| Feb 9 @ 12:32 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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Whether you approach your own pathway from Monotheism, Eastern Mysticism or a Atheist point of view, what then if you have not discovered the you within you.
Who is there among us that sees ourselves the same way as others do?
Don't we all need to accept as the first premise: "If you do not get it from self, where ever will you find it?
Most of the arguments herein are based on others opinions as to the validity of what you express. Institutions or textual words are not the law, judge or jury, you are but only for yourself, not others!
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| Feb 9 @ 12:49 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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hammertime
Posts: 13,747
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 Where have I heard that before? Shakespeare!!!!  or was it Francis Bacon? 
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| Feb 9 @ 12:52 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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It came off of the top of my head, but then could have many sources!
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| Feb 9 @ 1:05 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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BandTMom
Posts: 26,548
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I'm not making light of your thread, Yash, but I can't hear the words "To thine own self be true" without thinking of that episode of Gilligan's Island when the castaways made a musical of Hamlet. 
Back on topic.
I hope others see me the way I see me for I have tried to put persona aside.
Most of the arguments herein are based on others opinions as to the validity of what you express
One of the greatest things we can teach our children is "Don't worry what others think. It's what you think of you that counts.
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| Feb 9 @ 1:09 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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hammertime
Posts: 13,747
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If the top of your head is a true source than thats all that matters.
Knowing the self is like pealing an artichoke. You have to get to the center to get the the heart of the matter. Much of who we think we are, what we think and belief is not us at all but mere reflections of others. Finding your center is the key.
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| Feb 9 @ 1:11 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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BandTMom
Posts: 26,548
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Hammer.
Buddhists compare it to peeling away the layers of an onion.
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| Feb 9 @ 1:14 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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You know how Henry Emerson Foster wrote a book called 'How to be a Real Person'? Translated into it's original terms, that means 'How to be a Genuine Fake.' Because the person is the mask, the 'persona' worn by actors in Greco-Roman drama. They put a mask on their face which had a megaphone-shaped mouth which projected the sound in an open- air theater. So the 'dramatis persona' at the beginning of a play is the list of masks, and the word 'person,' which means 'mask,' has come to mean the real you. 'How to be a Real Person.' Imagine.  
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| Feb 9 @ 1:17 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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hammertime
Posts: 13,747
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But Mom, onions smell and don't have hearts. 
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| Feb 9 @ 1:18 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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Knowing the self is like pealing an artichoke. You have to get to the center to get the the heart of the matter. Much of who we think we are, what we think and belief is not us at all but mere reflections of others. Finding your center is the key. H are your sure you are not a Zen Taoist, Buddhist that was very Confucian like! I'm impressed. 
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| Feb 9 @ 1:19 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 14,775
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Yep...the onion analogy is perfect. One of the things I've learned along the way is that self-knowledge comes with maturity, which isn't a product of age as much as experience. As much as we meditate and explore our inner selves, we still only see who we think we are. It's only when we're put to the test and find out what choices we make that we find out who we really are...everything gets stripped away, or more accuirately (at least what I've found) burned away. Life ain't always easy, and choices can be extremely painful.
[Edited on 2/9/2008 1:21 PM]
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| Feb 9 @ 1:20 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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BandTMom
Posts: 26,548
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But when you peel away all the layers of an onion, what do you have?
Usually nothing. 
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| Feb 9 @ 1:22 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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Life is like sailing, if you do not tack when it is advisable to do so   you may end up in waters that may sink you!
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| Feb 9 @ 1:23 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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hammertime
Posts: 13,747
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Yash, I spent a lot of years exploring. I do understand the metaphors. I don't remember everything and I do need to review my old knowledge which I plan to do as I age. I also happen to like artichoke hearts in my salad.
