| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:03 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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There is no need for them to post, these testimonials are all over the internet. They are prob more than afraid of your acidity, can't say as I blame them.
As for you dream state, it doesn't even begin to compare with the testimonials I have posted here, so dream on, if that satisfies your concept of awareness.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:07 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,169
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Thanks for your amusing post hammertime.
You might thinking about starting your own thread geared specifically at enlightening us with these fascinating bits of information.
(As if you truly need any incouragement. hammertime Posts: 5,583 )
We are blessed to have exposure to one so gifted as an entertainer. Thank you for causing me to develop more fully many of our questions about Christianity.
Thank you for the comfort you show in being used by Him in the development of Christian-understanding in the MD community. 
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:15 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Bev,
I'm talking about MD members here. They have already posted their accounts so who needs to fear if they and you believe their accounts are real? Is reality a challenge for them as it is for you? I believe it is and I also believe some of them also believe it is.
Yes, dream states are not really hallucinations but Christians often talk about their dreams is if they were. Full blown hallucinations are far more vivid than normal dreams because the brain is acting abnormally as you may personally know well.
As for my concept of awareness, I never said anything about dreams being such but Christians do. I said they were dreams. Christians think dreams are visions. Waking up was my awareness and you don't experience that. Your awareness lacks a hold on lucidity and reality. You worship mental illness because that is your condition and its written in the bible too. Its also written in history.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:19 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Well, your dreams can have a meaning in your life.
People are afraid of you, hammer, you keep many from posting, but not from reading, look at the number who have already read.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:41 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Psychopaths don't have fear like normal people so whats to stop them? As for the rest, maybe they have self-doubts their hallucinations were anything but. Perhaps they realized they were mental aberrations after all but just couldn't admit it to themselves.
Mental illness is very embarrassing so they substituted the false belief it was a religious vision or experience. What else could it be?
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 9:45 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Lol, mr. expert. I would love to see your degree.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:04 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,599
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Dreams - What Are They and What Do They Mean?
Dreaming is defined as the subjective experience of imaginary images, sounds/voices, thoughts or sensations during sleep. Dreams represent a world of imagery in which our darkest fears, deepest secrets, and most passionate fantasies break out from the unconscious mind and only at this time become present to our own consciousness. There are several key questions that need to be addressed; for instance, "Why do we dream? What do dreams mean? And, where do dreams come from?" The answers to these questions are not that simple; however, recent studies and research has come a long way into divulging the human psyche and what dreams really are.
Dreaming usually occurs in the R.E.M. stage (rapid-eye movement) of sleep, in which brain activity is high and signaled by rapid horizontal movements of the eyes. Sometimes dreams occur during the other stages of sleep; however, these are much less memorable and less clear. They can sometimes last for a few seconds, or as long as twenty minutes. Dreams are a symbol and link to the inner core of the human subconscious. They can vary from normal and mundane, to surreal and bizarre. Dreams can often times drive creative thought, or provoke a sense of inspiration. Scientists believe everybody dreams, but sometimes we forget. We tend to forget when we naturally pass out of sleep through the traditional cycle. If a person is awoken directly from REM sleep (i.e. by an alarm clock), they are much more likely remember the dream from that REM cycle. Although it's most likely that not all dreams will be remembered because they occur in REM cycles, which are interrupted by periods of “delta sleep” which in turn have a tendency to cause the memory of previous dreams to fade.
"So if ones conscious mind is hallucinogenic dreams that can be remembered will embrace their conscious hallucinogenic ideal"
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:05 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Don't you claim to be an expert? Why aren't you able to show these hallucinations aren't hallucinations?
You know there is a new science called Neurotheology you should be interested in that studies religious experience. Such religious experiences are not the full blown hallucinations you're promoting however. Speaking in tongues is another. Its not language at all. Intercessory prayers, another false myth shown over and over not to work.
But I'm more interested in the so called "visions". Lets' hear more.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:13 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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I am interested in your dreams. We have already discussed that so-called science in another thread.
Start a thread and tell us your dreams, they have psychological significance, hammer, yash.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:18 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Well wouldn't that be off topic? Are you afraid to continue with your own OP? Perhaps then you should start a different thread on dreams. This one is about "visions" of the Lord. Isn't that what you really want to talk about?
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:24 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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http://www.guidetopsychology.com/dreams.htm
Come on, start us a thread with your dreams, hammer. Since you think they compare with the experiences I have posted on here.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:38 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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No, my dreams don't compare with the experiences you posted. The dreams I was referring to are those that happen while you sleep, the REM kind. Those you posted is something far different. What you posted were about "visions" of those who have seen the Lord. Are you trying to cover that? Isn't that avoidant? Why are you so afraid to continue talking about them as you were?
Why don't you try this? Explain how the brain is controlled by invisible forces so we can understand better how these "visions" enter the mind.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 10:49 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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hmmm, you were talking of dreams.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:16 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,584
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Here is a testamony christians do not want you to hear:
I no longer believe
.: posted 6/29/2007 ::: by .:webmaster:. ::: EmailThis! »
Sent in by Ray J
This is written for the purposes of 'coming out,' to finalise within myself what I have come to understand, and so others know that what they're doing and thinking is ok.
I am a bible college graduate (Faith Mission Bible College, Edinburgh) and a BA(Hons) Theology graduate (Nazarene Theological College, Manchester.)
I was the guy in school who made the anonymous evangelistic posters and stuck them up around the school.
I'm the guy who wouldn't go to my school formal becuase it was an un-Christian alcohol-fest.
I'm the guy that taught the others at Bible College about sanctification and initially shook my head at any bible other than the KJV.
