| Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:06 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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Xavier0777
Posts: 186
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Talk about a certain chaotic madness on here. I have read both sides and wanted to post equally on each. Though I find myself at a bit of a cross roads and have a question for you all. Probably the most important one I have asked yet. "What in your life caused you to believe the way you do" I am finging that my standing in my faith in not as secure as I once thought. I have read alot though still see all the holes in the "religion" thing. I see alot of christians my own name sake doing things far worse than our secular brothers.
In this life we are given all this knowledge and then in faith when we ask questions we are told how small we are in the picture of it all, and that are questions should just be prayed over. Sometimes I wonder if I got a bad connection, not that I am expecting to here a certain answer though more so any answer. I am always told to take things on faith and then when the answers are not the right decisions I am told that my faith likely was just not strong enough. (head down)
What do you do as a person when you just do not believe alot of what the "church" as a body says. Though you want faith in your life ?
I guess I am wondering about peoples expiriences with faith and an understanding. I have always been the walking question and answer machine, always had the right answer to faith and to Jeopardy, though my knowledge does not seem to help the growing nothingess I feel inside over faith.
I hear you all talk so passionately about each of your chosen beliefs. What keeps you thinking the way you do each day ? What inner force do you pull from yourself or through you expiriences to not let this "void" of sorts over take you ?
- Xavier
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| Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:18 PM |
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danae74
Posts: 601
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What an excellent question, Xavier! I won't participate in the negative banter, but I share your real interest in learing about others' beliefs. Here's my little story:
I could never accept the Christian beliefs as taught to me from my childhood, and went through a spell of bitter agnosticism. Then I was a rather devout Wiccan/NeoPagan for quite a few years; the idea of a multifaceted pantheon of god/desses really appealed to me intuitively. Then, I drifted away from the "trappings" of that, too. Now, while I consider myself a very faith-filled person, I refuse to intellectualize my own personal spirituality into an explainable dogma. I'm a huge fan/supporter of persons like Joseph Campbell who seek to find the common in all religious expressions. That's what's important to me now: finding the good and helpful in any faith.
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| Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:28 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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Xavier0777
Posts: 186
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Oddly enough even though I have knowledge I always came to faith like a 10 year old i thought. Wow christians you die and get this great retirement package in heavena nd all you have to do is believe that some guy you do not know dies for your sins. To this day not one person will break that down for me. Any questions I have that our depth filled are often shunned, I do not get that. Then I look at the other faiths and some seem like they work and others are a bit odd to my tastes though in the end I am still left in this void. I understand a "faith" as is, does not need to bow to a certain "believer" of said faith, though if you are you for all of your life, shouldn't you be able to feel comfortable and that you have a clue as to what you belive in.
I was just hoping that through the words of the ppl on the board I could see some truths and stuff. Your words rock
"danae74"
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| Nov 18, 2005 @ 5:34 PM |
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DEVIL_U_KNOW
Posts: 113
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X, i shared the same delimma for years, then i realized something, it wasn't me, i just came to realize that the church no matter which one it is, is gonna make its own doctrines and laws that you have to abide by. i grew up southern baptist, loved my church, and out preacher was one of the most faithful of anyone i had ever met. he had seribal palsy (i think thats how its spelled) and he believed that god would heal him as long as his faith held and he would be made whole again. he died when i was 12 because of his medical condition. at that point i started wondering why would god let one of his most loyal suffer so, and then not be there when he needed them the most. so i started questioning religion, and come to the conclusion that it is just faith in something that i didn't think i could believe in again. then years went by and i found i missed some of it. you know the knowledge that there is something out there that is worried about us. so i tried different religions from all over. and couldn't find anything that seemed to work. so i came up with an idea. why do i need a middle man to talk to god? why not just talk to him myself, on my terms and time. i have nothing against any religion, i just found it easier to not bother with them and never pick a denomination to go with.
I was shunned by a penocostal church because i was divorced, but watched as they let a known drug dealer to kids walk in and share in the service. and that clinched it for me. I walked away from the church and never looked back. it has worked for me for years. i put my faith in myself, and what i know and my abilities. and only ask for guidenece when i need it. but have the simple policy of if i can do it, i don't need to bother him with it.
hope that helps in my rambling. lol. but for what its worth i have heard the term "your faith wasn't strong enough" one to many times said to friends of mine. don't know how that could be in some cases.
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| Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:07 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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zestful
Posts: 235
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What do you do as a person when you just do not believe alot of what the "church" as a body says. Though you want faith in your life ?
