| Dec 22, 2007 @ 2:49 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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raykl
Posts: 566
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So why is the birth of Jesus celebrated on the 25th and how accurate is the whole virgin birth and life stories that surround this Biblical figure? Is the Bible all truth, or stories written to inspire?
I am fully aware that Pagan Mythology, as the Bible, is open to various interpretations. Different cultures weave their own beliefs into the same figure. It is all interpretation. One group believes it happened this way,
another group believes in another version. But there is enough evidence to support that some Pagan groups did believe and preach what follows, long before the birth of Jesus. The study of Mithra is a very interesting study for Christians.
The actual birthdate of Jesus was forgotten by the early Christian movement. In those days, the Ressurection was considered the most important event. Various groups celebrated his birth on JAN-6, APR-21 and MAY-1. By the 4th century, the church selected the approximate time of the winter solstice as the date to recognize Jesus' birth. This date, as many church holidays, was from Pagan sources. The autumn equinox might have been a more accurate choice.
The winter solstice occurs about Dec-21 each year. Using instruments available, ancient astronomers were able to see by Dec-25 that the daytime had become shorter. This date was remains the traditional date for followers of many different Pagan religions to celebrate the rebirth of the sun. It was seen as a promise
that warmth would return once more to the earth.
Numerous pre-Christian Pagan religions honored their gods' birth or rebirth on or about that day. Their gods were typically called: Son of Man-Light of the World-Sun of Righteousness-Bridegroom and Savior.
Here are some examples:
Roman Pagan Religion: Attis was a son of the virgin Nana. Worship of Attis began in Rome circa 200 BCE
His birth was celebrated on DEC-25.
He was sacrificed as an adult in order to bring salvation to mankind.
He died about MAR-25, after being crucified on a tree, and descended for three days into the underworld. On Sunday, he arose, as the solar deity for the new season. His followers tied an image of Attis to a tree on "Black Friday," and carried him in a procession to the temple. His body was symbolically eaten by his followers in the form of bread.
Greek Pagan Religion: Dionysus is another savior-god whose birth was observed on DEC-25. He was worshipped throughout much of the Middle East as well. He had a center of worship in Jerusalem in the 1st century BCE. Some ancient coins have been found in Gaza with Dionysus on one side and JHWH (Jehovah) on the other. His flesh and blood were symbolically eaten in the form of bread and wine. He was viewed as the son of Zeus, the Father God.
Egyptian Pagan Religion: Osiris is a savior-god who had been worshipped as far back as Neolithic times. "He was called Lord of Lords, King of Kings, God of Gods. the Resurrection and the Life, the Good shepherd...the god who 'made men and women be born again". Three wise men announced his birth. His followers ate cakes of wheat which symbolized his body. Many sayings associated with Osiris were taken over into the Bible.
This included: 23rd Psalm: an appeal to Osiris as the good Shepherd to lead believers through the valley of the shadow of death and to green pastures and still waters
Lord's Prayer: "O amen, who art in heaven..."
Many other parables attributed to Jesus.
Persian Pagan Religion: Mithra was a Persian savior. Worship of Mithra became common throughout the Roman Empire, particularly among the Roman civil service and military.
Mithraism was a competitor of Christianity until the 4th century. Their god was believed to have been born on DEC-25, circa 500 BCE. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and by gift-carrying Magi.
This was celebrated as the "Dies Natalis Solic Invite," The "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Some followers believed that he was born of a virgin. During his life, he performed many miracles, cured many illnesses, and cast out devils.
He celebrated a Last Supper with his 12 disciples. He ascended to heaven at the time of the spring equinox, about March 21.
The Babylonians celebrated their "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival on DEC-25. Saturnalia (the Festival of Saturn) was celebrated from DEC-17 to 23 in the RomanEmpire. The Roman Emperor Aurelian blended Saturnalia with a number of birth celebrations of savior gods from other religions, into a single holy day: DEC-25.
After much argument, the developing Christian church adopted this date as the birthday of their savior, Jesus. The people of the Roman Empire were accustomed to celebrating the birth of a god on that day, thus. it was easy for the church to divert people's attention to Jesus' birth.
I am not asking you to believe or disbelieve: just something to think about.
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 2:59 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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Pre-Christian origins
A winter festival was traditionally the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included less agricultural work needing to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere.[1] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[2][3] Most of the most important gods in the religions of
Ishtar and Mithra had their birthdays on December 25.
