| Mar 11 @ 9:14 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
Nothing is as it appears. That is because we are programmed by conceptual concepts by parents and the society that surrounds us.
Martin - the first impression I took away from that article at the first reading is in the Western World we have no grasp of how complex the interactions of differing Buddhist sects are. It is as complex if not more so than monotheism is. Here in the west people in general think Buddhism is one homogeneous whole. There is one thing I know for sure Buddhism requires more work than monotheism does to grasp it. I like to think of Buddhism as advance calculus and monotheism as simple addition divided by an integer.
Or to put it another way. "Buddhism is as complex as you wish or want it to be." As a Zen Taoist who has lived and studied Zen Buddhism and the Buddhism interpretations put forward by various sects I treat Buddhism like I do monotheism. I simply try to find the common points, rather than the differences.
I think you are right about words or western terms for words, they simply do not provide the correct context as the original terms. I think some scholarly interpretations do us an injustice as lay people because they tend not to talk past us, but over and beyond us.
Suffice it to say what ever another puts forth, you can never really ever grasp their true intent unless you can put your mind, where theirs is. I copied your two post to read them later for better digestion.
've always thought that buddhism is the most widely misunderstood understood belief system going. By that I mean that nearly everyone has some kind of visceral understanding of what buddhism is "about:" "It's about that thar' Enlightenment, right?" They may not be able to point to the essence if Islam, Hinduism, or even Christianity, but everybody knows "enlightenment" is the goal of Buddhism. That's wrong, of course: enlightenment isn't the goal of Buddhism. But at least everyone thinks they know what it it's all about.  I am not laughing at you, but with you as many moons ago I thought that way myself.
|
|
  |
|
| Mar 11 @ 9:25 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
An instant of consciousness is teeming with hundreds of “events” and interactions, all of which we can directly perceive. This includes anything that comes through the five sense doors or through the mind door. It also includes “rupa” or physical matter, but that is a separate and somewhat more complicated issue so I’ve left it alone. I agree with this. In a less complex why lets just say "a thought" forms a picture. To form a picture, we see the picture, but it takes practice to see all that strands that form a picture. Conscious mind views the picture at one level while Intuitive mind sees it through a different prism entirely.
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 9:39 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
Buddhism, Taoism and Zen
In one sense Buddhism and Taoism are completely separate and arose independently of each other in India and China, respectively. Though they are historically and culturally different they both come to the same point at their depth. In the truest sense of the word neither of these are religions, they are an attempt to answer existentially fundamental questions about the human condition. There is no god, dogma, creed or faith to any of these philosophies. Buddhism is called the religion of self-awakening, meaning that in is incumbent upon the individual to come to their own awakening through their own efforts. There is no savior or god to help one here.
There are many sects of Buddhism that vary greatly from one another. Many of the more popular sects are more like what we think of as religion. They worship the historical Buddha as godlike and pray to him for help but this is not at all what the historical Buddha taught. A Taoist Zen does not do this at all and some argue that Zen is the closest to the original teachings. There are many very structure schools of Buddhism but it is really the individual's effort and not the ritual or chanting that brings one to awakening.
At their core Zen and Taoism could be said to be identical but in their practice are vastly different. Lao Tzu envisioned his writings to guide the rulers to become ‘emperor sages' that they would rule in harmony with nature and man. Chuang Tzu is much deeper than Lao and in his writings tries to explain the relativity of things, man in particular, and the interpenetration of things. There are no real formal schools of Taoism and it's articulations today go from to harmonious to bizarre. There is a thread that some Taoists follow to be ‘all natural' and anything synthetic or man made is wrong. Some of these folks feel that passing gas, belching and all other ‘natural' forms of being human should never be controlled but expressed fully. It's an odd interpretation to me. One teacher actually said to me “We Taoists piss in the yard”.
The problem with the anti-societal thinking is that society is natural. Insects, elephants, wolves and chimps have social structures and behavior they adhere to so it is consistent with nature for man to do the same. Taoism, as taught today, is also caught up in magic and alchemy. There are little of the real teachings of either Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu in it. It is very difficult to ‘follow' Taoism for this reason.
