I prefer a clear laquer stain base because I make my own colors, and the laquer wipes easily and dries rapidly. It does however emit strong fumes, and should only be used with adequate ventilation. It is also flamable. You should wear a respirator if you use this product. Oil stain also works well, but also has a strong odor. There may be some water stains available now days that a person can wipe. If you sand after you stain, take the 220 grit and sand it with the back, or printed side. This will be plenty because all you will want to do is to smooth down any grain that may have re-raised after the stain, plus you don't sand thoughh the stain this way.Before you stain, it is important to check for color, so you should have a piece of pine to practice on. Sometimes, if you have questions, a store that sells flooring products, such as HomeDepot or Lowe's can sometimes give good advice. Also, they offer classes for the do-it-yourselfer that may be helpful. Some paint stores have classes on various aspects of painting, and can answer specific questions concerning the best finishes for your area and circumstances. To fill the holes in the pine, wait til after you stain, use colored putty. This is available at paint stores, hardware stores, places such as lowe's and Home Depot. Take a sample of your stained sample with you to get an idea of the color putty you need. Putty smooths easily, without the need to sand. It can smear though, so do not over fill to much so you keep the wiping down. I use my finger to put the putty in holes. I would suggest you use water borne products for your top coats where ever you can because of the toxicity and environmental factors, as well as drying time. There are some very durable water borne, (water base), products that are out there now days. Plus some of these flow and level off as good as oil. Again, ask local stores what they recomend. Some products do better in arid environments, and conversly, some products are better suited to more humid conditions. After you varnish or whatever top coat you use, then you can paint you risers. First, prime the "chip" board, I like to use Zinzor's 1-2-3. It sands well and has good pigment strength, plus it covers most stains. Then sand smooth, then caulk any voids, wipe clean. Anything that you get on the varnish will wipe up easily, as long as you wipe it up before it dries. This includes any paint. That is why you varnish before you paint. After you "cut" the risers, take a two inch putty knife, wrape a rag around it, and wipe the varnish at the paint joint. Sand the primer. Dust and enamel. The cleaner the surface on any paint or varnish project,the better the outcome. On your finish coat of varnish, if there is any roughness, it can sometimes be taken out by using the reverse side of your 220 grit, or even a paper bag. Otherwise, you may have to sand it out. Good luck.
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| May 1, 2006 @ 1:22 AM |
Home Renovations
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painter007
Posts: 17,921
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If you get dents and scratches in pine you just put a damp cloth over the dent and the a steam iron on top. should take most of the dent out.
With your clear coat make sure to sand the wood first...wipe really well so all dust is off........ then one coat of clear coat. if you add a second make sure to sand before applying so it gives the second coat some "bite" to attach to. dont shake the clear coat........... stir gently or bubbles will appear
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| May 1, 2006 @ 7:59 AM |
Home Renovations |
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Cupcake43130
Posts: 1,747
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This is a great thread and one I have found very informative. I am gearing up to strip several coats of paint off my kitchen cabinets to see just what kind of wood is under there. Don't have a clue, but has to be better than the paint that's on there now. Has anyone else done this? I watched a kitchen renovation show over the weekend on HGTV and got some good tips. The couple that did it made several mistakes in how they approached the project, so I did pick up some pointers. I can tell it will be a time consuming project....even more so tackling it alone. But I feel the results will be worth it if I find decent wood underneath the 10 coats of paint. Any suggestions would be appreciated before I get myself up to my eyeballs in paint stripper.
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| May 1, 2006 @ 10:07 AM |
Home Renovations
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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Cupcake
I would suggest you do one small area first to see what kind of wood it is. If it's a good wood, oak pine etc, then go nutz. But check. You don't want to go to all that trouble only to find out it's crappy wood.
There are several really good paint strippers on the market. I prefer Circa 1850 full body because it's easy to strip off a million layers of paint but it IS very caustic so you want thick gloves, old clothes and an area that is really well ventilated. Old coffee tins for depositing the removed paint, and some bevelled scrapers. This stuff does burn on contact but it cuts the elbow grease down. Just have to be respectful when you're using it.
