| Nov 3, 2007 @ 9:52 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
kiwilove007
Posts: 23
|
I am going to take a simple hard view - relying upon reason and logic all the time.
That religion have created a monster - the religious insitution - and it is a beast designed to live on and on... and on... etc.
That religion does not teach us true spiritual beliefs and teachings etc.
These are very rare, in most religions.
eg.
God does not exist - never did, in the sense of what people view God as today.
That people today use their imagination, to create a God in their own image, of
that which they think God to be. And that does not exist, and cannot.
To the question - who is the creator then? Who created everything around us?
That a entity is not involved - it is a process, and not an entity that created life, etc.
Call it the life force in every living thing and non living thing too.
Religions work like this ---
They create myths - and instil these myths into the public consciousness -
and the church/clerics say - Oh, we know what God wants, etc --- speaking
for God all the time, guaranteeing their place in society, with a permanent job too.
They use the Bible as proving their point. That the Bible is the Word of God, and that it is true. If it is in the bible then it must be true. Using this circular logic as their proof and evidence. Of course the history of the bible reveals this to not be so.
And applying reason and logic, indicates that world history do not provide evidence or proof for what the Bible claims. At the least - there appears to be many flood legends in different parts of the world - and you can say - there is a grain of truth here and there regarding some events.
I know this is a cynical view - but you have to be, and to look at what evidence and proof is available - or else you can be easily misled.
There are many cases of people being misled by religious leaders - take the case of Waco, Jonestown, Children of God, etc etc etc.
I do acknowledge what good religion has done. eg. In helping the poor and those of the needy. In providing good morals and ethics - like in the Golden Rule - being good to others, who will treat you the same.
That will do for starters. I have written extensively about this subject elsewhere, and am tired to write this all out again from scratch.
I can of course paste and copy - but have not done so yet...
Regards
Harvey
|
|
  |
|
| Nov 4, 2007 @ 7:30 AM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
12knots
Posts: 6,400
|
Agreed
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 12:32 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
hammertime
Posts: 14,071
|
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 1:05 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
Meadowlark8
Posts: 686
|
Count me in on hopping on the above bandwagon as "Agreed"
regarding world religions.
Here's the three major flaws or sins as I see it.
World religions all hide:
1. Prejudice against other cultures and races through lack of knowledge
of the "Outside" culture that remains "Different".
And we all know lack of knowledge causes... "Fear".
Fear causes violence leading to war.
2. Gender discrimination (this is rampant). How can the world exist
in perfect balance when the rights of all humans are ignored?
3. All this deep based bias and fear generates religious folk with the illusion
they are given the authority for "Holy Wars". Resulting in the harsh
bloodshed of the Crusades and Jihads (spelling?).
Now that I've have my moment on the religious soapbox, I'll get off to
go play John Lennon's "Imagine"....at least somebody understands me
(and us in this thread...)... :-P
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 2:17 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
CHARLIgurl1
Posts: 700
|
Prejudice, sex discrimination, even wars are not just because of religeon.
There are many who have these tendancies who dont believe in any religeon at all!!.
Wars and conflicts are also fought over territory, greed and lust for power. American civil war for instance, fought over slavery and not religeon.
French revolution, against the monarchy who stayed rich while the peasants starved and paid huge taxes.
The war now as we speak isnt about religeon, even tho Bin Laden would say so, its about a fight against terrorism.
Religeon isnt responsible for everything.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 2:36 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
CHARLI,
The war now as we speak isnt about religeon, even tho Bin Laden would say so, its about a fight against terrorism. Yes! Religious terrorism!
Sure there are wars that were not directly triggered by religion. But the fact remains that religion and its god has been the cause of many wars going back thousands of years.
The majority of the worlds population is religious. If this is the case, then religious people have to condone war for it to happen. Why would religious people condone war of any type? That's easy, their holy writings are filled with wars condoned by their god.
Peace
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 4:32 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
steveemac
Posts: 2,335
|
World religions all hide:
1. Prejudice against other cultures and races through lack of knowledge
of the "Outside" culture that remains "Different".
And we all know lack of knowledge causes... "Fear".
Fear causes violence leading to war.
2. Gender discrimination (this is rampant). How can the world exist
in perfect balance when the rights of all humans are ignored?
3. All this deep based bias and fear generates religious folk with the illusion
they are given the authority for "Holy Wars". Resulting in the harsh
bloodshed of the Crusades and Jihads (spelling?).
Excuse me, but could you please show me where, in the Teachings of the Baha'i Faith, any of this is true? I'd really like to know how I could have misinterpreted the Writings in such an obvious way.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 6:36 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
bevrice
Posts: 11,141
|
All this is like saying there is no undercurrent in a lake or river because I can't see it, then you swim out in it and drown.
Faith works. Christianity was never meant to bring wars, man made the wars, churches made the wars.
Jesus was the first promoter of equality between males and females. He spoke to women in public, unheard of in those days, Jewish men ignored women in public. Jesus had women followers, took up for women.
