| Jul 23, 2007 @ 9:15 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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Yes, there are, and they are reading this thread. I know at least one is. I have a few questions.
Now that the Catholic Church has accepted evolution, how does this affect the church's views of creation?
How do the individual Catholics feel about the church money being paid in the settlement? Does it anger them, or are they simply glad to get it over with and move on?
Do Catholics believe the pope is infallible?
Would the church accept a Catholic marrying an atheist?
If you have to die to become a Saint, isn't that the same as martyrdom?
I have more, but I'll start with these.
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 1:33 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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vinny_53
Posts: 457
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my opinion only...kjac..you seem to think that "the church" has the final say..
if you were asking people that were members of the catholic church what their opnions are of some of these topics .....that is ok..but it seems to me that you are asking people to speak for the church..which is not as easy...and is not something I would ever do...
How do the individual Catholics feel about the church money being paid in the settlement? Does it anger them, or are they simply glad to get it over with and move on?
the only thing I have a problem with is this...
...URL...Civil Lawsuits for Sexual Abuse In California, the filing of a civil claim of sexual abuse must be made within 8 years of the age of majority (meaning before your 26th birthday). However, California is one of 28 states that have adopted an extension of the statute of limitations based on the "discovery" of child sexual abuse or its effects. While nearly every state has a basic suspension of the statute of limitations while someone is a minor, many states have recently adopted these new "discovery" extensions specifically designed for cases of sexual child abuse. The discovery rule allows for civil lawsuits to go forward when they are "within three years of the date the plaintiff discovers or reasonably should have discovered that psychological injury or illness occurring after the age of majority was caused by the sexual abuse.” This rule was designed to counter the problem of prosecuting molesters who's victims had repressed the memories for decades, long after the statute of limitations expired. Now, upon "discovery" of the memories of abuse (often through therapy), a person has 3 years to file a claim.
in my way of thinking...how can someone 20 years later say that it never occurred to them that the abuse was harmful until they  finally went to a therapist who told them this was why they are all messed up...
and more importantly..is this a loophole that was exploited for financial gain? Remember that it was a settlement that never went to trial..as the powers that be decided that it would be in the churches best interest to settle..
..there was no guilt or innocence established no charges filed..only money exchanged hands..
Do Catholics believe the pope is infallible? he is still only a man... is Bush infallible?
If you have to die to become a Saint, isn't that the same as martyrdom? No..it just depends on how one dies.. a saint can be a martyr..but a martyr does not a saint make...
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 5:09 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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Are you saying the abuse never happened vinny?
he is still only a man... is Bush infallible?
Infallible, no. Incompetent... that's another story best left to the political threads. 
As far as the church having the final say, they obviously think they do, hence the declaration of evolution. But thanks for clearing up the difference vinny. I am assuming you are catholic from your response, correct me if I am wrong.
Does anyone know the church's exact views on creation?
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 6:14 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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Now that the Catholic Church has accepted evolution, how does this affect the church's views of creation?
Huh? Actually, the Catholic Church never condemned or distanced itself from evolution. Until 1950, the Church was silent on the issue. Pope Pius XII in his encyclical Humani Generis wrote "The Church does not forbid that...research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter."
Pope John Paul II embraced evolution and wrote six encyclicals (position statements) in favor of evolution as the explanation for man's corporal body. The official Catholic position is the soul comes from God and the body evolved.
Do Catholics believe the pope is infallible? This doctrine was adopted by Vatican I and only pertains to certain matters of faith and to nothing else. This doctrine has only been envoked twice in the nearly 150 years since it was adopted, both issues having to do with the divinity of the Blessed Mother. It has been used for nothing else.
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 6:20 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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Does the church still disallow divorce?
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 7:13 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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Divorce was never disallowed, remarriage was.
Basically, for Catholics and Orthodox, there are 7 sacraments: baptism, communion, confirmation, confession, marriage, ordination and extreme unction (the blessing of the sick). Protestants have 2 sacraments (usually): baptism and communion. Some Protestants, like Lutherans and Episcopals, list the others as sacramentals.
