Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

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Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

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Aug 16, 2006 @ 2:34 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 I've maintained all along that there aren't but subtle and basically trivial differences between men and women. I mean, how could there be? We all have the genetic makeup of both a man and a woman. We are not from different "planets," as Dr. John Gray would like us to believe. IMO, his work only serves to further the "battle of the sexes."

And here are some studies that support this:

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2004/040217.MacGeorge.sexroles.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169786,00.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1462074.htm

http://msupress.msu.edu/bookTemplate.php?bookID=99

Aug 16, 2006 @ 5:00 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

guiltless

Posts: 57 While I would agree that the differences are subtle, but prospectives are worlds apart. Women are more free to express thier emotions, men more repressed. Males aren't bound the the wild Hormonal(SP?) ride that you wonderful ladies are.
in short we may be made in very simular fashions, but our outlooks and needs/want are entirely different.
You are right on target with respect to Dr.Gray.

Aug 16, 2006 @ 7:19 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 Thanks for your post.

Yes, we are free to express our emotions, but that's ingrained in us by society. Men HAVE the same emotions; they're just not "allowed" to express them and particularly in the same way women are "allowed to," so that may be one reason men are typically more aggressive. Showing emotion that shows "strength" like anger and so forth is okay for a man, but showing fear, tenderness, pain, depression, etc., is pretty much taboo.

We know that a man has the capacity to cry, as is evidenced by his tears at the birth of his child or at a funeral or upon hearing very disturbing news. But it's "okay" for a man to cry THEN, because is accepted by society.

Personally, I think we'd do much better if, as a society, we'd just allow people to be who they are and not have to match a stereotypical gender "role." I'm as logical and, in many ways, as strong as any man I've ever known, but I'm also very in tune with my emotions and am not afraid to express my emotional side. I can fix some things on a car, I can take out the trash, I can use a tiller (damn those suckers are BEASTS, aren't they?!!!) and, the way I see it, there's no reason a man cannot bake a cake or watch a soa -- well, no, he doesn't have to go to those lengths; soap operas are stupid. LOL.

Anyway, despite what Dr. Gray says, I personally believe we should be making strides to understand how we are similar and use that in order to effectively communicate instead of on the Mars/Venus theory. A lot of his theories are, frankly, insulting to a woman's intelligence and makes her look weak and frail and helpless.

:-)

(I still need someone to weedeat my poison ivy-laden yard, though. Sigh.)

Aug 16, 2006 @ 9:20 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

kinglouis2005

Posts: 856 I agree most men and most women are very similar but there are certain differences i can see in other males as well. I will give you an example, most men respond a certain way to certain stimula...say getting into a minor argument. sure we may get upset, even angry. BUT a man taking large doses of anabolic steroids is very likely to react MUCH more aggresively. While in general our outlooks may initially be the same, our physical AND hormonal makeup may be the same there will be a hUGE difference in the end result between myself and the "roid rage" fellow. So men and women having varying upbringings, varying social awareness and varying hormonal balances can and do have different reactions to the exact same situations...as explained in my example above.

Aug 16, 2006 @ 10:16 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 Anyone taking huge amounts of anabolic steroids or under the influence of any kind of drug is not going to be the same person as they would be if they were in a normal frame of mind.

And I'm not saying there aren't ANY differences; I'm saying, psychologically and genetically, albeit with subtle differences, we are, in the end "people." This whole Mars/Venus thing really does have people believing that men and women are from "different planets," metaphorically speaking. And that's ridiculous.

John Grey would have you believe that a woman is a whimpering child who can't handle life without her man and he says stuff like, "When men come home from work, he doesn't want to talk about his day; he just wants to unwind. So, it's best to just let him have his quiet time."

Then he'll say, "When a woman comes home from work and she's had a bad day, she want to share that with her partner. So, men, be there for her to listen and to sympathize."

So ...she's talking and not listening and he's listening and not talking...hmmm...

But it doesn't always work that way...sometimes the last thing I want to do is talk about certain things..depends on my mood at the time.

But he comes across as the woman's role is to basically chill out and leave him alone until he decides it's a good time to approach him -- then and ONLY then does she have permission to "come forward" and speak.

And that his role is to patronize her and pacify her as if she's a little child. It's almost as if his mind is still stuck in the '50s since he seems to still be putting the man in the role of patriarch instead of partner.

