| Dec 15, 2007 @ 8:52 AM |
Religion at work
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eAngel6969
Posts: 91
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I have always taken a live and let live where religion is concerned..but lately at work it seems that a separation of church and state is disappearing and it is really starting to annoy me...
We are in a major transition of upper management where I work - which happens to be for the government. The other day a woman was heard saying " I hope they put believers in those positions." A day later she was on a hiring panel that decided 2 of those positions and then affected 3 other interim position appointments. All but one position went to a click of people who are "believers" and in my opinion not all were the best for the job. They exhibit a poor work ethic and bully people they are supposed to be mentoring. I know she's only one person, but when a panel cannot come to a consensus, it goes to a nonpanel party for a tie break - who is another "believer."
I am in upper management myself and don't answer to any of these positions but am decidedly disappointed in the direction my workplace seems to be headed. Religious belief and poor work ethic are being rewarded - and I don't see it being good for the workplace efforts or morale.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 8:58 AM |
Religion at work |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,195
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Sounds like your people could use some more training. By engaging in that kind of apparent behavior, they open up the company to some really sweet lawsuits.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 11:42 AM |
Religion at work
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,199
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I would lean towards asking if the company is "an equal opportunity employer", if so what does the policy handbook say about religion tolerance in the work place? 
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 11:51 AM |
Religion at work |
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Martin666
Posts: 2,195
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Most businesses are subject to EEO regulations if they have 15 or more employees. That includes part time and temp help. Other federal laws that don't involve the EEOC cover all companies with one or more employee. Whether or not the company handbook says something about religious tolerance isn't relevant. Federal and State law trumps an Employee Handbook every time.
You can’t refuse to hire someone because he or she is Jewish; you can’t promote someone because he or she is Muslim. There is a very rare and narrow exception to this rule, called the bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) requirement. If the nature of the job you are filling absolutely requires that it be filled by an employee of a particular religion -- for example, if you are hiring priests in the Catholic Church -- then you can make religion part of your hiring criteria. In all other situations, however, your job-related decisions must be based on nondiscriminatory reasons.
Visit the EEOC website and file a complaint. You may also start private litigation against the company.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 12:16 PM |
Religion at work
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bevrice
Posts: 11,141
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You are so right, but sometimes and employer could be thinking about honesty and dependability. I am not saying that all believers are either or both, but the is a much better chance that they are, in some employers viewpoint.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 12:32 PM |
Religion at work |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Then their viewpoint is wrong. Its the same as saying a white employer and white employee has the same viewpoint but that would have nothing to do with business skills which is the only viewpoint that matters.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 1:25 PM |
Religion at work
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bevrice
Posts: 11,141
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Well, it could depend on the type of business it is, hammer.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 3:07 PM |
Religion at work |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,628
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I can't imagine hiring someone because they are a "Beleiever". A believer in what? or Who?
All I wanted was people to show up at work, and do what was expected of them while they were there! It didn't matter to me what color, religion or male/female.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 3:12 PM |
Religion at work
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bevrice
Posts: 11,141
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Me, either, Katt, but it seems like some people have this sterotype.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 3:38 PM |
Religion at work |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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Separation of church and state is not in the constitution of the US. Nor is it meant to mean an absence of religion from public life. It indicative of no government sanctioned or mandated religion as it was in England at the time that the concept was coined. Thomas Jefferson coined this phrase in a letter to a church that was concerned about the government interfering with their practices. Jefferson wrote this letter to console them that the government would not interfere with them in any way.
Religion has always been a part of the world and in its absence secularism is the religion that seems to be surfacing. Poor work ethic has been rewarded for many years too and is a separate issue that government endorsed religion. The concept of separation has come to a new meaning because of those that would contort the words and meaning of the founders of this nation, most of whom were Christians despite revisionist history.
