| Nov 29, 2007 @ 9:49 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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Godless
Posts: 652
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What is the purpose of forgiveness?
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:07 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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uncrazy
Posts: 2,382
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For me it is the actual path to return to God. I find it hidden in the story of how Jesus was sacrficed for sins by a Father who can only be perfect love planning an unloving act. If I am redeemed by Jesus' death I don't have to confront that only my ego places God somewhere outside of me. I can then not forgive others for the fact that they are guilty only because I judged them (I'll call my judgement discernment) and it allows a second level of protection from more deeply buried self guilt.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:16 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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uncrazy,
Do you see the insanity in what you just wrote?
Forgiveness is very simple to comprehend but extremely difficult to do. Why all the dogmatic theological nonsense that only undermines personal responsibility by projecting it onto a phantasm that doesn't exist?
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:23 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,059
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To me, forgiveness is an act of love. It is an act of love to give forgiveness and an act of love to accept it.
The most important thing about forgiveness is to forgive yourself first, then you will have room in your heart to forgive others.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:28 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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Quantum physics tells us that 'forgiveness' is good for our bodies....
I wish I knew the name of the Japanese scientist who did an experiment on
how negative and positive intentions
actually produce 'different' patterns in water........
I saw his photographs on the movie 'What the Bleep Do We Know',
Does anybody know what percentage of 'our body' is WATER?
I know it's ninety%something
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:35 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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uncrazy
Posts: 2,382
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Yes I clearly see the insanity, but I must say some of what I said was not as clearly stated as it could have been. To believe in the story of a perfect loving being creating a heinous act on his son would allow me to proceed in a particular form of sanity that allows me to remain alienated form others and my understanding of God.
You may even consider the subsequent words about forgiveness in that post to be additional insanity. It is a viewpoint from your perspective. I can only see my worldview from my own point of viewing. I'll likely allow you to have yours and my own will develop further from here. To me it is of no value for you to see the world as I do.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:35 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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BandTMom
Posts: 38,059
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The human body consists of 55% to 78% water depending on body size. Babies have the most at 78%.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:43 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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Snappygoddess
Posts: 5,100
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Any forgiving I do is for ME... so I can move on in my life and not let negative emotions hold me back. It is MY choice to forgive someone, but it is THEIR choice to accept or not...I would rather they accept but if they don't...my forgiveness is complete on my part.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:45 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The most important thing about forgiveness is to forgive yourself first Forgive one's self for exactly what? That you didn't do better in school? That you didn't get the raise? That you rushed someone off the phone? Everyone can look back in retrospect and say they could have done much better. These are trivial things.
Can someone forgive themselves for murder? for stealing? for telling a lie that caused someone else to die? These are major crimes.
Can you forgive for the murder of your family? Can you forgive people who systematically tortured and murdered everyone around on a daily basis? Can you forgive someone for torturing you?
Eva Kor has forgiven and she doesn't believe in God. She was tortured in medical experiments by Josef Mengele himself in the Nazi death camp. She forgave all of them. As she puts it. Forgiveness is nothing more and nothing less but an act of self-healing -- an act of self-empowerment. And I immediately felt a burden of pain was lifted from my shoulder -- that I was no longer a victim of Auschwitz, that I was no longer a prisoner of my tragic past, that I was finally free.
This is an extremely sad story but a very powerful message of hope and the power of forgiveness.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week1046/profile.html#
Read the story and watch the video of her interview.
[Edited on 11/29/2007 10:49 PM]
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:48 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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I agree Snappy
Mom,,,I thought it was in the 90th percentile,,
,oh well the point is
this Japanese scientists experiments re water
show what we do to our inner chemical energy
when we hold,,,,or,,,,project negative thoughts
Wish I could track him down on the web,,,,would love to get a blue link posted for his experiment,,,,because,,,,a picture is worth a thousand words and his photo's
of the water crystals are 'impacting'
Hammer,,,just saw your post,,  ,,,,so very true,,,,thanx 
[Edited on 11/29/2007 10:55 PM]
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:54 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Eva Kor is an inspiration, a true authentic and self actualized human being. She does not embrace religion. If she did she would likely be full of hatred, anger, pain and self-righteousnesses but she is not. She is a clear thinker, an awakened person who can see clearly enough that allowed her to forgive in the truest sense possible. I hope one day I could meet her and give her a hug. I have met holocaust survivors. The carry a pain greater than you can imagine. They know what hell is.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 10:57 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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What a 'mensch' you are Hammer with your post
Being awake is so necessary to see truth,,,,but,,,,
some of us have to be awakened,  ,,veeeeery gently,,,,
or else we get grouchy 
[Edited on 11/29/2007 11:05 PM]
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:01 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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This deserves a separate post,,,no apologies
I have personal experience with
how challenging it is for survivors of the holocaust
and the families of survivors
to forgive,
Again Hammer,,,,thanks for the link
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:03 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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Carp, try this link and see if it is Dr. Masaru Emoto on Water Crystals...
http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htm
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:05 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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Oh Angel,,,,I'm so excited,,,,didya come thru for me again,,,,,,,, 
going now to look at the link 
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:08 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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Oh Carp...here's another one......great pics!
http://www.adhikara.com/art_kunst/emoto/water-7.htm
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:09 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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carpediem48
Posts: 3,312
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Ok Angel,,,,,it is the same guy
Could u do me a favor and post the link on my blog,,,,thanx sweetie
Going back now to the link
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:13 PM |
Serious question for religionists |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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. To believe in the story of a perfect loving being creating a heinous act on his son would allow me to proceed in a particular form of sanity that allows me to remain alienated form others and my understanding of God.
The insanity is this. The whole idea that any human sacrifice to be necessary at all to appease a god is primitive and ignorant. Even if there was a real crucifixion, the twisted ideology came afterwards when a blood lust religion was created. The idea of it being necessary for a son dying for the father makes no rational sense as it made no sense in the original story of Abraham and Issac. The crucifixion is just a repeat of the same underlying symbolism of Issac's binding. I completely understand the theology behind it. Its based on the idea of a god who needs to be fed. I've studied enough of it which is why I consider this kind of religiosity to be mentally and emotionally deranged especially in the 21st century. Those that accept this form of ancient and dark age theology must have a set of detached and inappropriate emotions that supports delusional ideas of reality.
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| Nov 29, 2007 @ 11:44 PM |
Serious question for religionists
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,438
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Thanks for your posts Uncrazy.
You don't post much any more. 
Your words are always enjoyable to read. And I think I'm not alone in thinking that. Clearly you put some deep thought into them.
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| Nov 30, 2007 @ 12:20 AM |
Serious question for religionists |
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Jankia
Posts: 11,900
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To me its purpose is to enhance what everyone should have more of...love.
No,I couldnt forgive anyone that used torture, murdered or raped a member of my family or society but it would be easier for me to deal with if I could somehow.
Thats why you have to be able to forgive yourself to better forgive others.You cannot forget the reason why another person should be forgiven but by forgiving yourself you can forget that element of anger,hate or disgust in another person,making life easier for yourself.
Forgive and Forget
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