My opinion about that question is to not be concerned about what one church or another says as a body.
If you truly want and believe the son of God is your savior your faith will be rewarded whether or not you are active in any church.
What keeps you thinking the way you do each day ?
1-When I was younger my father had a heart {email address removed} evening mom told us to pray for him because it didnt look good.I did,he lived to be 79.I havent stopped praying to this day.
2-I have been given two of Gods children to raise for him.
3-In addition to falling off of a silo,dropping 3500 ft to 400 ft in a power off stall piloting a Cessna 150 I also had a 100% recovery after hitting a semi headon in heavy fog,spending 2 months in the hospital and another two months in head rehab.
I dont believe in luck.
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| Nov 18, 2005 @ 6:34 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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heartofstone_nc
Posts: 17
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I believe in Jesus and God and that Jesus died for my sins and that I am alive, able to speack and walk because of him.
Three years ago I collapsed in a grand mal seizure (I had NEVER had a seizure before in my LIFE). I stayed in this seizure for 8 hours and when I came out of it I was unconcious for another 8 hours and in ICU for 3 days. The first micracle according to the doctors is that I even lived and was able to speak, feed myself, etc. Secondly that I walked out of the hospital.
I still have some short term memory issues and trouble concentrating, but considering what it COULD be I am grateful and thankful for everything I cant do. Lets add to that the numberous times as a child I has asthma attacks and died (twice that my family speaks of alot since they were the scariest) and the time my mom fell while holding me and I stopped breathing....hmmmmmm...I see a pattern with me and air not getting to my brain. May explain a lot of things. 
ANYWAY...lol
So am I religious? Yep. But I do not let mans interpertation(sp) of the Bible tell me how to live my life. I feel I have to live MY life for me, and the only person that can judge me will judge us all (or all that believe) someday.
JM2C 
Kia 
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 2:34 AM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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Xavier0777
Posts: 186
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I guess it is a bit of an inner choice. I just see the strengths on both sides of that faith choice. Those who belive and those who do not. There seems to be this road we walk down at times in our lives, as I walk down mine I am just concerned that I do not pick the wrong path to follow insde.
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 2:56 AM |
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buni
Posts: 966
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xavier...I think deep down inside, your heart knows which path to follow. 
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 3:02 AM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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truth456
Posts: 61
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xavier said:
I guess it is a bit of an inner choice. I just see the strengths on both sides of that faith choice. Those who belive and those who do not. There seems to be this road we walk down at times in our lives, as I walk down mine I am just concerned that I do not pick the wrong path to follow insde.
To me, it seems that all paths lead to the top of the mountain, only taking different routes. Each person rides the donkey of their choice as they ascend (some faster than others) up the paths toward the ultimate summit where all paths converge.
Each seeker sees the others on their paths, and laughs at them or taunts them because from their viewpoint, the others look so ridiculously silly, riding their donkey and all ... forgetting all the time that we must look just as silly on our donkey.
But who really needs a donkey?... a seeker might rely upon his own strength and simply put one foot in front of the other.
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 6:19 AM |
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soulless_spirit
Posts: 444
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Let me dig down why i left my religion ...
i was placed at age 4 in an catholic roman orphanage run by nuns, my dad had the wide horizon that i should pick my believe when i was old enough to understand...
Well this did not run to good with the nuns i was not baptized and they let me feel it ...when the other kids got cake i got a piece of dry bread, i was forced to go to church and learn all the prayers and songs known to the roman catholic church, now being a child i wanted to be treated like the rest so at age 7 i begged my dad to have me baptized to the roman catholic church. In the small town this was a thing unheard of and it was the biggest baptisim known to them ...
When i grew up we were kept seperate from the boys ... when i turned into a young girl growing into womanhood and i had my first monthly they kept me seperated from the group for those days each month ... all the girls where shunned for a natural god given happeing in a young womans body ...
we would watch them preach to us about purity why they kept porno magazines hidden in their bathrooms, had salesman come selling massaging gears from the finest.
I was forbidden to see my dad because someone in that small town reported to the head nun that my dad would frequent the local stripbar ... All my dad said to them was the pig that reported this had to be there to see him ...and called the police ...
i was locked up for 14 days because some woman in my hometown was mad she wasnt allowed to see her kids and picked someone to vent on and reported that during my visit at my aunts ( by the way my aunt was an strict Jehova Witness and live by their laws )i would roam the streets and have sex ... i was 12 at the time ... an investigation was started and i had to go to an doctor to proof i was still virgin ... emotional pain of that carried long in me ...