S
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 3:44 PM |
Religion at work
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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it could depend on the type of business it is
She works for the government. This is supposed to be a secular government, not a theocracy. Religious leanings should have NO effect on employment or advancement. Please show me where being a "believer" is the same as being "ethical", "effective" or "moral". --- or ostensibly BETTER? 
...in my opinion not all were the best for the job. They exhibit a poor work ethic and bully people they are supposed to be mentoring
Personally, I'd prefer that God NOT "provide" to people like that unless he also provides the dollars, not TAX dollars, to pay them. As a matter of fact, I'd rather see him provide the dollars to them NOT to work there and allow someone else, of any "belief" the opportunity to EARN their pay and do their jobs efficiently and with respect toward their clients. 
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 3:49 PM |
Religion at work |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,611
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Personally I think the people who founded this country would best be described as pragmatists. For heaven's sake, they were REBELS who wouild have been hanged as traitors if they'd lost. The conservative types who believed that governmental rights were literally God-granted were the ones who supported the Crown, not the revolution.
Talk about revisionist! 
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 6:45 PM |
Religion at work
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steveemac
Posts: 2,335
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Sounds like these "believers" in the workplace are the same type of adults that are parents to the kids that follow MY kids around at their public school and tell them, "You're going to Hell!"
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 7:33 PM |
Religion at work |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,681
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She works for the government. This is supposed to be a secular government, not a theocracy
Then with this premise in mind all people with any religious affiliations at all should be banned from government service or job, EVERYONE.
Sounds a bit ludicrous doesn't it? That is what your concept of separation sounds like not to mention a major deviation from the intent of the founders of this nation that instituted the government we have in the first place, and they were, for the majority, Christian. How to reconcile that to the modern deviation of their stance, actions, and statements, all well documented I might add.
S
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 7:43 PM |
Religion at work
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Then with this premise in mind all people with any religious affiliations at all should be banned from government service or job, EVERYONE.
I think this is a good idea. I'm glad you thought of it. No trolls in government either.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 7:49 PM |
Religion at work |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,611
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Then with this premise in mind all people with any religious affiliations at all should be banned from government service or job, EVERYONE.
Nope, just those persons who put their religious affiliations ahead of the commitment they've made, by law, to base their employment choices on peoples' qualifications as opposed to their race, religion or ethnicity. What's tough to understand about that, and in what way does it differ from the founding fathers' decision not to bring the name of God into the constitution? The bill of rights guarantees freedom of religion to everyone, which the founding fathers obiously intended to mean EVERYONE, not just Christians - they made their intent very clear, regardless of their own religious affiliations.
Poor work ethic has been rewarded for many years
Ethics of any type, work or otherwise, aren't limited to the religious - in fact, the lowest percentage of prison inmates are those who describe themselves as atheists, the highest percentage are christians. In fact, the OP specifically said that the work ethic displayed by the people being given preference due to their religious beliefs was less than stellar.
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 8:16 PM |
Religion at work
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Martin666
Posts: 2,195
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Heaven... 
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 9:50 PM |
Religion at work |
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waterfire
Posts: 2,946
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am in upper management myself and don't answer to any of these positions but am decidedly disappointed in the direction my workplace seems to be headed.
It is just a trend, seems to be the thing to do with this current administration ( u did not notice they came out of the wood work once da BUsh came to office?)
Why peopel do not see that it is and always will be a private thing within each of us I will never understand. Sheesh, to hire someone because of faith is WAY beyond anything my mind can comprehend!
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 9:55 PM |
Religion at work
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waterfire
Posts: 2,946
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honesty and dependability.
Funny you should say that Bev, my mom a Christian;s Christian told me once...if EVER doing business with someone and they start talking religion bend over because they want to screw you...well I paraphrase, she was too much a lady to say that.
Being religious has NOTHING to do with honor/being true so dont go there. 
God, an honest christian...LOL, to me it is a honest human. 
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| Dec 15, 2007 @ 10:04 PM |
Religion at work |
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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The more someone has to convince you of something, the less they have to convince you with. Religion is no different in that regard.
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