But to respond more directly. In epistemology, the study of knowledge, we need to have a process by which we acquire knowledge by transforming belief. We need to keep asking ourselves why we believe what we believe. How do we know what knowledge is? How do we test it. We need to be aware of the process. Mindfulness. The Greeks were rationalists, logicians and thinkers but much overlapped with Eastern Taoism/Buddhist concepts.
You will see scripture attacking this sort of thing which explains much of the problem we have today.
Also in Islam. There was a time when Baghdad was the intellectual center of the world around 800-1100AD. All types of people, Christians, Jews, doubters(atheists) etc were all there exchanging ideas. Engineering, biology, medicine, mathematics.
We got Arabic numerals.
Algorithm is an Arabic word.
Algebra is an Arabic word.
Two thirds of all stars are Arabic named.
Imam Hamid al-Ghazali (1058-1111) changed everything for the worst. Mathematics is the work of the devil and so was philosophy. Much of this Imam influenced Christian thinking which helped bring the world into the Dark Ages.
[Edited on 2/9/2008 1:29 PM]
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| Feb 9 @ 1:29 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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yashaenka
Posts: 3,995
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Yes the Greek Taoist Heraclitus the father of Western physics was such a man.
Western peoples use linear thinking, Eastern peoples used to be holistic thinkers, now we have both approaches commonly used regardless of location.
And 70% of the inventions used in the industrial revolution came to the west courtesy of China...
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| Feb 9 @ 2:20 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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madamegeek
Posts: 1,345
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".....or was it Francis Bacon? " - hammertime
Worthy thought echoed by another porcine philosopher:
"Uh Th...th..th..th..th...th That's All Folks!!" --Porky Pig
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| Feb 9 @ 2:27 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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madamegeek
Posts: 1,345
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BandtMom - "But when you peel away all the layers of an onion, what do you have? Usually nothing."
Hammertime - "But Mom, onions smell and don't have hearts."
No heart..but possibly "heart" burn
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| Feb 9 @ 2:53 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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Angel54214
Posts: 13,228
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Onions were well grown and used in ancient Egypt.
In Egypt, onions were actually an object of worship. The onion symbolized eternity to the Egyptians who buried onions along with their Pharaohs. The Egyptians saw eternal life in the anatomy of the onion because of its circle-within-a-circle structure. Paintings of onions appear on the inner walls of the pyramids and in the tombs of both the Old Kingdom and the New Kingdom. The onion is mentioned as a funeral offering and onions are depicted on the banquet tables of the great feasts - both large, peeled onions and slender, immature ones. They were shown upon the altars of the gods.
Frequently, a priest is pictured holding onions in his hand or covering an altar with a bundle of their leaves or roots. In mummies, onions have frequently been found in the pelvic regions of the body, in the thorax, flattened against the ears and in front of the collapsed eyes. Flowering onions have been found on the chest, and onions have been found attached to the soles of the feet and along the legs. King Ramses IV, who died in 1160 B.C., was entombed with onions in his eye sockets. Some Egyptologists theorize that onions may have been used because it was believed that their strong scent and/or magical powers would prompt the dead to breathe again. Other Egyptologists believe it was because onions were known for their strong antiseptic qualities, which construed as magical, would be handy in the afterlife.
Onions are mentioned to have been eaten by the Israelites in the Bible. In Numbers 11:5, the children of Israel lament the meager desert diet enforced by the Exodus: "We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely, the cucumbers and the melons and the leeks and the onions and the garlic."
We can read more here...
http://www.onions-usa.org/about/history.asp
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| Feb 9 @ 3:06 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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BandTMom
Posts: 26,548
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I just had an onion and mushroom pizza.
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| Feb 9 @ 8:24 PM |
To thy own self be true!
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Angel54214
Posts: 13,228
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Now see what you did mom...I been craving pizza with onion all day, and just have make one now for dinner. Pass the chili peppers please...
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| Feb 9 @ 8:34 PM |
To thy own self be true! |
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BandTMom
Posts: 26,548
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Always glad to be of service.
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