| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:11 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,482
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Mr. O
I do confess 
that I did not read everything you wrote
which is why I asked my question
but....but...but....I don't think I'm the only one 
I do think you have something to say
but my attention span kinda conks out if what is said is tooooooooo long or complicated
I dunno.....I kinda like the 'keep it simple' thing that those 12 steppers are always saying....and....
I kinda like you too....but can't keep up
I need the 'readers digest' version 
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:14 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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undone - while you may have participated your rants here make it apparent that you never understood how the groups are structured and how they operate - trust me - you are completely 100% confused - I am trying to help you avoid any embarrassment. But it seems that your obsession to put down recovery has blinded you - so proceed O
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:14 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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some one made a suggestion that we define religion as opposed to spirituality
i posted someting earlier that I think reflexs my opion as well
By Dick B.
A.A. History, Alcoholics Anonymous History, A.A. History
Early in its founding years, A.A.’s co-founder Bill Wilson put the torch to the idea that A.A. sprang from just one source. He said frankly that nobody invented A.A. He said all its ideas were borrowed. And Dr. Bob broadened the source picture by pointing out that all the basic ideas came from the Pioneers’ study of the Bible.
Unfortunately, neither co-founder put in writing in one place all the well-springs that produced the streams in A.A. Consequently commentators, both favorable to and critical of A.A. have had a field day with discussions of our roots. Most of them have a number of erroneous concepts so embedded in their historical approaches that they just never tell it like it is or like it was. Those who don’t like the Bible say that we left it behind in Akron. Those who don’t like the Oxford Group say that it taught us more about what not to do than what to do. And those who don’t like either the Bible or the Oxford Group have tried to quiet the waters by diverting the stream. They say A.A. is “spiritual, but not religious” even though any well-informed historian, scholar, clergyman, and semanticist would probably ask: “And what’s the difference?”
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:15 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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smartrecovery? Do you have to have a IQ thats higher than normal?
Now that is funny - 
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:18 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,482
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There 'is' a difference between spiritual and religion
Ever heard anyone ask....
"Sooo....what 'Spiritual' do you belong to
RELIGION is a term that can be 'generalized'....or....
be referring to a..... 'specific'...... group and their 'specific' SPIRITUAL beliefs 
In A.A. your higher power can range from a DOORKNOB to JEHOVAH.
That doesn't sound like a specific religion to me
[Edited on 6/5/2007 10:24 PM]
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:24 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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onoudn
Posts: 6,354
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SMART Recovery® is an acronym that stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training.
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:29 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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lolitta957
Posts: 52
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Self management? hmmmmm so you sponsor yourself?
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:30 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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hey undone - why dont you tell us more about this SmartRecovery - how long have they been operating - how many members - were do they meet - who founded it - do you pay to go? THings like that????
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:32 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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lollita - makes sense to me  - same person that runs their life into the ground with drugs then suddenly learns how to save themselves - I cant wait to learn more!
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:33 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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lolitta957
Posts: 52
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:37 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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Loreli
Posts: 25,825
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The A.A. literature clearly states that
The only requirement for A.A. membership is........
A '''''''''''sincere'''''''''DESIRE TO STOP DRINKING
 Carpe
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:38 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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Angel54214
Posts: 19,008
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Here is the website, ask the experts!
http://www.smartrecovery.org/intro/
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:39 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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beachnutRU
Posts: 3,228
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Smart recovery takes off on thoughts that are related to a book titled "Beyond the 12 steps".......its another giant leap into getting what they believe the 12 steps lack.
Father Martin said once, "we become as open minded as only the dying can be".
I didn't question a lot in my early recovery. I was dying. If I was told "hit your knees 3 times a day" I was going to because I was scared and sobriety was a realllllll blessing.
Methinks we question to much sometimes. If it isn't someones cup of tea.......so be it do it your way for a bit and see how it works out.
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:40 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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beachnutRU
Posts: 3,228
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NOPE NOPE on the sincereeeeeeeeee part they changed that to a desire.....NOT EVEN a sincere desire.......
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:43 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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loreli - AA or NA groups have different policies on court ordered people - and you do not have to be a member to attend -
"You are a member when YOU say you are." This is one of the things that smart people do not understand about 12 step groups - they do not take piss tests or make you sign a pledge or contract - the "honest desire" to stop drinking is the only requirement for membership - we earn that membership one day at a time - for at any moment we know that the desire can leave us. This is what makes this so very important - because each day we have to make the decision to be a member!
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:44 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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Loreli
Posts: 25,825
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Well! See how it's changed!
(nice to see ya bn) 
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:44 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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beechnut - NA changed it to "desire" - AA still says - "Honest desire"
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 10:49 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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lolitta957
Posts: 52
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when you are laying in the gutter.....or the bushes....or your head is in the toilet..or you have the shakes so bad you cant even keep peas on your fork...or your family has kicked you out...you job is gone...and you just killed someone while driving drunk....I wouldnt think anyone would care who they had to pray to...or turn over their will to...or surrender to......if they wanted to stop drinking.
I would of done pretty much anything anyone asked me to do (within reason) so I could be on my way to recovery.....
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 11:08 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not
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iam7545
Posts: 4,151
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looks like undone went AWOL -
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| Jun 5, 2007 @ 11:17 PM |
Lets Have a Mock trail to determine if the 12-step program is religious or not |
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JayBird747
Posts: 728
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Undies, are you tryin ta make a case against the 12-step er trying ta rewrite war & peace?
Can anyone honestly say they read through alla that garbage?
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