Aug 16, 2006 @ 10:30 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

kinglouis2005

Posts: 856 oh dont get me wrong..i of all ppl am loathe to put ANY group of ppl in a neat little box and say ok you are this therefore you must be this.....not true at all..we are individuals that have become who we are through years of experience, life, upbringing and finally genetics..the steroid guy was an example that I can relate to...i am a man with normal testosterone levels...a man on the juice has an abnormally high testosterone level therefore the difference in his behavior is purely hormonal since testosterone has not been found to be a depressant or stimulant or halluconogen ..it simply adds a particular hormone to your body...now on that same line of thinking i believe men have a significantly higher level of testosterone than most women do, therefore IMO it is reasonable to assume that men in general may be more aggressive or react somewhat more aggressively to certain situations as opposed to women..kinda like steroid guy versus average Joe.

Aug 16, 2006 @ 10:31 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 You? Normal testosterone levels?

Aug 16, 2006 @ 10:34 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

kinglouis2005

Posts: 856 LOli admit I do take DHEA which is a testosterone precursor but that will not in and of itslef cause me "abnormally" hihg test levels...meanwhile synthetic test can DOUBLE a mnas test levels for extended periods of time...Its an amazing drug actually and if it were legal well........................

Aug 16, 2006 @ 10:38 PM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 Hope it's been tested for safety...

I've heard horror stories about steroids..sure, they produce this massive, masculine body...

...and eventually this tiny little "tree," bearing tiny little nuts...

Then it gives you cancer..

And then you die.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:38 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

DoorWatcher

Posts: 6,259 Back to similarities/differences....

Women and men are mammals and human beings, so we share so many common characteristics. BUT...we are different...and thank Spirit for that. Equality is one thing....Oh yes, I was in NOW way back, but not to be a male, or the same as he, but to be counted equal. I embrace the differences of opinion, insight, personality, and perspective that men bring to the table (uh...did I just say?) Nothing else feels like a man.....and thank all that is holy for that distinction.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:38 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

robodad

Posts: 7,823 The term from Mars and from Venus means that the two genders react/act differently to situations. (when I use a gender, just remember that it is in general and does not mean every one of that gender)
Men tend to "got to their caves" (hold it in) and women tend to talk about it (the situation). Just because I'm free to express my emotions doesn't mean that I will.
After a break up, men will have sex with a female but will not necessarily trust that person. Women need time to heal(emotionally) before having sex with a man.
That's the way it is (in general).

Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:51 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

Pete73052

Posts: 19,370 There are definite physiological differences between men and women. Here is an article that suggests that while men are generally aroused by naked women, and gay men are generally aroused by naked men, all women may be aroused by naked women.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030613075252.htm

This doesn't sound like a "subtle" difference to me.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 7:06 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 There are definite physiological differences between men and women. Here is an article that suggests that while men are generally aroused by naked women, and gay men are generally aroused by naked men, all women may be aroused by naked women.

Well, that article is patently wrong. Either that, or I'm the only woman alive whjo isn't the least bit aroused by a naked woman.

(Also, I hope no one's getting the impression I'm saying there aren't ANY differences between men and women; I thought I made that point very clear).

Aug 17, 2006 @ 9:52 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

kinglouis2005

Posts: 856
Hope it's been tested for safety...

I've heard horror stories about steroids..sure, they produce this massive, masculine body...

...and eventually this tiny little "tree," bearing tiny little nuts...

Then it gives you cancer..

And then you die.
Im going to adress this and then go back to my theory..
from reports I have read steroids do in fact shrink the berries b/c a male on roids no longer is producing his own test..the body dedects the amount of test therefore natural production stops..hence the shrinking berries...as far as the tree is concerned there is no proof or evidence that the tree shrinks or enlarges at all. I dont believe the tree is affected. The berries eventually grow back after a bit when roid use is stopped thus triggering the body to begin creating its own natural levels of test again.
As for cancer i would agree that it is ironic how long term roid abusers end up dying of cancer or some other ailment but it is quite inconclusive since it seems these ppl are hardcore abusers. In other owrds they dont take moderated doses they take HUGE doses sometimes double or triple what is needed to see steady gains. The mindset is i get big using this much in x time then I can get bigger using xx amount in half of x time.
So when you look at this the negative affects of roids are similar to the effects of hamburger abusers, alcohol abusers, aspirin abusers, meaning that if you double or triple anything eventually your body will not like it and you will die.

back to mars and venus...I think that social, and biological differneces HAS made us react differently to similar situations..

steroids was just an example to show how a man with 2 x's the testosterone as another man would react differently to similar stimula. Now I would imagnine that men probably have 2 x's the testosterone of the average woman but that is just a guess...that hormone in and of itself is strong enough to create very different reactions to situations .

