| May 28 @ 12:52 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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This comes back to:
"Who is to say Christians or any man for that matter doesnt experience phenomena of one sort or another.
I see the problem lays in the understanding of truth within these matters. One says this is how it is, another says it doent exist, another says glory be its my God, and so forth.
Most individuals are ignorant to the truths of the matter. The experience comes from what is known or what their perception can be under the little knowledges and experiences they have."
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| May 28 @ 1:44 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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unionman154
Posts: 178
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I never had the Lord come to me in my dreams but I did once cum dreaming of a beautiful Pinay with long thick black hair.
I chased her but she got away.
Oh fck me this isn't the sex thread I thought it was. 
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| May 28 @ 3:00 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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 Those ain't the kind of fantasies religious fantastics have. Well maybe they do but beat themselves up instead.
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| May 28 @ 3:53 PM |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,169
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 ??
What are you talking about in this post??
"You saw a pink elephant too? You ain't the only one who has such a mental disorder that allows such experiences to occur."
This is incredibly irresponsible. Even for you. 
[Edited on 5/28/2008 4:41 PM]
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| May 28 @ 4:07 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Whats your problem SOC? What do you think causes hallucinations?
You think a normal brain hallucinates? You need some kind of injury, stress, or defect for that to occur?
Just curious. What do you think a hallucination is?
[Edited on 5/28/2008 4:38 PM]
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| May 28 @ 6:28 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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SOC
have you looked up what a hallucination is or are you having one? They're a lot more fun when you're around friends at a party else you can have a bad trip.
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| May 28 @ 8:15 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,876
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In the church I grew up in,believe it or not,"visions" and "voices" were looked at suspisciously and the Baptist church frowns on tongues,or at least did back in my day.Now since my parents were musicians who performed in various churches,I was also exposed to faiths that believed in everything from tongues to talking to the dead.It always begs to question which no one believer or not has offered to answer to my satisfaction.
What is the purpose of these supposed supernatural events?What is God doing here and why is he doing it?If he has a message to impart,why does he have to get inside one person's head,why not just interupt radio and TV broadcasts?Why out of all the people in the world did he pick SoC to heal on the condition he become celibate?Where's his and SoC's payoff?Are people being saved daily because of SoC's personal life sacrifice?Here again,wouldn't there be more efficient ways of accomplishing this?What does God exactly get out of someone practicing celibacy?He must be one possessive,sick SoB to want his children to punish themselves and deprive their natural (God given) instincts.No one I want anything to do with,so glad he's a myth.Odin is more interesting.
From my own observations on these and other religious "phenomena",they boil down to two categories:Scam and mental illness.Unfortunately the two run hand in hand.For every mentally sick person,there's unfortunately scam artists to prey on them and support their delusions for profit. 
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| May 28 @ 11:17 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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SOC
Did you figure out what a hallucination is yet?
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| May 29 @ 7:34 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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From my own observations on these and other religious "phenomena",they boil down to two categories:Scam and mental illness.
Or total ignorance of the denouncer.
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| May 29 @ 8:20 AM |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Thor,
Just like the Talking Heads movie, you have to Stop Making Sense because sense or common sense just don't exist in credulous and gullible folks. The more weird a "phenomenon" is, the more they believe in it. This is why they so easily believe in talking animals and apparitions of dead saviors and angels. Just chatting with these folks should show enough evidence they haven't much going on upstairs. There are some who are more intelligent but they are selective and erroneous in their reasoning. They will use logic pretty well up to a point they dispense with it and take a "leap of faith" into the delusional as demonstrated in their most famous ontological arguments for example. There is something certainly wrong with their ability to follow through in critical analysis which results in them going through life as fanatical, religious, gullible and ignorant. What else would explain someone having a conversation with a voice in the room and agreeing on a virtual castration? There was either a hidden microphone and speaker in the room or it was a hallucination caused by brain injury, trauma, stress or some other mental illness. These folks have a verity of experiences with "phenomenon" caused by mental aberrations such as temporal lobe epilepsy, schizophrenia, and psychosis that may sum up as what we know to be the Jerusalem syndrome.
SOC
Did you figure out what a hallucination is yet?
[Edited on 5/29/2008 8:26 AM]
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| May 29 @ 8:28 AM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,584
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Or total ignorance of the denouncer.
Total ignorance? I don't think so.
Failing to include the possibility that spiritual encounters, though unprovable, exits? Yes.
By rejecting the theory that spiritual encounters exist, Hammer is not looking at it as a scientist would. If they did, Quantum Theory would not exist today.
Do I think that spiritual encounters exist as a truth? No.
Do I rule out the possibility that they exist? No. With an open mind I cannot do this.
Peace
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| May 29 @ 8:55 AM |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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If we think of the brain as a finely turned radio gone bad and so receives "junk" interference may appear to be "phenomenon" but is really just noise. These so called psychic phenomenon experiences has been induced in in normal people using electromagnetic fields making them feel there are invisible beings are in the room or aliens. Leading brain scientists and physicists have come a long way in understanding what the brain is doing.
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| May 29 @ 12:24 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Total ignorance? I don't think so.
Failing to include the possibility that spiritual encounters, though unprovable, exits? Yes.
By rejecting the theory that spiritual encounters exist, Hammer is not looking at it as a scientist would. If they did, Quantum Theory would not exist today.
