| Dec 19, 2007 @ 6:59 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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I've just been reading a few comments posted by brits on a blog I consider to be in extreme poor taste. ( Not the comments but the blog itself) I found these comments to be somewhat unusual as it has been my experience that brits normally stay out of such disputes. Part of that impression has come, in no small measure, due to having a wife from the UK. From what she tells me it is considered rude for a brit to comment on internal issue of the USA, such as racism---as it is entails very complicated issues, any of which can easily lend themselves to inadvertly offending someone. Also, she tells me no brit cares to involve themselves in activities that are as uncivil and crude as the type being engaged in on this blog.
http://www.matchdoctor.com/blog_76610/Another_Black_on_White_Bus_Attack_in_Baltimore_-_the_New_Gang_Sport.html
Am I wrong ? Because I always considered that a pretty enlightened perspective.
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| Dec 20, 2007 @ 1:27 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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 best to keep quiet or be at the receiving end of hate mail
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| Dec 20, 2007 @ 3:42 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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and that's too bad...
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| Dec 26, 2007 @ 6:28 AM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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yes it is .....
no one so blind as those who dont want to see
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 12:56 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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I've seen uncivil, crude activities of the kind engaged in on that Baltimore bus, first hand.
I was on my honeymoon with my blonde Danish wife in Florida, we inadvertently walked into the "wrong" McDonalds and were abused, attacked and driven out for being white. How "RUDE" is that??
I am indeed a Brit, but I don't know if I am commenting on "internal" US affairs !
Especially not when I have MYSELF experienced this kind of RACISM first hand !
They thought we were AMERICANS !
In the 90s a pregnant German tourist and her husband were gunned down on the highway after stopping for a signalling youth. It later transpired that the attack was racially motivated. So don't try to cover RACISM up just because it isn't WHITE racism.
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 1:11 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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Sorry that happened to you. But now you know what some go through every day of there lives. If you didn't like it happening to you once, imagine waking up everyday having to deal with it. I don't mean to belittle your experience, but I don't think you are looking at the big picture. psssst BTW I think that's why most brits tend to avoid this discussion. At least that's what wifey, who was a brit, used to tell me.
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 1:32 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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I did imagine how it was to deal with it, for a long time before it happened. I had been taught to think about racism ever since my youth, but as one-way traffic. My mother was a trade unionist and campaigned stubbornly against apartheid in South Africa for much of her career. Maybe that was considered a "rude" involvement. She lived to see an end to it, and to see the results of the truth and reconciliation committee.
What changed that day was the realisation - and the experience - that it probably often goes both ways in America. Probably also on a daily basis. When exposed to injustice, you have to be careful not to use the same methods. The two wrongs aren't just white.
Maybe that IS the big picture. 
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 3:57 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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I guess it depends on ones perspective. I grew up being discriminated against, so naturally I'm bias in favor of my own race. Perhaps that's indicative of the big picture. I notice though whenever people make this point it always seems to be they want to point out that whites are discriminated agains too, wonder why.
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 5:31 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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Because it's part of the picture maybe?
Well, I'm not biased in favour of my own race, I dislike any form of discrimination and "my" "race" has usually been the worst example of that, in particular Europeans. The most appalling genocide in history took place on the European continent on account of nationalist ideas and hatred. If I had been born on that side of the channel instead of the side the "Anglo-Saxons" came to, I would have been involved in it. So that, if someone from outside pointed out to me that there is racism in "my" country, I'd give them a fair hearing and fair consideration, just because it's true.
I'm also aware that there is racism in other ethnic identities too... In South Africa, for instance, the Afrikaner system of apartheid placed Chinese below whites, Indians below Chinese and the original inhabitants, the real Africans, at the bottom.
The Chinese and Indians fell into that strata quite nicely, as they were quite happy to be placed above the Africans (they believed they were above the Africans), even though the laws against inter-racial marriage applied to all the minorities.
In fact however, racism played little part in the identity of the real Africans. They didn't hate the other populations. That is probably why race is not an issue for the government coalition since Mandela. ;o)
I think, like in South Africa, we all need to just forget about what "race" we belong to... it's the human race... and pursue life, liberty and happiness to the best of our ability ;o) I can perfectly understand that is easier said than done in parts of the US, but if I am to form an opinion about how things work over there, I have to ask questions about the whole picture, all sides up at the same time, and not just one side. ;o)
That was the reason I explored iam's blog at the time - which I was merely probing - because I had experienced something similar without even having the faintest idea why.
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| Mar 12, 2008 @ 8:28 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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It feels odd when so many people say we should just get over racism, or words to that effect. I still have to deal with it on a daily basis. But, I like your post anyway. Way to put things in perspective. 
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| Mar 13, 2008 @ 7:12 AM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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Well, Nelson Mandela didn't allow racism to define him, he defined himself and his own life agenda - and was highly successful in doing so. He reached those he could reach. Maybe that is one way forward? 
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| Mar 13, 2008 @ 2:35 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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good point, and I think another point that is often lost on a discussion on racism is all the non-people of color of which whom no advancements towards equality would have been possible. I'm think particularly of those in the under-ground rail road who risk their lives to end slavery.
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 7:20 AM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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ColdinWisconsin
Posts: 9,987
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Just my opinion here.....but I have lived in numerous places around the us. And I have seen my share of racisim. Black, white, Irish, Jewish, Italian, Hispanic...The list goes on.