* The 25th December was celebrated in ancient days as the birthday of the unconquerable SUN god, (variously know as Tammuz, Mithra, Saturn, Adonis or BAAL) centuries before Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem.
]* Nowhere in the Bible are believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob required to celebrate Christmas.
* The early Christian church did not celebrate Christmas. Instead it celebrated the sacred festivals mentioned in the Bible, in Leviticus chapter 23.
* In order to win Gentile converts to the Christian faith, the Roman Church, centuries after the apostolic era, adopted this ancient pagan winter festival of the SUN god and renamed it 'Christmas' mistakenly thinking that it would honour the SON of God.
* Scholars have for centuries known these facts. They can be confirmed in any reference library.
The 25th of December was also the birthday of the Roman god Mithras () and the Greek hero Dionysus. Mithras was known as the unconquered sun, hence his association with the solstice time. Early Christianity adopted the 25th as Christ's birthday around the 3rd or 4th century BC birthday, as the early scriptures do not record the day of Christ's birth. This is generally accepted to have been a way of amalgamating Christmas with the older festival of the sun, which was still being observed by the Pagan community. It also helped to replace the worship of Mithras, which once rivalled Christianity in popularity.
Seems very similar to all 44 pages of it 
http://www.matchdoctor.com/forumPostReply.aspx?forumID=87&threadID=24829&postID=1019400&page=1
[Edited on 12/22/2007 3:03 PM]
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:01 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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THE TRUE BIRTHDAY OF JESUS
According to the best information I can find, Jesus was born on the 14th of May in 6 BC. Therefore His 2,000 birthday was on 14 May 1995. Regardless of which date you choose for the birthday of Jesus it was not on December 25th or January 6th and God never intended that it would be observed and celebrated. God wants us to remember the death, burial and resurrection of His Son, which is the Good News and the purpose of His coming.
For several centuries the Christian assembly itself paid little attention to the celebration of Jesus' birth. The major Christian festival was Passover, the day of His Resurrection. Only gradually, as the church developed a calendar to commemorate the major events of the life of Jesus, did it celebrate His birth.
Because the date of Jesus' birth had been forgotten, a day had to be selected. The Eastern Orthodox and the Eastern Rite churches chose January 6 while the Western church, based in Rome, chose December 25. It is known from a notice in an ancient Roman almanac that Christmas was celebrated on December 25 in Rome in AD 336. For 300 years His birthday was not celebrated so why should we celebrate it today?
It is said the "Jesus is the reason for the season" but it never was so from the beginning. Today Christmas is a celebration for the god of possessions and merchandise. Santa Clause is this god's name and you had better watch out for he is keeping a list of who is naughty and who is nice. At least that is the teaching of the followers of this god.
Our HOPE, SALVATION, and REDEMPTION is in Jesus not Santa. Yet it seems that more people believe in Santa than in Jesus. Whom will you choose to follow?
"Don't lay up treasures for yourselves on the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consume, and where thieves don't break through and steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can't serve both God and Mammon." Matthew 6:19-24 WEB
NOTE: Those who follow Christ are full of light while those who follow Santa are full of darkness.
Does this mean Christians cannot give gifts during Christmas and observe the holiday? In this area, as in many others, a balance must be sought. Churches should not have Christmas trees or anything to do with Santa Clause in their programs. Christian families should teach their children, at an early age, that Santa Clause is not real and does not bring gifts. They should not be taken to set on Santa's lap to recite a list of wants or be allowed to write him letters. They should be taught when questioned "What did Santa bring you?" to reply that my parents, grandparents, and others gave me my gifts.
It is of the greatest importance that Christians are taught that all comes from God and all belongs to Him. We are the stewards of His gifts. To say Santa brings gifts will make God jealous for it damages His name, for He is the One who gives gifts not Santa. "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!" Matthew 7:11 WEB http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_87_24829_3/I_dont_believe_there_is_a_God_yet_I_celebrate_Christmas.html
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:03 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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raykl
Posts: 566
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oops!!!
Mea Culpa......