I'm the guy who stood at 'open-air meetings' in Edinburgh and allowed myself to be laughed at, have stones thrown at me, and stood up bravely to teach the Gospel of Christ because I would stand against the world and be a fool for Christ.
I'm also the guy who felt a lot of misery becuase the world was such an awful bad place, a world full of sinners, and I wasn't one them...except that sometimes I was, that f****d with my 'heart.'
I'm the guy who missed out on so much of the social life a kid has because I was a Christian & I was gonna stand by Jesus rather than join the infidels.
I'm the guy who didn't discover I was actually an independent person until a little later because I was concerned with being someone else (Jesus Christ) rather than being myself, the guy who suffered a smack right between the eyes when I realised that I could be myself. I'm still dazzled by that smack between the eyes. It's great.
The first inkling that it was all nonsense was when I said in one of my missionary reports in-front of hundreds of people that I gave all of the glory to God for our missionary success and not to the organisation (I actually said it emphatically three times to impress my peers, "said brave words to impress the fundies" as a line in one of my poems goes.) My Faith Mission overseers pulled me in for saying this (SURPRISE!! Thought I was doing what was expected, thought I'd be declared a brave unshakable man of God) gave me the most blatant b******ing I had had up to that point, made me pray at the end to make it a 'Christian' b******ing and then boasted to someone afterword that I was 'that small' (showing a small size with fingers) when I left the office. (the person they boasted to informed my Father about their attitude.)
It's not out of anger at this that I left, although I am angry at how I was treated, it's just that this made me realise that I'd been serving a system and not Jesus. So, I resolved to serve Jesus alone, as I began to do this and think for myself I began to change and became vocal about it which caused one student to tell me that I had darkness in my eyes and was leading the group of guys I socialised with down hill.
So, I went to do my BA to learn more about the Bible and the tradition so I could serve my God in full truth and honesty forever-more, over the process of studying I slowly came to realise that it doesn't make sense. Just look at the proceeding pagan myths, the theories of NT construction not to mention the fact that Christianity simply uses the same arguments over and above Judaism as Islam uses over and above Christianity as Bahai uses over and above them all....where you gonna stop with that then, and man I wish God would stop starting all these new religions lol.)
On-top of that, as a philosophy, it's very in-humane, the god behind this existence just philosophically can't be sensibly thought of in the same way as the Christian God.
You wanna learn about god? Get your head outta that holy book (Man if gods gonna teach us he isn't going to write it in an abusable twistable book) and look at what's around you.
I've spent the last 3 years since graduating trying to convince myself that it is true, but it can't be done, the evidence says it's not, and I feel so happy that I no longer believe in this. That I've been strong enough to overcome the psychological bashing Christianity had previously given me. I feel so free, so REDEEMED, it's unbelievable!
The only reason someone who pursues an honest evaluation into Christianity will continue to believe in Christianity is because they want it to be true more than they want to discover the truth.
Thanks to deciding to serve Jesus alone I no longer believe the system they blamed him on or the book they wrote about him. I think there probably was an enthusiastic Jewish preacher behind the stories, but f*** did his followers screw him over. Poor guy.
Continued
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:16 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,584
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I'm not an atheist though, I don't think that makes enough sense either, eternally existent physical matter makes a whole lot less sense to me than an eternally existent metaphysical energies (god in popular thought,) but I can understand why some are. It might even be 'god' who helped me get out of the Christian nonsense because whilst still a Christian I prayed very earnestly again and again to know the truth and see reality, maybe my desires where somehow acknowledged by the energies behind existence I don't know. My studies suggest some sort of pantheistic 'god,' but I also think that the only honest philosophical perspective on 'god' is that of agnosticism.
Only problem is I gave my whole education over to this Christian foolishness, despite one of my teachers telling me not to, what a waste...but then, becuase of who I was, if I hadn't I'd still be stuck in that mythological & oppressive anti-human system.
Now for the closing note of my freedom song: for those who think that my only problem is encountered in evangelical theology, I began training some time after my evangelical education to work towards becoming an Eastern Orthodox priest, but their theologies fall apart too. And I've read Brian McLaren and been a student and advocate of Emerging Christianity for the past couple of years, but then I woke up. There's no point in building an emerging post-modern theology upon myths that just aren't true, no matter how post-modernly palatable these new theologies happen to be, the myths they are built on just aren't true, so there's no point in advocating an immature theology which exists only to preserve ancient myths in new theologies. Just drop the myths and move on.
There are many more and if I have the time I'll post them.
Peace
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:41 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,599
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Poor guy imagine what he would have written if he had a Doctors in Theology from a non liberal University that goes back in time to include all religions and Living belief system before Monotheism reared it's ugly conceptual myths and fables sans any verifiable source.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:45 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Lol, sail, OFF TOPIC
 You are perfectly welcome to do your posts, but make your own thread.
You need to go to the site I gave yash in buddhism thread, read, enjoy, is much like you.
[Edited on 11/16/2007 11:47 AM]
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:47 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Bev,
What ever happened to the golden rule? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You're getting what you give. You were way off topic on my thread but then I just let it go. So why don't you just let it go.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:48 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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No, mine had revelance, this has no revelance whatsoever. This thread was started for inspiration, not argument or debate. He can start his own thread.
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| Nov 16, 2007 @ 11:57 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Only relevance in your mind because you wanted to avoid the actual thesis of that thread. You just weren't able to deal with intellectually challenging principles and only wanted to focus on dogma for the gullible. Somehow you did want to talk about Pascal's Wager later on maybe because you use it all the time. You get what you give.
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