I'm going to be doing my kitchen in the next 6 months and I'm in the same boat. The doors are from the late 70's so I'm going to replace those with good wood doors and do what is called "resurfacing". Basically you "glue" a wood veneer, such as oak or pine, to the existing cabinet frame. Replace hardware etc.
As soon as the warmer weather is here I'm going to start finishing the stairs but I need it to be relatively warmish weather so I can properly ventilate it. I'm going to print off the suggestions. Thanks guys and girls 
Painter thanks for the tip about the pine. These stairs are old and there are certainly more than a few "character" dents in them. One area is actually fairly worn down. Not sure what to do here. Might have to replace it.
ANyone ever heard of Powder Post Beetles? Boric Acid? Anyone?
[Edited on 5/1/2006 10:11 AM]
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| May 1, 2006 @ 10:11 AM |
Home Renovations |
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mangolover60
Posts: 635
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This stuff does burn on contact but it cuts the elbow grease down. Just have to be respectful when you're using it.
Remember to wear safety goggles when using this stuff. If anything, it prevents you from rubbing your eyes.
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| May 1, 2006 @ 12:41 PM |
Home Renovations
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painter007
Posts: 17,921
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they have a organic stripper that does burn your skin..but still wear protective gear....If yo want to check the wood look on inside of door. Also you need to find out if the paint is oil or latex based. Take PAINT STRIPPER OR FINGERNAIL POLISH IF IT COMES OFF ITS OIL BASE PAINT STRIPPER ONLY WORKS ON OIL IT WONT REMOVE WATER BASE oops sorry on the caps
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| May 1, 2006 @ 3:30 PM |
Home Renovations |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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PAINT STRIPPER ONLY WORKS ON OIL IT WONT REMOVE WATER BASE
I didnt' know this. Weren't most kitchens, long ago., done in oil?
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| May 1, 2006 @ 4:32 PM |
Home Renovations
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stgrizzvi
Posts: 148
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Cupcake-
Stay away from strippers that have Methylene Chloride. I do not think it is available anymore, but it is very toxic. Be sure to follow all safety warnings on any stripper can that you use. You should wear a respirator and have good air flow, as a rule. Not a dust mask. You will probably never get all the paint out of the grain, even if you use steel wool. Your best bet would be to have the doors dipped by a company, if you really want to go that route. In any event, you should, of course, remove the doors and use the stripper outside if possible. You will also have to protect anything that you do not want ruined with card board, sheet plastic or some other leak resisting material. You will also likely have to rinse the stripped wood thorougly to remove the stripper residue. You might want to strip only the doors and paint the cabinet. Another thing you need to keep in mind is disposing of the goop. If you do it over plastic, you can carefully wrap it up in the plastic, before you rinse.
This whole process really is a lot of work and is quite messy. After the wood is dry and there is no residue, sand the wood to both smooth it and to remove any unwanted marks or stains. Dust the wood. First coat- a pre stain sealer. This equalizes the poreosity of the wood and makes the wood take the stain in a more uniform manner. If the grain raises, you can sand it with a small paper bag's paper. It really doesn't take much. Now you are ready for your stain coat. It is always best to have a piece of similar wood that you have prepared the same way as the cabinets to test your stain color with. Once you have the stain color and stain, you can proceed. If you can find a wiping water borne stain, that is probably what you would want to use because of the odor and the amount of time the odor takes to dissipate when using oil or laquer. I like laquer, but the odor is quite strong . Then I like to spray clear laquer over the stain, but this is truely something you don't want to do unless you are experienced at it. Ask your local paint stores which products they would recommend. Explain what you are doing to them. There are some very nice water borne clear coats out there now days. One thing about the water base is it won't yellow like oil has a tenancy to do. Always sand lightly between coats and dust well. Remember when you are sanding that sharp edges are easy to sand through. Depending on the size of you kitchen, this may take several weeks. Remember that the bigger of a hurry you get in, the more likely you are to make mistakes. When guessing your time, do not forget to include the time to remove the doors, going to the store for materials, re-assembling, drying time between coats,and incidentals. You will also quite likely spend a fair amount of time on each piece. Remember also that you will likely be using several coats of stripper on each piece. The more detail your cabinets have, the longer it will take.