The wisdom of man is but foolishness to God. God uses the foolish to confound the wise.
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 6:41 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
12knots
Posts: 6,400
|
Jesus was the first promoter of equality between males and females. He spoke to women in public, unheard of in those days, Jewish men ignored women in public. Jesus had women followers, took up for women.
This isnt true.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 7:07 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
bevrice
Posts: 11,141
|
This is true, knots. Remember the woman at the well. She was the first person Jesus sent out to tell others of Him.
Jewish men did NOT speak to women outside of their homes, it was below them.
What about the woman they were going to stone for adultry?
What about Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus, whom the Bible says, were His good friends?
There are more instances, but that is a good start.
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 7:55 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
Meadowlark8
Posts: 686
|
Hi Stevemac,
I'm not an expert on the Baha'i Faith and perhaps it is
immune to the flawed interpretation of
basic universal laws so many religions generate...
But you might have to do some convincing on my end.
Anything generated within the human mind and dimension
is flawed (my opinion of course). Only the God head is
all perfect in it's perception.
I just think, one does not need an intercedent (religious figure)
to connect to God energy...we are all part of God,
and all made in it's likeness by being co-creators
of our own realities...
So for me, I follow my own personal truth...and a
few basic universal concepts...
When I see prejudice, gender discrimination and
violence as undercurrents in religious folk, I find it to be
their own human flawed perspectives peeking out,
not God's.
Peace out.... :-D
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 7:58 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
I just think, one does not need an intercedent (religious figure)
to connect to God energy...we are all part of God,
and all made in it's likeness by being co-creators
of our own realities...
So for me, I follow my own personal truth...and a
few basic universal concepts...
When I see prejudice, gender discrimination and
violence as undercurrents in religious folk, I find it to be
their own human flawed perspectives peeking out,
not God's.
I have always felt this way.
Peace
|
| |
|
| Nov 24, 2007 @ 8:06 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
12knots
Posts: 6,400
|
This is true, knots. Remember the woman at the well. She was the first person Jesus sent out to tell others of Him.
Still not true reference:
Jesus was the first promoter of equality between males and females. He spoke to women in public, unheard of in those days, Jewish men ignored women in public. Jesus had women followers, took up for women.
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 25, 2007 @ 12:57 AM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
steveemac
Posts: 2,335
|
I'm not an expert on the Baha'i Faith and perhaps it is
immune to the flawed interpretation of
basic universal laws so many religions generate...
But you might have to do some convincing on my end. I'll start out with the premise I always start out with (and one that my involvement in the Baha'i Faith seems to bear out): All religions are perfect-it is imperfect man's interpretation of said religions that causes all the divisiveness. For example: does anyone believe that Christ taught that Heretics should be burned at the stake, or was that the popes of the time? Did Christ teach that His followers should commit group suicide, or was that Jim Jones?
Anything generated within the human mind and dimension
is flawed (my opinion of course). Only the God head is
all perfect in it's perception. This is true-but one must have faith in knowing what is merely man's creation, and what is truely divinely inspired.
I just think, one does not need an intercedent (religious figure)
to connect to God energy...we are all part of God,
and all made in it's likeness by being co-creators
of our own realities... The intercedent, or Manifestation of God, is not needed to connect to God, per se...but from time to time, these Manifestations help us to better understand what it is God want for -and from- us. Bottom line, though: one's personal relationship with God is, first and foremost, personal.
When I see prejudice, gender discrimination and
violence as undercurrents in religious folk, I find it to be
their own human flawed perspectives peeking out,
not God's. Hey, wait-that's what I said!
So now, let me show you a few things-and I'm not trying to "convince" you, as that would be a form of proselytizing, which is a big no-no in Baha'i...1. Prejudice against other cultures and races through lack of knowledge
of the "Outside" culture that remains "Different".
And we all know lack of knowledge causes... "Fear".
Fear causes violence leading to war. "But the difference of the qualities with regard to culture is very great, for education has great influence. Through education the ignorant become learned; the cowardly become valiant. Through cultivation the crooked branch becomes straight; the acid, bitter fruit of the mountains and woods becomes sweet and delicious; and the five-petaled flower becomes hundred-petaled. Through education savage nations become civilized, and even the animals become domesticated. Education must be considered as most important, for as diseases in the world of bodies are extremely contagious, so, in the same way, qualities of spirit and heart are extremely contagious. Education has a universal influence, and the differences caused by it are very great."--Abdu'l-Baha.