Aug 17, 2006 @ 10:10 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934
back to mars and venus...I think that social, and biological differneces HAS made us react differently to similar situations..

I believe they are more social than biological, actually. I do think hormone levels play a role, certainly, in the differences. I'm just saying I think we're more alike than we are different.

This Mars/Venus thing and other myths would have us believe that we are almost two entirely different species. And that John Gray has single-handedly unlocked the mystery and the secrets behind the Battle of the Sexes. LOL. I don't think so.

I think that men and women complement each other very well. It used to drive me nmad wondering why (some) men lie like they do. And yes, I know that some women do it, too, but by and large I think it's men who are known for being quick to lie (from what I've experiencd and from what I've read). And I'd wonder WHY!!! WHY? WHY??? It doesn't make any sense!

Well, when you ask (those) men what makes them lie, they always come back with a cutesy smart ass answer or, at best, an ambigious one.

"Oh, it's better than telling the truth. She doesn't want the truth."

Or

"Because I can."

Well, DUH.

Anyone CAN lie.

Anyway, one of the reasons I think men are apt to lie is because they just don't want to face the consequences of their actions. Case in point: men who cheat. They think that because they're a man they're not supposed to be faithful, that, for some strange reason, they think they HAVE to bed down multiple numbers of women (and hey, if he's single, then, whatever), but, if he's made a commitment, he should honor that commitment. But SOME men simply have NO HONOR, no sense of accountability.

So, I've decided that is the reason. It isn't some kind of hormonal or psychological difference. Men (and women) who lie are just "less than expemplary," shall we say, human beings.

And speaking from a woman's point of view and since I haven't had occasion to be lied to by a woman (in terms of a relationship) that's primarily why I mention men more...however, having said that, I do think society "exonerates" a man from lying (you know, the ol' "boys will be boys" b.s.) more often than they will a woman. With regard to what I've seen discussed and witnessed in my own personal life, it's almost as if it's expected (and even laughed at) if a man is deceiving or dishonest in a relationship, but that a woman is a "conniver" if she is.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 10:15 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 [The term from Mars and from Venus means that the two genders react/act differently to situations. (when I use a gender, just remember that it is in general and does not mean every one of that gender)
Men tend to "got to their caves" (hold it in) and women tend to talk about it (the situation). Just because I'm free to express my emotions doesn't mean that I will.
After a break up, men will have sex with a female but will not necessarily trust that person. Women need time to heal(emotionally) before having sex with a man.
That's the way it is (in general).[/quote]
I take offense to Gray's use of the phrase "go to their caves." I know what he means by it but it just seems "chauvenistic" to me.

I don't necessarily need to have time to heal (emotionally) before having sex with another man. In fact, having sex with another man could be just the thing I'd need to make me heal emotionally. Or, if not, hey, at least it feels good for the short-term.

Not that I'd go looking just for that purpose, but if the situation came up, I wouldn't decline, saying, "I have to wait, I'm still getting over 'so-and-so.'"

Nope, doesn't take me that long to "get over" someone who has hurt me. Used to, when I was younger. Now, pfffft...who cares? Win some lose some. Lots of fish in the sea and all of that. You know?

Aug 17, 2006 @ 10:51 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

Pete73052

Posts: 19,370
I believe they are more social than biological, actually. I do think hormone levels play a role, certainly, in the differences. I'm just saying I think we're more alike than we are different.

Well, we could also say we are more like chimps than we are different. It's the differences between us that is fundamental, not the similarities.

This Mars/Venus thing and other myths would have us believe that we are almost two entirely different species. And that John Gray has single-handedly unlocked the mystery and the secrets behind the Battle of the Sexes. LOL. I don't think so.

We're not entirely different species, of course, but we are entirely different.

I think that men and women complement each other very well. It used to drive me nmad wondering why (some) men lie like they do. And yes, I know that some women do it, too, but by and large I think it's men who are known for being quick to lie (from what I've experiencd and from what I've read). And I'd wonder WHY!!! WHY? WHY??? It doesn't make any sense!

Well, if you talk to men, it's women who do most of the lying. So no, it doesn't make any sense to make generalizations like this one. There are some men who lie, and some women who lie.