Bad was the rumors do to that the looks i got in school ... a small town imagine the religious hypocrites...
So yes i didtched the phoney church they hypocrites that would walk to church with a smile but give hell to a lil child ... Dont come knocking on my door ... i believe but i believe in the nature its evolution ...
soulless
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 12:35 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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buni
Posts: 966
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soulles spirit...that was horrible! I'm so sorry you had to go through that crap.That was just wrong.
No wonder you felt the need to leave.I would have wanted to leave too((((HUGS))))
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 1:28 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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skinnybarncat
Posts: 368
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X, you have courage.... there are many perspectives and considerations to take into acount....each perspective is valid from it's viewpoint...but, no two people really share a viewpoint totally....
one perspective is to see it as layers such as an onion.
each layer of a different flavor, whether aeomatic or a stench .... at the center core is pure ignorance, and each layer is built upon that...a mystic/prophet may add a sweet layer of truth...others will take that mystic's information and turn it into a foul layer of their own...other layers may be truth to begin with only to have a small infecteous cancer introduced which grows and overcomes...
i always consider the critics view of something. i can learn more about a cult from a critic than i can from the narrow teachings of the cult, though i also study those teachings.
i was given permission many years ago by a very wise teacher to "view god in a way that i can understand as a start"....from that point i began to learn....the first thing i learned was how little i knew....that has not changed much....but, i have been "shown", by various means, some things that approach "truth"....i'm still peeling back layers, some to keep some to discard...when i reach the core, i hope to have enough wisdom to not see that pure ignorance as knowledge.... 
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 5:09 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 14,787
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i'm still peeling back layers, some to keep some to discard...when i reach the core, i hope to have enough wisdom to not see that pure ignorance as knowledge....
For me, the core is simply Occam's razor: one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything. It may be knowledge or it may be pure ignorance, but in the final analysis nothing can be proven. Devotion to a religion, faith, belief or non-belief...each of us makes our own choice and I'm grateful that we all have that choice. If there is some creator that's external to ourselves, I suspect that he or she that created us can deal with what s/he created...regardless of whether we're the inherently analytical ones (OK, doubting Thomases) or those who can make the giant leap of faith. And if not, we've all lived the lives we've chosen. I don't need to validate my beliefs (or lack thereof) by convincing anyone else. Meanwhile, Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Moslems, Baahists, Buddhists, Shintoists, Confucianists, Atheists, Agnostics and anyone else I missed, luvya all! And I suspect that God/the Universe/the Force or anything else that may or may not exist, does (or would) too!
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 8:15 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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LovinMotha4ya
Posts: 4
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Be it that results are suited in threes. Who said, "Thesis - Anti-thesis = Synthesis?" I want to tell a story, not to offend, but to entertain. God is GOOD. Simple. Everything that comes from God is Good. God is an energy source of Goodness. God had already given "life", but as good is good is good they were inherently good. No free choice. They were spirited and lovely but were capable only of beauty and good-will. Love was the life force.
A desire to love that is. But this is not quite a relationship of love. God desired to relate His Goodness to an entity that would relate back out of desire for Him. A desire that was perfect and included the power to create at free-will, like God. Man was created in perfection and so it was for thousands upon thousands of years. Men lived to be 1000 years old, and in this lifetime they maintained or retained their perfection such that they returned to God and eternal life. But remember you can't mix oil and water.
There came a time when man created what we know today as mythology. They put themselves into animals, plants, rocks. There were the centaurs, eagle-lion things, etc. Remember mythology-WOW, but true. (We) forgot who and what we were. We had now "fallen from grace." God could no longer take that which was not like Him back.
Love and free-will explain what we see today. God allows us to continue out of Love and hopes that we may return to Him, but a misguided free-will painfully separates the One. God multiplies 1X1X1X1X1X1X1ad infinitum, such that the answer is always One. Laws, and rules were necessary as the only means of mercy and hope. Man had brought death upon himself. There was no second chance. There would be no eternal life, death had previously been unknown to God. Man was now evolving in a downward spiral. "God cried." And out of the purest formation we know of Love, God created the "many mansions" and another chance, or reincarnation.