Do I think that spiritual encounters exist as a truth? No.
Do I rule out the possibility that they exist? No. With an open mind I cannot do this.
A denouncer only knows how to denounce. In this case with narrow minded view. "It has been denounced" is the only cry when no "open mind" is present.
He only sees with his experience and does not project his view beyond what he knows therefore can not know what is beyond him.
He is the prisoner in the prison he has created.
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| May 29 @ 12:57 PM |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Can you know what is beyond you? If you can then its not really beyond you is it? If you can't, its because, its beyond you....
Damned logic...
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| May 29 @ 1:05 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Can you know what is beyond you?
Yes, unless you set yourself limitations thinking "I only know what is in front of me now." Like the happy farmer who only knows his fields and his village. Another man bounded by the same experiences of the farmer thinks there must be more to this life, he becomes a seeker, an explorer. He learns beyond his present limitations of the farmers fields and village and seeks to find other lands and seas beyond the fields.
If you can then its not really beyond you is it?
You do not know this unless you seek.
If you can't, its because, its beyond you....
Again, you set the limitation on yourself. As the farmer says to the returning explorer... " You have found nothing, you are delusional, I dont believe your stories of lands and seas beyond my fields."
Damned logic...
Perception.
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| May 29 @ 1:15 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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If you can't, its because, its beyond you...
Again, you set the limitation on yourself. Doesn't matter how it happens, what is beyond is beyond you. Of course much is a self imposed limitations. It usually is. Indoctrination is the worst kind.
Damned logic is perception. Isn't that why we use logic, to perceive in the best possible way logically and rationally? Logic is unavoidable even when its not perceived. Logic however may be misused and misapplied. It usually is. See any religious argument for examples. Hallucinations are excellent examples of distorted perceptions.
If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. Must be a warning about those distorted perceptions. That could work for seeing Jesus on the road hitch hiking too. Just make sure its not some long haired hippy wearing sandals.
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| May 29 @ 1:29 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,152
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The experience comes from what is known or what their perception can be under the little knowledges and experiences they have."
Not always. Many times something so far outside of the ordinary happens that it is clear what it was and where it came from. That is why so many that end up believing in the Lord can not be shaken from their faith. Personal knowledge becomes irrelevant at that point and only knowledge that is beyond the person can even begin to explain.
S
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| May 29 @ 1:31 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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And speaking of distorted perceptions.......
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| May 29 @ 1:52 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,584
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Actually this was one of Seal's better posts Hammer.
I may not agree with him but he made a claim and explained why he felt that way.
Good post Seal!
Peace
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| May 29 @ 2:01 PM |
Testimonies of those who have seen the Lord |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Doesn't matter how it happens, what is beyond is beyond you. Of course much is a self imposed limitations. It usually is. Indoctrination is the worst kind.
In an absolute sense there is not knowing what is beyond you. However, our frame of reference is YOU as we are now. "Nothing Beyond" is the limitation set by You.
Damned logic is perception. Isn't that why we use logic, to perceive in the best possible way logically and rationally? Logic is unavoidable even when its not perceived. Logic however may be misused and misapplied. It usually is. See any religious argument for examples. Hallucinations are excellent examples of distorted perceptions.
Many things are "logical" because we perceive them that way. It isnt always so. "Our Logic" sits in jails waiting for the innocent man to be freed. Unfortunately many have been executed because of logic yet were truthfully innocent.
Again, you can NOT judge another mans experience as an "Hallucination," because to do so is ignorance. Who can judge another mans experience as the innocent man is executed?
If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. Must be a warning about those distorted perceptions. That could work for seeing Jesus on the road hitch hiking too. Just make sure its not some long haired hippy wearing sandals.
Killing the Buddha
There's an old saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."
Who's that Buddha? What does it mean to "meet" the Buddha? What does killing the Buddha imply?
The historical Buddha, Shakyamuni, on attaining enlightenment, is said to have realized that all beings, just as they are, are Buddhas. If that's so, meeting a Buddha on the road should be a pretty commonplace event! So should being a Buddha on the road! But that's where the word "meeting" comes in. It implies encountering something or someone outside or other than oneself. We all come to practice carrying around images or ideals of who we should be and what we imagine a Teacher or Buddha should look like. And we may chase after individuals that for a while seem like they live up to our image, ignore those who do not, and generally treat ourselves with contempt for not living up to the standards set by our imaginary inner "Buddha." All this may keep us pretty busy, but it has nothing to do with real practice, which is an awareness of who and what we actually are, not the pursuit of some ideal of who we think we should be. So "killing the Buddha" means killing or wiping out this fantasy image, and "the road" is two fold: the road outside where we look outside ourselves for the ones who have all the answers, and the inner mind road, where we set up all the "shoulds" we must obey to turn ourselves into the Buddhas we don't believe we already are, but think we must become.
It is said that Shakyamuni's last dying words to his disciples were, "Be a lamp unto yourselves." Be your own light, your own authority, your own Buddha. Kill off every image of the Buddha, see who and what you are in this very moment, see that there is no Buddha other than THIS MOMENT..... etcetera
Again calling someone else's experience an Hallucination is ignorance even by the text of "Killing the Buddha."
Each individual will perceive his experiences as they are. What other man has the right to say another man is right or wrong because he experiences a vision, or a phenomena, the accuser can not experience another's path.
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