Therefore, in theory anyway, marriage is just as binding a sacrament as being ordained a priest.
Should an individual divorce, they are allowed the other sacraments. They can go to communion, confession, etc. Should they wish to remarry, they must either have the first marriage annulled or otherwise adjudicated or be unable to partake in the other sacraments. This does not mean you are excommunicated and it does not absolve you of your obligation to attend mass.
Lots of people think that annulments are only valid if the two people did not have sex or are impossible if there are children in the marriage. Like civil annulments, church annulments can be made under a variety of circumstances, but in the end they are given when the rigors of entering into a sacrament are not met, even if the two people who are married believe at the time they married in good faith. The following are some of the grounds for annulments: insufficient age (minimum 16 years for men and 14 years for women); perpetual impotence of either party dating from before the marriage; bond of prior marriage (if it was not dissolved and the dissolution signed off by the Church); Sacred Orders (priests cannot validly marry); Solemn Vows (nuns and brothers who have taken solemn vows cannot marry); abduction; crime; consanguity; affinity (a widow or widower may not marry a parent or grandparent or direct descendant of a deceased spouse); public decency (resembling affinity an invalid marriage or notorious concubinage through the first cousins); or other legal relationship (for example a relationship by adoption, which would invalidate the marriage by civil law).
There are such things as church divorces but they are very rare. Petrine divorce, sometimes called the Petrine Privilege is only granted by Rome for interfaith couples, when one party is not Christian and who then refuses to allow his Catholic spouse to practice her/his religion. A Pauline divorce or Pauline Privilege is the dissolution by the church of a civil or religious marriage between two non-Christians, where one party then becomes a Catholic and then the two divorce. These last two examples are not annulments.
In the Orthodox churches, they grant church divorces; however following a civil divorce, no one can partake of any sacrament until the church divorce is granted.
Anglicans do not allow in church second marriages. Witness the procedure of Prince Charles. He did not marry Camilla in church; rather their civil union was blessed.
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 8:06 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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morningstar1121
Posts: 109
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I was baptized Catholic at six weeks of age, as most Catholic babies are. My mother had been raised Catholic, also. My father was a Protestant who converted to the Catholic faith when he married my mother. I left the Catholic church later in life, partly because of the annulment issue. My first husband was Catholic, and we were married in the church. When he divorced me, I did not get an annulment. I remarried another Catholic in a civil service, since the church would not allow us to get married unless I was granted an annulment for the first marriage. (I didn't have the $800 they were asking for. If I had married a non-Catholic the first time and had not been married in the church, the annulment would have been only $500.) The church I attended refused to baptize my children born from the second marriage. They were eventually baptized later after a special appeal was made to the Bishop of the Diocese by a priest from a different Catholic church. Although it has been about 14 years since I left the Catholic faith, most of its teachings are still heavily ingrained in my memory. There are some that I no longer agree with.
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| Jul 23, 2007 @ 8:15 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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Friends of mine who married divorced Catholics have very different experiences with the annulment process depending upon the diocese and the initial priest they go to see. Some are more sophisticated than others. In the mid-90's there was an entire overhaul of the annulment process; however, implementing it has been better in some areas than in others, and has little to do with how liberal or conservative the diocese is. Arlington, VA, which is one of the most conservative diocese in the country, has a very streamlined process, probably due to the fact that the bishop who developed the new process was the head of the diocese.
I was astounded at the legal hassles my friend, who is Greek Orthodox, went through to get her daughter remarried in church. And I thought Catholics had rules. Yikes.
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| Jul 24, 2007 @ 9:23 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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Are there any set guidelines for Catholics marrying outside their own faith?
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| Jul 24, 2007 @ 9:30 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 14,715
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The only one I'm aware of is that the non-Catholic must agree to raise any children born of the union as Catholics. My mom was a Catholic, dad was a Lutheran. He was also an amazing man - since mom wasn't much for church-going, and he'd promised, she slept in on Sundays and he took bro and me to church. It wasn't until after I'd broken away from Catholicism that he admitted his total contempt for the church itself, but he'd never break his word.