As you should know from your readings in Buddhism the object is to ‘see things as they are' and to overcome the dualistic distinctions of the mind. The idea of the interpenetrations of all things, sunyatta and prajnaparamita are all consistant with the interpenetration and the yin-yang of Taoism if understood in its deepest sense. When it is only understood in a relative sense you will have problems. So this self discovery or better said, self obliteration/reconstruction works perfectly in Buddhism with Taoism when viewed by Chuang Tzu's “heaven, self and I arise simultaneously”.
If you were to come to a true and thorough going realization of reality outside the norms of your society and history you would have to create a language that describes what you have realized. In the case of Chuang Tzu he did so and it clearly describes the proclamations of many of the Zen masters over the century. So from this standpoint I say that they are ultimately speaking of the same things though every day practice may be the farthest thing from this.
Again, in Taoism, the object is to overcome the self and become harmonious with Nature. This overcoming of the ego could be said to be the same as overcoming the self in Buddhism and ‘seeing things as they are'.
As far as which one has the upper hand, I guess it's dependent on who is arm wrestling whom. To me Taoist Zen is the Tool to which one can walk the walk of a Taoists or a Buddhist living philosophy.
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 10:01 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
Martin666
Posts: 2,142
|
"To form a picture, we see the picture, but it takes practice to see all that strands that form a picture. Conscious mind views the picture at one level while Intuitive mind sees it through a different prism entirely."...Yash
Yes, same picture, two different approaches to viewing it. If we do a slight bit of renaming, we come up with another interesting aspect of buddhist practice: instead of "conscious mind" substitute "rational, analytic mind." Now the two aspects mirror the two types of meditation the buddha said was essential for liberation, vipasanna (which is rational and analytic) and samatha/jhana (which is intuitive and "whole grasping," creative). We also manage to mirror the left and right side of the brain.
So the left-brain dominant buddhist says: "hey, intuit the entire structure as a whole and forget the details,they aren't important" and the right-brain buddhist says " forget the intuited whole, what's important here are the individual components of the picture and how they work together to create the whole."
The three major branches of buddhism all have both componants as part of their base teachings, including abhidhamma, which is the exposition of "right"-mindedness (that's a pun :)............The buddha taught that both are necessary, that incorporating both was an important aspect of "the middle way."
In actual practice, different schools tend to emphasize different approaches...
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 10:18 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
In actual practice, different schools tend to emphasize different approaches... Of course they do because the same picture can be formed in mind, by completely differing threads. It is not how you get there, it is that you get there.
Every moment we arise at the center of our experience. Because of our propensity to attach to ourselves, it is common for us to consider our situation in terms of our self-interest and self-concern. Buddhist teaching is a guide to finding peace in our lives; not a method of obtaining personal satisfaction. All Buddhism teaches that our underlying nature is empty; that our true self is selfless. We must be willing to move beyond our self-interest if we hope to realize the peace Buddhism claims is our birthright.
To me a sect is a pathway and one should not become attached to a pathway, for it may not contain that which you can embrace as the right way for you.
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 10:44 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
Martin666
Posts: 2,142
|
"There is one thing I know for sure Buddhism requires more work than monotheism does to grasp it."
Yes, buddhism does require a lot of work, because what the practitioner is doing is deconstructing their reality, their citta, and then reconstructing it into a more useful form based on different criteria. By inclination of birth, we are structured to misperceive reality a certain way, a way that only leads to suffering. This is the citta that we inherit via kamma. We're tightly locked in a matrix of these misunderstandings, in what the buddha called "this mass of suffering." To purify our citta requires great effort, focus, and practice.
A great part of that effort revolves around developing the skills at "seeing the individual strands of the picture." I remember when I was in the 8th grade I got my first set of eyeglasses, after having probably needed them for some years. I was shocked when I first looked out the window at a tree across the road: trees are not just round green blobs, they have individual leaves!!
