| May 14, 2007 @ 10:54 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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LanceVarden
Posts: 330
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Aright, here we go.
I am sort of a reverse of a jew. I believe in the New Testament and not the old.
Why?
Well for many reasons.
1st, the harshness of the OT. I don't have my bible disk with me (its at work) so I won't be quoting exact scriipture and verse (today, I can look it up tomorrow)
Anyhow, in the OT, when they, went into the city, God ordained that they should take none of the spoils of the battle. One guy took a necklace. According to "Gods" will he was executed. Wow that seems pretty harsh right. over a necklace!!!!!
OK, now here comes the kicker. They ALSO executed his wife and children, as per God's commands cause "God" said to.
It comes down to, "Who says God says so"
If I told you God ordained that a local shoplifter needed executed, what would you think? Then I tell you to kill his kids, you call me looney, and rightly so.
It reminds me of the accusation of a monarch who, when he was challenged not only killed the offender, but also the family. When asked as to why he explained (paraphrased) "When a farmer clear away a forest, he not only cuts down the trees, he pulls up the stumps and kills the roots so that the next year he does not have to do the entire job again" That was Vlad Teppes (extra credit if you know what famous fictional character was based off him) Vlad Teppes was one of the most notoriusly wicked rulers that ever lived. Heas monickered as "Vlad the Impaler: and he routinely had grooups of his subjects impaled on pointed stakes in his courtyard so he could watch them writhe in pain while he enjoyed an outdoor lunch.
The entire OT is chock full or cruel and harsh punishments and inequities. Many by great men of the OT. Abraham had babies with Rachel cause his wife was barren (at the time) and broke her heart. Jacob screwed Esau out of his inheritance. Lots offered his virgin daughters to the gang of Sadom & Gamoreah. After hte city got burned up, they got Lot drunk and slept with him. The list goes on and on, but you get the picture.
The God I know is a God of love, He is not a clod harsh God to be feared full of swords and anger, but sweet and comfortable God. Mom used to describe him as a Grandpa in a rocking chair that was always ready to hug you back into his soft white beard, no matter how bad you have been.
The other thing is.
You call a plumber when your pipes are leaking. You call a roofer when your house leaks.
I think Yeashua came because the religion was screwed up. We couldn't get ti right, so he came to set it straight. Not to wipe it away, but to fulfill it. To make it what it shoudl have been all along (my guess is he is due to come again soon, cause it has gotten screwed up again)
Every bit of Yeashua was love and gentleness. When you think of people you know, there really aren't that many who really really care about you. Wel Yeashua DID care. If you take his as the son of God, or just a misguided martyr, he went voluntarily to a torurous death on our behalf. And you know what Hammer. If you were the ONLY person it ever could have helped, he would have laid himself down on that wood planking the very same way.
[Edited on 5/14/2007 11:16 PM]
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| May 14, 2007 @ 11:14 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Jesus (Yeashua) is the son of God and is the same God in the OT.
What's new? Lots of Christians don't like the OT but still pick and chose what suits their agenda like the creation myth.
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| May 14, 2007 @ 11:18 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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LanceVarden
Posts: 330
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And you know what Hammer. If you were the ONLY person it ever could have helped, he would have laid himself down on that wood planking the very same way.
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| May 14, 2007 @ 11:51 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,063
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Anyhow, in the OT, when they, went into the city, God ordained that they should take none of the spoils of the battle. One guy took a necklace. According to "Gods" will he was executed. Wow that seems pretty harsh right. over a necklace!!!!!
This battle was in the city of "Ai". the story is in Joshua chapters 6 & 7.
I will just post minimum so you will see that it was not a necklace that was stolen, also when you read these two chapters, you will see that God commanded the tribe of Judah not to take any spoils of the enemies in Ai to themselves, for they were to be for the treasury of the tabernacle. These spoils were silver and gold.
Achan had coveted and stolen Babylonian garmets, silver and gold, he hid them in his tent in the earth.
I'll stop here so others can read the chapters and post what they want.
Also just to note, that previously, the siege of Jericho is connected to this incident of Ai.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 12:04 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Lance you're not making sense.
Just answer a simple question. Is the God in the OT the same God in the NT?
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| May 15, 2007 @ 12:59 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,280
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I will just post minimum so you will see that it was not a necklace that was stolen, also when you read these two chapters, you will see that God commanded the tribe of Judah not to take any spoils of the enemies in Ai to themselves, for they were to be for the treasury of the tabernacle. These spoils were silver and gold.
I just love your Old Testament knowledge. I have learned so much from you Angel.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 1:10 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,063
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 thank you Katt, and I also learn so very much from you and when Haban is on board too! 
I did forget to add something important....
OK, now here comes the kicker. They ALSO executed his wife and children, as per God's commands cause "God" said to.
Actually this did not happen to Achan's family. God had warned Israel not to accurse His Covenant (laws), if they did by stealing the enemies goods, God would send his wrath upon them for their iniquity.
After Achan's death by stoning (which was a warning to all of Israel), God had all his belongings burned. His family was present at the burning. But God's wrath did fall upon this tribe through war shortly there after...