I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
It may be cheaper, easier and faster to have them re-faced.
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| May 2, 2006 @ 5:35 AM |
Home Renovations |
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Cupcake43130
Posts: 1,747
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Hmmmm......now I'm not sure what to do. I know I'm in for a hell of a huge job stripping the cabinets down. I may do a test area to see if it is really worth all the trouble. I have no idea what kind of wood they are. And I have noticed that the cabinet doors on the bottom don't match the ones on top, so I'm thinking the woods might not even match.
Wicked-the '"resurfacing" you mentioned-is it a DIY project or does it need to be professionally done? I'm one to tackle as much on my own as I can....love the challenge...which is why I decided to strip instead of replace.
I have used paint strippers before and know you have to use them with great care. Going to try the nailpolish remover trick. I have a feeling there is waterbased paint on them now. The previous owners painted them right before I bought the house 6 months ago. I wasn't aware that striipers only work on oil based paint. If I find it is water based....what will remove it? Are there strippers for water based paints?
Beginning to wonder if it might be easier to just replace the cabinets after all!!!! Was looking forward to a challenging project. This may prove to be more than I bargained for. Appreciate all the advise. Now I just have to decide what I'm going to do.
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| May 2, 2006 @ 9:05 AM |
Home Renovations
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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Cupcake,
Stripping and refinishing furniture is generally only worth the time and effort if it is made from a hardwood such as walnut or oak. If your cabinets are made from pine or (worse) a composite of materials, you should just replace the cabinets. Softwoods are easy to grow and therefore not very valuable. That is why it is so important to identify the type of wood before you begin the project. 
Here is a link which may help you identify the type of wood:
http://www.nwfinewoodworking.com/wood_types/index.htm
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| May 2, 2006 @ 9:09 AM |
Home Renovations |
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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And here is another:
http://www.forestshop.com/WOOD.html
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| May 2, 2006 @ 9:24 AM |
Home Renovations
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Cupcake43130
Posts: 1,747
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Thanks for the links...I will definately check them out before I make a decision as to what I'm going to do.
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| May 2, 2006 @ 9:41 AM |
Home Renovations |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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RareQuestor
There are many many different kinds of beautiful wood besides oak and walnut. There's cherry, maple, mohogany, pine, teak,birch,beech, ash, rosewood and the list goes on
Even if the wood isn't "valuable" per say it can still be very beautiful when finished and "hard" varathanes can be applied to increase the durability. The other benefit of working with a "soft" wood is that it's more forgiving than a hard wood is.
Morning CupCake
"Resurfacing" can be either a DIY or you can have someone do it for you. Either option is still considerably less expensive than replacing all the cabinets.
Up here in Canada they sell "wood veneers" made of pine or oak. Basically varying lengths and widths of the preferred wood that I think has glue on the back. Now I have researched what types of wood there are to use on the cabinet frames but I haven't gotten as far as finding out the "how you apply" it to the frame part yet. Haven't gotten into if you need to prep the surface of the frame either but I would guess you likely do need to do that for better adhesion. I suspect from looking at it that it's glued on using some sort of heat as a catalyst but don't quote me on that. Like I said I haven't researched that part yet.
For replacing the doors my gameplan was to buy a sheet or possibly two of pine or oak. I'm sure it's universal but here in Canada you can buy them for about $50 for a 4X 8 sheet. For a dollar a cut I can have it cut to my specifications then take it home and stain/varathane it.
OR you can buy just the doors but some places I've checked at will only sell "standard" sized doors. Getting them cut to odd sizes would likely cost more money.