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| Jul 24, 2007 @ 9:59 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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I didn't know that heaven. As you can see with the questions, there's a lot of things I don't know about Catholics and the church. I hope the catholics here don't think I'm badgering them. This is an important topic for me obviously. I need to learn a lot more about this religion if my children are going to be introduced to it.
Are there any positions or procedures on adoptions? Anything the church requires or asks?
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| Jul 24, 2007 @ 8:03 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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I don't feel badgered in the least.
With regard to your question about marriage outside the faith...I find that people's perspectives on this issue are very much colored by the priest who councils them as well as their experiences at pre-cana (pre-marriage) counseling.
My old roommie and her husband, who is Presbyterian, didn't want a long engagement. Most diocese require six months. The date they had chosen was 5 months away. In the end, they were married at a Jesuit-run church in DC. They met with the priest about six times before the wedding. The priest asked them some hard questions, listened and when needed gave some really good advice. He told my old roommie it wouldn't kill her to put on a dress and go to the Presbyterian Church with her husband and if her mother had a problem with that simply not to tell her.
Pre-cana was another story. Not so much because it made them feel the odd man out because they were an interfaith couple, it did, but because everything was geared to a pair of 22 year olds and they were pushing 40. Conversely, I had other friends who married around the same time, who had a wonderful, thoughtful pre-cana in rural Western Pennsylvania.
I guess in either case, it pays to know to whom you are speaking. Do a little research. Read the local paper, see which priest seems to offciate or co-officiate at interfaith weddings. Go to one of those weddings and sit in a back corner of the church. Is the priest inclusive of the other family? The co-officiating clergy?
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| Jul 26, 2007 @ 11:28 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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BaileyBlue
Posts: 602
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I went to Catholic grade school, high school and college... 
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| Jul 26, 2007 @ 11:39 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 20,812
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If you have to die to become a Saint, isn't that the same as martyrdom?
How does the Church choose saints?
Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim. Though this was a more democratic way to recognize saints, some saints' stories were distorted by legend and some never existed. Gradually, the bishops and finally the Vatican took over authority for approving saints.
In 1983, Pope John Paul II made sweeping changes in the canonization procedure. The process begins after the death of a Catholic whom people regard as holy. Often, the process starts many years after death in order give perspective on the candidate. The local bishop investigates the candidate's life and writings for heroic virtue (or martyrdom) and orthodoxy of doctrine. Then a panel of theologians at the Vatican evaluates the candidate. After approval by the panel and cardinals of the Congregation for the Causes of Saints, the pope proclaims the candidate "venerable."
The next step, beatification, requires evidence of one miracle (except in the case of martyrs). Since miracles are considered proof that the person is in heaven and can intercede for us, the miracle must take place after the candidate's death and as a result of a specific petition to the candidate. When the pope proclaims the candidate beatified or "blessed," the person can be venerated by a particular region or group of people with whom the person holds special importance.
Only after one more miracle will the pope canonize the saint (this includes martyrs as well). The title of saint tells us that the person lived a holy life, is in heaven, and is to be honored by the universal Church. Canonization does not "make" a person a saint; it recognizes what God has already done.
Though canonization is infallible and irrevocable, it takes a long time and a lot of effort. So while every person who is canonized is a saint, not every holy person has been canonized. You have probably known many "saints" in your life, and you are called by God to be one yourself.
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| Jul 27, 2007 @ 7:18 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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eastham
Posts: 5,963
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While correct, Katt, your piece left out one of the most interesting part of the whole process -- the advocatus diaboli, or Devil's Advocate.
Although Wiki indicates, the position of the Devil's Advocate no longer exists (it might simply be called by another name), the Devil's Advocate, as opposed to God's Advocate, is a canonical lawyer whose job to take a skeptical view of the nominee for sainthood, poke holes in the narrative, etc.