Well, when you ask (those) men what makes them lie, they always come back with a cutesy smart ass answer or, at best, an ambigious one.

More generalizations - I suppose based on your experiences. Some people are pretty demanding, and lying to them is easier than telling them the truth. If you've been lied to by men, it probably reflects more on you than it does on them. I'm not intending to offend you here, Jean, but just making a point.

"Oh, it's better than telling the truth. She doesn't want the truth."

See what I mean?

Anyone CAN lie.

Yes, anyone can.

Anyway, one of the reasons I think men are apt to lie is because they just don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

That would also explain why women lie too.

Case in point: men who cheat. They think that because they're a man they're not supposed to be faithful, that, for some strange reason, they think they HAVE to bed down multiple numbers of women (and hey, if he's single, then, whatever), but, if he's made a commitment, he should honor that commitment. But SOME men simply have NO HONOR, no sense of accountability.

Men who cheat aren't sleeping with each other, you know. They're cheating with women who are just as likely to be cheating on THEIR spouses. Some women cheat on faithful men, just like some men cheat on faithful women. These types of generalizations you're producing don't make any sense - but it very well could be that you've had some bad experiences that have left you bitter.

So, I've decided that is the reason. It isn't some kind of hormonal or psychological difference. Men (and women) who lie are just "less than expemplary," shall we say, human beings.

Yes, we shall say that.

And speaking from a woman's point of view and since I haven't had occasion to be lied to by a woman (in terms of a relationship) that's primarily why I mention men more...however, having said that, I do think society "exonerates" a man from lying (you know, the ol' "boys will be boys" b.s.) more often than they will a woman.

I don't agree with this. I think very few men would be surprised to hear that a woman has been lying, or cheating. This type of behavior is something society as a whole has come to expect of some of its members.

With regard to what I've seen discussed and witnessed in my own personal life, it's almost as if it's expected (and even laughed at) if a man is deceiving or dishonest in a relationship, but that a woman is a "conniver" if she is.

Well, let's just hope your own personal experience and outlook doesn't spread around the world. At least John Gray has acknowledged and tried to make sense of what our differences are, and proposed some recommendations that, many who have tried them will agree, work pretty well. But, they are presented to help people in relationships, so those who are bitter about the opposite sex may not have too much use for them.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 11:32 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 Well, we could also say we are more like chimps than we are different. It's the differences between us that is fundamental, not the similarities.

I disagree. I think the similarities are more fundamental than the differences. I think concentrating on the differences can (and has had) a negative effect on bridging the communication gap between the genders.

*******

We're not entirely different species, of course, but we are entirely different.

No, NOT entirely. I beg to differ.

******

Well, if you talk to men, it's women who do most of the lying. So no, it doesn't make any sense to make generalizations like this one. There are some men who lie, and some women who lie.

As per usual, you're misquoting me. I'm not making generalizations. I'm going by both personal experience and by what I've seen. And I stated ALREADY that both men AND women lie.

****

Well, when you ask (those) men what makes them lie, they always come back with a cutesy smart ass answer or, at best, an ambigious one.

More generalizations - I suppose based on your experiences.

No, not JUST based on my experiences, this is based on informal polls I've read and on studies I've read, as well as from talking to lots of other women who have experienced the same thing.

******

Some people are pretty demanding, and lying to them is easier than telling them the truth. If you've been lied to by men, it probably reflects more on you than it does on them. I'm not intending to offend you here, Jean, but just making a point.

Like hell you're not trying to offend me. And demanding? The only thing I'm "demanding" about while in a COMMITTED relationship is that the man honor his committment to me, that he remains faithful.

It "makes it easier?" Yeah, I suppose it does. A man who lies is a wimp. And, how dare you even SUGGEST that ANYONE is to blame for someone else's lying, whether they be male or female. See what I mean? No sense of accountability whatsoever.

*****

"Oh, it's better than telling the truth. She doesn't want the truth."

See what I mean?

B.S. There is a difference between telling the truth when it really matters and telling the truth with regard to a white lie, such as in response to the familiar, "Does this dress make me look fat?" question. He doesn't have to lie with regard to his OPINION of how the dress makes her look, but he could at least use a bit of tact and diplomacy when responding.

*****

Anyway, one of the reasons I think men are apt to lie is because they just don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

That would also explain why women lie too.