If you go ahead and do this Cupcake I'd be real interested in knowing how it progesses. If I start before you I'll let you know how it goes too
Most projects I do are DIY. I actually really enjoy doing it and am surprised by how nice it turns out some times. Currently I'm looking at buying a mitre saw but they price anywhere from $130 up to and over $1000. I'm don't think buying one that's going to cost $1000 will be in my budget.....I don't do enough stuff to warrant it at least not currently
I just did my patio (retaining wall, pergola and lattice on nasty old brown fence )and tried to post a "before and after" pic but because my mugshot wasn't in it MD wouldn't let me post it. Came out the best yet too
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| May 2, 2006 @ 10:02 AM |
Home Renovations
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Cupcake43130
Posts: 1,747
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Morning Wicked. I had planned to start on my project within the next couple weeks. Going to go check out some paint strippers and see what is recommended for the cabinets first. Figure out how much I will need and such. Luckily my kitchen isn't huge. 13 cabinet doors and 6 drawer fronts....not too bad, but I know it will be a huge project regardless. My house was built in 1900, but I dont think the cabinets are original to the house. I'm sure over the years they have been replaced....especially the upper doors since they don't match the bottom ones. I'm thinking even if the wood isn't an expensive wood underneath, once I get them stripped, sanded down and a good finish on them...they will look great. Throw on some new hinges and hardware and I'll be set. Anything would look better than the way they look now. And I enjoy a DIY project. The sense of satisfaction when it's done can't be beat. I'm not one to shy away from a challenge, and this will definately be one. I plan to take pics throughout my project....before, during and after. I'll keep you posted as to when I get started and how it is progressing. I've really got the itch to get started now!!!
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| May 2, 2006 @ 5:57 PM |
Home Renovations |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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Evening Cupcake
You go girl!!! I'd love to see " as we go" pics and have fun!!
Wicked
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| May 2, 2006 @ 8:58 PM |
Home Renovations
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RareQuestor
Posts: 3,069
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Wench, you are correct that there many types of beautiful wood. I acknowledge that my post was based on a few assumptions which may or may not be correct. I assumed that the fact that the cabinets had been painted meant that the wood was not particularly beautiful, but that may not be true. A previous owner could have just had really bad taste or maybe the cabinets were painted to eliminate a health hazard. If the wood is beautiful, then it is certainly worth the labor. I also assumed that different species of wood might be involved since the cabinet doors on the bottom don't match the ones on top which means that if she strips the cabinets and just applies a stain or a varnish she would still end up with a different grain on the two sets of cabinets. Stripping paint is such a labor and time consuming task, however, that I stand by my advice. It is based on hard experience: My father has a "Captain's chair" which I have been intermittently striving to refurnish during the past couple of years. I have been using sandpaper and chemical strippers and am still not finished. 
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| May 2, 2006 @ 10:06 PM |
Home Renovations |
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WickedWench
Posts: 1,613
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LOL Rare
One chair..... 2 years ???
Not that keen on the project it would seem.
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| May 2, 2006 @ 11:55 PM |
Home Renovations
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keeno
Posts: 2,363
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here's my tip on refinishing....rather than using nasty chemicals. get a heat gun a good one is $75 and a 2" stiff putty knife and a file to reshape the knife. a welders glove is used to protect your knife hand. by cutting one side of the knife to about a 20 to 25 degree angle. use the gun toheat up the edge of the stripped surface and then start cutting the paint off, once so started you can rest the fan part of the gun on the welders glove, you then just slide it down the surface removing most if not all of the paint. it takes a little practice but is very easy and quick. my kichen cabinets had 15 coats of paint on them but turned out to be old growth fir frames and plywood doors also fir. it took me 3 yrs to restore my old craftsman bungalow, stripping all of the old wood work and doors and yes floors.
hope this is some help and an alternative to chemicals. good luck, ken
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| May 3, 2006 @ 11:51 AM |
Home Renovations |
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Orphes1
Posts: 347
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I was a Registered (licensed) Construction Contractor for 25 years.
The easiest way, is to use "sidecutters". They look a lot like a pair of pliers with a broad, flared head on them. The corners of the sidecutters are very sharp and very pointed. Gently tap the two corners over the staples, with the two sides of the sidecutters on either side of the staple. Cut the staple in the middle, then grab the end of each of the two halves, and squeez to get a good grip. Rock the staple back (the edges of the sidecutters are rounded for this purpose) and pull the sides out one at a time. It is very easy to do this, because the sidecutters are designed (specifically) for this purpose and therefore afford a lot of leverage to complete the task.
Good luck girl
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