A couple of years ago, Christopher Hitchens, to his great surprise, was invited to the Vatican to participate in beautification process of Mother Theresa. If you remember, Hitchens had written some very negative pieces about Mother Theresa. He was peppered by questions by both advocates and said he found the process quite fascinating and was actually stunned that the Devil's Advocate worked as hard as he did to discredit Mother Theresa.
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| Jul 28, 2007 @ 9:50 AM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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kjac
Posts: 4,561
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This brings up another question. Do Catholics pray to saints?
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| Jul 28, 2007 @ 12:07 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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vinny_53
Posts: 457
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Do Catholics pray to saints?
yes...and so??
pray defined..
Pray \Pray\, v. t.
1. To address earnest request to; to supplicate; to entreat; to implore; to beseech.
And as this earl was preyed, so did he. --Chaucer.
We pray you . . . by ye reconciled to God. --2 Cor. v. 20.
2. To ask earnestly for; to seek to obtain by supplication; to entreat for.
I know not how to pray your patience. --Shak.
worship defined..
Worship \Wor"ship\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Worshipedor Worshipped; p. pr. & vb. n. Worshiping or Worshipping.]
1. To respect; to honor; to treat with civil reverence. [Obsoles.]
--Chaucer.
Our grave . . . shall have a tongueless mouth, Not worshiped with a waxen epitaph. --Shak.
This holy image that is man God worshipeth. --Foxe.
2. To pay divine honors to; to reverence with supreme respect and veneration; to perform religious exercises in honor of; to adore; to venerate.
But God is to be worshiped. --Shak.
When all our fathers worshiped stocks and stones. --Milton.
3. To honor with extravagant love and extreme submission, as a lover; to adore; to idolize.
With bended knees I daily worship her. --Carew.
Syn: To adore; revere; reverence; bow to; honor.
for context...
http://www.newacts.org/litv/exo.htmExodus 20 1 ¶ And God spoke all these words, saying, 2 I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 3 You shall not have any other gods before Me. 4 You shall not make a graven image for yourself, or any likeness in the heavens above, or in the earth beneath, or in the waters under the earth; 5 you shall not bow to them, and you shall not serve them; for I am Jehovah your God, a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third and on the fourth generation, to those that hate Me;
point of reference,,,
http://www.bibletexts.com/terms/10commandments-texts.htmKJV - 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. NRSV - 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, 6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments. TEV - 4 "Do not make for yourselves images of anything in heaven or on earth or in the water under the earth. Do not bow down to any idol or worship it, because I am the LORD your God and I tolerate no rivals. I bring punishment on those who hate me and on their descendants down to the third and fourth generation. But I show my love to thousands of generations of those who love me and obey my laws.
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| Jul 28, 2007 @ 12:53 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,132
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Though canonization is infallible and irrevocable, it takes a long time and a lot of effort. So while every person who is canonized is a saint, not every holy person has been canonized. You have probably known many "saints" in your life, and you are called by God to be one yourself.
I thought that the church no longer considers Saint Christopher a saint?
Can anyone comment here?
Peace
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| Jul 28, 2007 @ 1:26 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 14,715
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The veneration of this improbable figure was sharply criticized by Erasmus in his Praise of Folly. Christopher's feast day was downgraded by the Vatican to a purely local commemoration in 1969 based on a lack of specific historical evidence regarding the details of his life. Contrary to popular belief, he was not "de-canonized" or declared not to be a saint. He is still considered to be a saint in the Catholic Church.
Per Wiki - if you read details of his description you'll understand it,..he was described as a giant with the head of a dog.
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| Jul 28, 2007 @ 1:32 PM |
Are there any Catholics in the house? |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,132
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Heaven,
Per Wiki - if you read details of his description you'll understand it,..he was described as a giant with the head of a dog.
Thanks for the info.
So catholics still have a saint with the head of a dog. Sounds more like an egyrtian god than a saint.
Peace
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