Sigh. DUHHH!!! So, this justfies it? I EXPLAINED that I'm speaking from a woman's perspective and that I haven't personally had experiences with women lying within a relationship, since I don't date women, and I also further clarified that women also lie, too..so was that comment even necessary?

*****

Men who cheat aren't sleeping with each other, you know. They're cheating with women who are just as likely to be cheating on THEIR spouses. Some women cheat on faithful men, just like some men cheat on faithful women. These types of generalizations you're producing don't make any sense - but it very well could be that you've had some bad experiences that have left you bitter.

Here we go again. NO S***, Sherlock!! I haven't said that women don't cheat!!! That isn't the point!! This isn't about let's justify one wrong by bringing up another. Even so, it IS men who are known to be more apt to lie when it comes to relationships. I don't know for a fact if this is true or not, and I don't know if it could be even accurately measured (cuz everyone would lie, anyway, yanno?) but it is true that the prevailing attitude is that it's "cute" for men to tell lies about cheating and so forth, like it's some kind of "brotherhood joke," or something.

*****

So, I've decided that is the reason. It isn't some kind of hormonal or psychological difference. Men (and women) who lie are just "less than expemplary," shall we say, human beings.

Yes, we shall say that.

Glad we agree on one point at least.

And speaking from a woman's point of view and since I haven't had occasion to be lied to by a woman (in terms of a relationship) that's primarily why I mention men more...however, having said that, I do think society "exonerates" a man from lying (you know, the ol' "boys will be boys" b.s.) more often than they will a woman.

I don't agree with this. I think very few men would be surprised to hear that a woman has been lying, or cheating. This type of behavior is something society as a whole has come to expect of some of its members.

I have talked to a lot of guys who say they've been lied to by women, so I don't doubt that it happens ...but you don't see women sitting around and "high-fiving" each other like you do with regard to a lot of men's attitudes about lying. You know what I mean?

(Scrambles brain for an example)...

Oh, I know! How many times have you seen women at a bar saying, when the phone rings, "Hey, if that's my husband, tell him I'm not here! (Followed by the ritual snorrrrkk, hock 'tooey, high-fives everyone, scratches her crotch and slugs back a few shots in comaraderic "celebration.)?

That's what I mean by being more "accepted." Everyone thinks it's soooo "cute" that he's playing this little game with her.

Granted, there are probably some women there who don't want th

Aug 17, 2006 @ 11:36 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

jeanc200358

Posts: 934 con't..

Granted, there are probably some women there who don't want their husbands knowing, either, but they don't typically call attention to it or get "public accolades" for it.

******

Well, let's just hope your own personal experience and outlook doesn't spread around the world.

Oh, puleeze. Like I'm the only woman who's ever been lied to by a man. GMAFB.

****

At least John Gray has acknowledged and tried to make sense of what our differences are, and proposed some recommendations that, many who have tried them will agree, work pretty well. But, they are presented to help people in relationships, so those who are bitter about the opposite sex may not have too much use for them.

Well, again there you go with your digs. I'm not bitter about the opposite sex. I have had some bitter experiences with CERTAIN members of the opposite sex, just as I'm sure you have. But, if I was bitter about them, I'd certainly not be looking to establish a relationship with one of them and, what's more, just FYI, I have (and have had) MANY more male friends than female friends. I get along with men (as platonic friends and as business associates) FAR more easily than I do with many women. Women don't typically want to discuss the things I'm interested in, for one thing. So, don't even go there. I ADORE men. But I ABHOR dishonest men, or men who play mind games or say anything just to try to get you in the sack.

Aug 17, 2006 @ 11:50 AM Men are from EARTH, Women are from EARTH

kinglouis2005

Posts: 856
but it is true that the prevailing attitude is that it's "cute" for men to tell lies about cheating and so forth, like it's some kind of "brotherhood joke," or something.

I have not experienced this but I have seen it on TV or movies..so I guess the stereotype is there...I simply cannot understand why someone would even do that...I am about being uprfront and establishing ground rules..Now there may be rules not everyone can stomach but once it gets laid out it should be followed amd the rules are negotiated by both parties.

In my experience I have been lied too much more than I have lied...

I will NOT say I havent lied, but my lies are more like "Yes sweetie that fress DOES look good on you."

When in fact I really didint like it on her but I aint about to tell her that after she spent an hour showering, dressing, putting on makeup and jewlery, shaving etc...

Anything less than "YOU LOOK STUNNING!" is not acceptable!

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