There are Karmic and Cosmic Counsels which oversee our creation. They have different names now, but they are the Krishnas, the Yogi's, Jesus, Mary, Joseph, etc. As well as ascended Masters from other places. (Our name- Persons or the Pure Sons of God. Alpha to Omega hence we get atom.) These people have to come up with the ideas and efforts to motivate and direct us. They make huge sacrifices. God was losing His loving creation, not because He is not all powerful, but because of free-will.. He could only supply the Power, Man had to know how to utilize it for Happiness. That was the intrigue in this relationship. We had to love and serve God because we wanted to. And if we did, we could do that which living Masters still do today and have done in the past, because it is their life's devotion.
Anyway, we spiraled into the caveman, where nature was not able to provide us with the knowledge of fire. We could no longer maintain our place in orbit. We were to be swung off the axis. There was no link to the Power Source-man was lost and could no longer maintain a place in the spheres for lack of energy. A Cosmic Counsel was called and the person known in Daniel as the "Ancient of Days" "came and took his throne." This is who they tried to build Shamballah for. It was never completed. It says that the Angels were being defeated until the Ancient of Days took his throne. Then it talks about it now becoming possible for the coming of the Lamb/Lion...
This master took the 100's of thousands of light year energy garnered within his aura and entered a desperate world in hopes of teaching us to rekindle the light within our hearts-the Holy Spirit. If he failed, he and his men that were allowed to come with him, would receive second death. When God granted reincarnation that ended "death." Yet second death is still possible. That means no reincarnation, no ascension. It means we evolved from perfection into nothingness. We learn that nothing ever really goes away, trash, etc., however this would be the exception.
Souls now passed through many phases in an evolutionary manner, just as we see on Earth. For now, yes we are allowed to continue, in spite of ourselves, into what is an effort at reclaiming eternity. Once again, you can't mix oil and water.
Think about Hobbes' description of man's life as nasty, brutish, and short. It still holds true today. I think once we were given free-will, evolution became the expression, but was never to necesitate in and of itself, a negative. Jesus is 2000 years more powerful than he was as Jesus. He just keeps on evolving-positively in Goodness. The outside mirrors the inside. We look at physical evolution when both that and the evolution of mind are by-products of Spirit. Mind does not exist without Spirit, and its scope and depth is granted as to the scope and depth of the soul. Physical evolution is maintained by Spirit. Scientists amuse me. They put the cart in front of the horse and then find a way to eliminate the horse. And then they state that it isn't ready yet. Truth has no time frame, it is always ready!
There is truth to both sides, they just need to integrate. Thesis-Anti-thesis=Synthesis
All of this debate is very important. The Truth must surface if we are to survive. The Church is the bad guy because they are hiding our origins, inspite of their Creatio
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 8:37 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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cutelildevilsmom
Posts: 38
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myself i keep it simple.Its between me and God.I ask him for guidance when I find myself at a crossroads.Prayers are not always answered the way you would like but you are given what you need,when you need it.I abhor organized religion because people are hypocrites.the televangelists preach Jesus but worship money.People use the Bible to condemn whole sections of people.So like I said at the beginning ,I just talk to God or Jesus directly and eliminate the middlemen.
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 9:31 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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truth456
Posts: 61
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LovinMotha4u said:
I want to tell a story, not to offend, but to entertain.
Thanks! Great story! Very entertaining! 
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 10:37 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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L8angel
Posts: 60
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I agree with Heartofstone and Cuteleldevilsmom. My faith is simple. I do not assign to God the mistakes that people make. We as humanity do terrible things because we're imperfect and in need of God. I let God speak to me through his spirit and his Word, and let the religions of this world go on their merry way.....
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| Nov 19, 2005 @ 11:46 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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Xavier0777
Posts: 186
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I am so overwhelmed at how cool this thread is, so nice and depth filled, thanks to all of you. 
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| Nov 20, 2005 @ 12:31 AM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum
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Inconspicuous
Posts: 13
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christian -> deist -> atheist -> agnostic -> ?
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| Nov 20, 2005 @ 6:58 PM |
To The Non Christians & The Christians & To Every Other Faith On Our Forum |
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SpicySapphire
Posts: 50
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It seems these days alot churches believes they are "THE ONE AND ONLY" I personally believe in God and Jesus Christ and all the incredible possibilities out there but thats MY choice. I think that we even have a choice in the matter is pretty amazing. There are good and bad to all faiths from Christianity to Buddhism to Wiccan. Bottom line they all appear to teach the same basic thing: be good to each other and everything around you. Isn't that all that matters anyway? My kids all have different beliefs and I don't care with faith they choose to follow as long as they are good to themselves and each other and show compassion to those around them. I would hope that they believe in some kind of higher power because lets face it, life can be tough and for me it's nice to know that the buck doesn't always stop here.
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