One moral to this event as well as many others, is that when God say's something, he means it! And he always give fair warning in advance and gives specifics in detail. God will not put up with being disobeyed. He never breaks an oath!
If you look at my new thread "History Conquest of Canaan", you will read the invasion of "Ai" after Jericho.
[Edited on 5/15/2007 1:16 AM]
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| May 15, 2007 @ 3:37 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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stormbay
Posts: 695
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This battle was in the city of "Ai". the story is in Joshua chapters 6 & 7.
There is nothing archaeological, historical nor chronological to support this. You need to keep in mind the site of “Ai”, lacks any middle or late Bronze remains of any kind, and so didn't exist or existed as a deserted ruin, at the supposed time of the conquest. In light of this, considerations of causation is very significant. The early Israelites when settling there, would've seen the still impressive burnt out ruins of a large early Bronze city, and would've wondered what force could have destroyed such an imposing place.
The Jews explained its destruction through invented stories of a mighty, warlike ancestor. The name of the site they gave, is "Ai" which means "the ruin" So if it had been in existence at the time, it wouldn't have been named this. Ai was the name given to the site after its destruction, when its original name had been long forgotten, probably at the same time the story told in Joshua was conceived and made up.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 3:52 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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stormbay
Posts: 695
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Also just to note, that previously, the siege of Jericho is connected to this incident of Ai.
Jericho had a long and complex history before ever it entered the pages of the Bible. It's been called, the oldest city in the world. At a very early period it was the location of a settlement with a degree of social planning and civil engineering without parallel for its time. The final Middle Bronze stage at Jericho ended in a violent event. One section of the walls were heavily tilted, indicating earthquake activity as the cause of the destruction (ibid., p. 736). After this event, the site was abandoned, and rain-washed debris gradually covered the ruins. Later, Jericho was resettled on a small scale during the Late Bronze Age. Erosion has removed most of the evidence from this stratum; the scanty surviving remains include two buildings and a house foundation where a mud-brick oven and ceramic jug were found in situ (ibid., p. 736). Although the LB was the period when an Israelite conquest would have happened, there is no trace of any fortifications during this period (Kenyon 1993, p. 680). Although the book of Joshua depicts Jericho as a mighty walled city when the Israelites encountered it, during this period it was in fact a small, unfortified village. There were no walls to come tumbling down.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 8:04 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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LanceVarden
Posts: 330
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Actually this did not happen to Achan's family. God had warned Israel not to accurse His Covenant (laws), if they did by stealing the enemies goods, God would send his wrath upon them for their iniquity. I may have my stories confused.
I understood that he stole the necklace and hid it under the floor of his tent and that he and his family were executed. I will look it up.
Just answer a simple question. Is the God in the OT the same God in the NT? Hammer. I answered that. If you want my opinion, my opinion is no they are not the same.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 11:18 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Hammer. I answered that. If you want my opinion, my opinion is no they are not the same. How do you come to that conclusion? Is that alluded to in the NT somewhere or is there another source?
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| May 15, 2007 @ 11:19 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,280
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He is the same God. He was here before, He never changes.
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| May 15, 2007 @ 2:40 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,584
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Katt,
He is the same God. He was here before, He never changes.
Yes Katt. But the men that wrote the scriptures did change and they left their own conceptions of God recorded in the scriptures.
Peace
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| May 15, 2007 @ 7:55 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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LanceVarden
Posts: 330
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How do you come to that conclusion? Is that alluded to in the NT somewhere or is there another source? I came to that way of think because of the sharp contrast between thye way God is presented in the OT & in the NT
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| May 15, 2007 @ 10:16 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,280
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Sail, I really can't say much about the Old Testament. I really only know the Bible stories we all heard as children. I have dwelved into the book of Genesis, and a few others.
I know,,,I need to read them huh?
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| May 27, 2007 @ 9:15 PM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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LanceVarden
Posts: 330
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Yes Katt. But the men that wrote the scriptures did change and they left their own conceptions of God recorded in the scriptures.
That is exactly right....but it doesn't disprove anything.
Six different witnesses could describe a bank robbery, and there would be variances in interpretation and minor detail in all of them. You could pick apart the stories of each and find descrepancies. You could probably even prove that not everything they all said was completely accurate
but.......
In the end.....
They were all there, they all were giving truthful witness to something real, and all the barracks-room-lawyer tactics in the world can't make them out to be liars.
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| Jun 20 @ 3:53 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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GodsProperty
Posts: 1
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God is not a harsh God, nor does he hold any ill will when someone does something that's not quite right. The problems we are having today has alot do with how we treat others. Loving our neighbors used to be something that came naturally, but today it's a thing of the past.
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| Jun 20 @ 9:58 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,876
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The story of Joseph in Genesis is an early Biblical prototype for the Jesus character in the NT fable.
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| Jun 20 @ 10:05 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 833
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The story of Joseph in Genesis is an early Biblical prototype for the Jesus character in the NT fable. ????
Are you sure you nmeab Joseph? Are you thinking of Adam?
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| Jun 20 @ 10:11 AM |
Yeashua and the Old Testament |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,876
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Compare the two stories and the similarities in detail.
joseph/jesus
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