We ARE the melting pot of the world. And in this society where people pretty much HAD to hang with their own kind (for language issues, family ties, and the ties that bind small communities.) when they immigrated here, in some cases, it was the only ties they had.
I'm a short way from Milwaukee. You've got Whitefish Bay, the 9th wards, Brady Street, the South side....the list goes on. And to this day, they are still pretty much segregated into their nationalities. It's a wonderful mix. But you couldn't PAY we to drive through the South side. No way in hell.
I live in a basically German area, but we are surrounded by the dutch. They STILL roll up the streets, swepp them up and dance in wooden shoes. (I swear to God)
Racism will probably always be in issue in America. Sad, but true.
BUt, I have quite a few friends in the UK and none of them have any problem telling me how they feel about America. 
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 3:01 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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But you couldn't PAY we to drive through the South side. No way in hell.
That's too bad, CW; you'd be missing a lot of great people and venues; two summers ago, I had a side job delivering phone books, and I actually walked through those near South-side neighborhoods, lugging Yellow- and White Pages door to door...and while I saw a lot of decay in this centuries-old area; I met a lot of really great people, and saw a lot of really well-kept homes. It was kind of bittersweet: while the old Polish flavor of the neighborhoods where my grandparents and my mom grew up was certainly fading, the newer Hispanic and Asian influences are kind of exciting. ..it was kind of neat calling "hello" to the ice cream vendor walking the neighborhoods with his push-cart, while I climbed the (obnoxiously steep) steps of the old Polish Flats to drop off the phone books...and I always had a little, I don't know, surge of excitement and pride when I would see one of the old homes being completely redone-or a new home being built in-between two older homes that were both built in the 1880's.
And I remember, when I was a County Transit driver, having a mild argument with one south-side Hispanic teenager about the pronunciation of " Kosciuszko."
Good times...
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 3:23 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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ColdinWisconsin
Posts: 9,987
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Hey Steve! Good to see ya! I do understand what you are saying.
But I'm talking about The SOUTH SIDE. Not the near south side. As you know...you can go from a good neighbor hood to a bad hood in two blocks. I have BEEN in the south side with my nephews (actually looking for a cool restraunt to take them to) and had our own little run-in with the Latin Kings.
All you have to do is google Latin Kings and JSonline....
Our experiance wasn't good. One man, one very young man got us out unharmed. I would never suggest for a woman to travel there...ever again. 
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 3:55 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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you can go from a good neighbor hood to a bad hood in two blocks. Well, this is true; but it probably is true in any big city on the planet-although the easy availability of guns gives it an extra push in the US; especially here in the Cream City-I believe I've read that Badger Guns and Ammo (in W. Milwaukee) is responsible for selling more firearms that are involved in illegal activities than any other dealer in the nation.
I know about the Latin Kings-I also know about the Gangsta Disciples; remember, I drove a city bus for ten years, and I delivered pizza on the North Side for alnost four-and I know what you are saying. From my own experience, there isn't a neighborhood I wouldn't walk through in daylight; although I am 6'2" and look like an O-lineman...but at night, the one area I wouldn't go into on foot has to be around 8th-Burleigh on the North Side. Well, around 20th-Locust is just about as bad...
To all my European friends wondering why I'm using up so much space talking about a medium-sized American city, I apologize for that; but the subject is Milwaukee: next to Football, my Faith and my Family, there's nothing I'm more passionate about than my home town. The "City of Festivals" gets a bad rap-moreso from her own citizens, who have an immense civic inferiority complex from being so close to Chicago, than from anyone else; the biggest issue from the rest of the world is that they respond to the name Milwaukee with the ubiquitous "Where?" Too bad, really- I firmly believe that, despite her faults, I live in the greatest City in the World.
Oh, that I weren't the only one...
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 4:14 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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ColdinWisconsin
Posts: 9,987
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remember, I drove a city bus for ten years,
Yep, I forgot about that!
And I DO love Milwaukee! Take me down Brady to the Spice house. Butter Burgers at Solly's. Winkie's and Great Harvest in the Bay. The museum need to do a bit more, but the Art down by the lake front is AWESOME!
But I do think there are some neighborhoods that I woman shouldn't be walking around in day or night . If your going to be in some of those areas (far south side) you need to have a purpose. Do it, get it done and go home. It may be different for a large man, but, let's be honest.....you've never been a 5'1 woman.
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 4:26 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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The museum need to do a bit more Well one thing that did happen: MPM paid off their loans from the County that were from the outgoing director's mismanagement of resources...that was damn sad: MPM had to sell off the Tirimbina Rain Forest in Costa Rica, that they had owned for many years.
Now that that debacle has been solved, hopefully MPM can get back to doing what they do best: being one of the foremost Natural History museums in the world. Remember, it was Carl Akeley at MPM that invented the diorama!
Plus, both my grandfather (head of entymology; was acting assistant director for a while) and my dad (head of the carpentry shops) both retired from there.
but, let's be honest.....you've never been a 5'1 woman. How do you know? I haven't told you everything about my past, ya know...
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| Mar 17, 2008 @ 5:25 PM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america
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ColdinWisconsin
Posts: 9,987
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I still wish I had made it there for their martini night.
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| Mar 24, 2008 @ 7:18 AM |
Do brits have an opinion of racism in america |
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CPUfan
Posts: 7,983
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Nice posts Steve and CiW, it IS always interesting to hear about different cities. Glad you took the time to explain...
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