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:04 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:07 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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raykl
Posts: 566
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Thank you and may you receive many in return during this holiday season 
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:12 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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uncrazy
Posts: 2,382
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rayki & blondino,
If you had access to and shown anyone the information you offered here any time between 325 and 1750AD you would have been labeled a heretic, blasphemer, witch, occultist, minion of satan and your lives and those of your family would have been at risk. The powers of the state would have been used as a pawn for the actions of the churchmen who were saving our souls. A thought I recently read was the church successfully safeguarded the dark ages. We live in a time where we might be able to take tha ancient taboos and superstitions off the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 3:13 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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If you had access to and shown anyone the information you offered here any time between 325 and 1750AD you would have been labeled a heretic, blasphemer, witch, occultist, minion of satan and your lives and those of your family would have been at risk
well that would depend on where you lived .... 
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 4:43 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 18,606
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well that would depend on where you lived ....
Excellent point, and if there hadn't been places where that knowledge could be protected, the bookburners would have succeeded in suppressing the information entirely.
But I'll never pass on festivities...Merry Christmas, vesele vanoce, froehliche weinachten, feliz navidad,
S RazhdestvOm...
 
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| Dec 22, 2007 @ 6:11 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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you would have been labeled a heretic, blasphemer, witch, occultist, minion of satan and your lives and those of your family would have been at risk.
LOL, I've been labelled that in THIS day and age. 
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 2:16 AM |
Why the 25th of December?
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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Some of the greatest minds in the history of the world were heretics. But because of the heretics, people no longer believe the world is flat, that the Earth is the center of the universe, or that all of existence is only 48,000 years old.
Oh wait... we're still working on that last one.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 6:08 AM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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too many generalizations in these threads .... now lets all get outside out comfort zones/ out our boxes .... and think global .. all our actions will come back to haunt us ... 
All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
signed a citizen of the world 
NO LAND OR MAN IS AN ISLAND
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 9:11 AM |
Why the 25th of December?
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bevrice
Posts: 11,141
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Like you said, the resurrection was the important day.
December 25? How did they come to that date? I have found some theories for that, some that say it was His birthday.
We have discussed all of this before.
It doesn't matter what day he was born, it is simply a celebration that He was born and came for us. If my birthday was in Jan and I decided to celebrate it in May, which I can decide to do, it doesn't make it any less a celebration of my birth.
My birthday is the same as my great grandmother's and my nephew's. Just because it is their birthday, too, doesn't make it any less mine.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 12:26 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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duh! the pseudos must have a symbol! they would be wandering to and fro as their master if there was not a worldy symbol to focus on. selah
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 12:35 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Blondino
Posts: 4,553
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mmm what like a cross or something
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 12:44 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,085
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see how easily you would fit in. the 21st is the birth of the sun, to draw the simians into the karral the world only had to change one vowel for another, and a few days, bingo! the birth of the son! selah
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 6:28 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,181
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Jesus was born on the 14th of May in 6 BC. Therefore His 2,000 birthday was on 14 May 1995. Regardless of which date you choose for the birthday of Jesus it was not on December 25th or January 6th and God never intended that it would be observed and celebrated. God wants us to remember the death, burial and resurrection of His Son, which is the "Good News" and the purpose of His coming.
For several centuries the Christian assembly itself paid little attention to the celebration of Jesus' birth. The major Christian festival was Passover, the day of His Resurrection. Only gradually, as the church developed a calendar to commemorate the major events of the life of Jesus, did it celebrate His birth.
Because the date of Jesus' birth had been forgotten, a day had to be selected. The Eastern Orthodox and the Eastern Rite churches chose January 6 while the Western church, based in Rome, chose December 25. It is known from a notice in an ancient Roman almanac that Christmas was celebrated on December 25 in Rome in AD 336. For 300 years His birthday was not celebrated.
- just something to think about -
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 6:44 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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kjac
Posts: 8,163
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I'd like people to remember how I lived, not my death.
Just something I often think about.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 8:00 PM |
Why the 25th of December?
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,181
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I truely agree kjac. Jesus said at the last supper, "do this in rememberance of me." I don't suppose he mean't do this in rememberance of my death. I could be wrong and sometimes I am, but thought it made sense in scripture anyways.
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| Dec 23, 2007 @ 8:12 PM |
Why the 25th of December? |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,279
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jj said:
see how easily you would fit in. the 21st is the birth of the sun, to draw the simians into the karral the world only had to change one vowel for another, and a few days, bingo! the birth of the son! selah
Oh yeh, that's right -- they all spoke and spelled in English (and recorded Jesus' dictation in Red) 
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