2. Gender discrimination (this is rampant). How can the world exist
in perfect balance when the rights of all humans are ignored? "Ninth: Bahá’u’lláh emphasized and established the equality of man and woman. Sex is not particularized to humanity; it exists throughout the animate kingdoms but without distinction or preference. In the vegetable kingdom there is complete equality between male and female of species. Likewise in the animal plane equality exists; all are under the protection of God. Is it becoming to man that he, the noblest of creatures, should observe and insist upon such distinction? Woman’s lack of progress and proficiency has been due to her need of equal education and opportunity. Had she been allowed this equality there is no doubt she would be the counterpart of man in ability and capacity. The happiness of mankind will be realized when women and men coordinate and advance equally, for each is the complement and helpmeet of the other."--Abdu'l-Baha
3. All this deep based bias and fear generates religious folk with the illusion they are given the authority for "Holy Wars". Resulting in the harsh
bloodshed of the Crusades and Jihads "The first teaching of Bahá’u’lláh is the investigation of reality. Man must seek the reality himself, forsaking imitations and adherence to mere hereditary forms. As the nations of the world are following imitations in lieu of truth and as imitations are many and various, differences of belief have been productive of strife and warfare. So long as these imitations remain the oneness of the world of humanity is impossible. Therefore we must investigate the reality in order that by its light the clouds and darkness may be dispelled. Reality is one reality; it does not admit multiplicity or division. If the nations of the world investigate reality they will agree and become united."--Abdu'l-Baha
|
| |
|
| Nov 26, 2007 @ 6:02 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
Meadowlark8
Posts: 686
|
Thanks so much for elaborating Steveemac, I was truly enlightened on
your perspective and enjoyed your post.
I bend more towards Eastern spirituality because it maintains
a direct and personal connection with God energy. It's the only
way, in my opinion, to truly be in connection with "All that is"
which created us in the first place. I came from a Catholic family
of 5 daughters. However, my parents pulled away from the Church
because they realized the Church was too male dominant and unbalanced.
Not to mention, my first grade Catholic school teacher, a nun, ran away with a priest. (It's true! Smile) However, I still have base beliefs in Christianity, Jesus and Mary. I feel they would not have generated the bias in the establishment as it exists today.
Right now I'm exploring the mediation exercises of "Falun Dafa/Gong".
I found out about it by a group of Yale students who practice it
every Sunday. The public are invited to join. It's supposed to regenerate
and balance the body's energy, "Chi". I have to admit, I do feel much more
energized and tranquil afterwards. I work at a very stressful job teaching
behavior disorder middle school students. Then teach after school to seriously ill, homebound students. Falun Dafa helps me destress after a long day....
Again, thanks for the elaboration!
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 26, 2007 @ 10:50 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
|
Right now I'm exploring the mediation exercises of "Falun Dafa/Gong".
I found out about it by a group of Yale students who practice it
every Sunday.
"Meadow", have you deeply looked into this practice and also have you researched it's history? This type of religious practice is common in young adults. Please, please review the links I provide below, and ask yourself , is this the type of spirituality I am looking for!
http://www.faluninfo.net/displayAnArticle.asp?ID=8784
The man who created Falun Gong...He was thrown out of his own country...China! and he has been spreading his cult in USA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Hongzhi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong
|
| |
|
| Nov 27, 2007 @ 9:42 AM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
sail_dancer
Posts: 9,865
|
Angel,
I think you should re-read the links you provided. Seems to be more evidence of communist objections to the free lectures than for its doctrines and practices.
Li's lectures were organised by the China Qigong Science Research Society (CQSRS), an official government body which profited the most from the lecture fees.[20] Li later began offering free lectures. After refusing a request to raise his tuition due to complaints from other qigong masters, Li withdrew from the CQSRS, claiming that it only tried to make money off the qigong masters, without doing any research on qigong.[20] Falun Gong sources claim that some of the individuals from the CQSRS began spreading rumours about Li Hongzhi to the government, also urging the government to curtail its growth[20] It all comes down to economics not religious practices.
Peace
|
|
| |
|
| Nov 27, 2007 @ 11:31 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
Meadowlark8
Posts: 686
|
Just to clarify a little, I am not easily influenced one way or another
on new religious philosophy territories.
However, I do enjoy the benefits of the relaxation exercises of Falun Gong.
I've read and actually disagree on a few concepts when reading some
their materials, however, that goes with every religious/spiritual material
I tend to look at.
The Falun Gong sites posted above, are focused on
how oppressive the Chinese government is on free
speech and religious practice of their citizens.
Those websites help me focus on what great a country we have.
We live in a country that allows us the freedom to express our
religious practices or spirituality in which ever way we choose....
And even share our differences on the web, amicably.
The Chinese on the other hand are imprisoned or tortured if they
dare to express something against the Communist philosophy or
interests.
Pretty sad situation if you ask me....
|
| |
|
| Dec 1, 2007 @ 5:16 PM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look
|
|
jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
|
paradoxically, i rely completely on reason and logic to define my christianity. i like to think that is why certain words are highlighted in red. selah.
|
|
| |
|
| Dec 2, 2007 @ 8:40 AM |
Reason and Logic excludes religion....a critical look |
|
frankbarks
Posts: 108
|
reason and logic excludes a hummingbird's ability to fly. Yet, bbbbbbzzzzzzz, there it goes.
|
| |
|
|
|
|