Abhidhamma deconstructs the tree and shows the leaves. Or, to put it another way, the "green blob" is the intuited, wholistic, creative "left-brain image" and the individual leaves are the rational, analytical right-brain components of that image---the details.. The list of seventy some constituents of an instant of citta (consciousness) is a list (partial) of the seventy some leaves on that particular tree (citta).
In both the west and the east, lay practictioners are in love with the left-brain image of the tree of "buddhism." It's a soft and cuddly image that makes them feel good. That imagealso allows them to hang all kinds of ornaments on the boughs, because to the left-brain it's not necessary to be rational or analytical to create an expression: mysticism, supernatural events, ghosts and demons, intercessory prayer, belief in an eternal soul, etc, all end up having as much validity as anything else. So you get some pretty weird juxtapositions of belief: "Buddhism is rational and based on direct experience BUT there are invisible spirits around that protect you and you can pray to buddha to get what you want."
What many western practitioners don't like to do is apply the rational/analytic portion of their brain to the definition, because that requires--frankly--too much work and in the process gores to many cherished misperceptions..
Both "sides" need to be merged to find the Middle Way
[Edited on 3/11/2008 10:52 AM]
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 10:57 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
For some reason the thought that Women being more intuitive makes it easier for them to grasp the ideas put forth then men. I have seen a lot of Western and Asian men bawl like a baby during Zazen sessions where women instead laugh, sob a little than laugh some more.
I like to think of monotheism as a feel good Religion(s) where no real effort is required because it is so easy to be forgiven and they do not really address the here and now. But Eastern mysticism is or can be really hard and painful as one dissolves all concepts of truth as they know them.
[Edited on 3/11/2008 11:31 AM]
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 11 @ 7:40 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
Commercial break:
March 11
Compassion is the best protection; it is also, as the great masters of the past have always known, the source of all healing. Suppose you have a disease such as cancer or AIDS. By taking on the sickness of those suffering like you, in addition to your own pain, with a mind full of compassion, you will—beyond any doubt—purify the past negative karma that is the cause, now and in the future, of the continuation of your suffering.
In Tibet there have been many extraordinary cases of people who, when they heard they were dying of a terminal illness, gave away everything they had and went to the cemetery to die. There they practiced taking on the suffering of others; and what is amazing is that instead of dying, they returned home, fully healed.
Funny, I've been talking a lot about compassion lately.
Carry on.
|
| |
|
| Mar 12 @ 10:14 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
Martin666
Posts: 2,142
|
"As you should know from your readings in Buddhism the object is to ‘see things as they are' and to overcome the dualistic distinctions of the mind."...Yash
For your consideration and comment....
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/bodhi/dhamma_and_nonduality.php
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 12 @ 11:23 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
Where I think the teaching of the Buddha, as preserved in the Theravada tradition, surpasses all other attempts to resolve the spiritual dilemmas of humanity is in its persistent refusal to sacrifice actuality for unity. The Buddha's Dhamma does not point us towards an all-embracing absolute in which the tensions of daily existence dissolve in metaphysical oneness or inscrutable emptiness. It points us, rather, towards actuality as the final sphere of comprehension, towards things as they really are (yathabhuta). Above all, it points us towards the Four Noble Truths of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the way to its cessation as the liberating proclamation of things as they really are. These four truths, the Buddha declares, are noble truths, and what makes them noble truths is precisely that they are actual, undeviating, invariable (tatha, avitatha, anannatha). It is the failure to face the actuality of these truths that has caused us to wander for so long through the long course of samsara. It is by penetrating these truths exactly as they are that one can reach the true consummation of the spiritual quest: making an end to suffering.
I hold the truths above to be self evident and not in discord with a Zen Taoist view that It points us, rather, towards actuality as the final sphere of comprehension, towards things as they really are (yathabhuta). Yash
|
| |
|
| Mar 12 @ 9:05 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
March 12
Although the results of our actions may not have matured yet, they will inevitably ripen, given the right conditions. Usually we forget what we do, and it is only long afterward that the results catch up with us. By then we are unable to connect them with their causes. “Imagine an eagle,” says Jikmé Lingpa.” It is flying, high in the sky. It casts no shadow. Nothing shows that it is there. Then suddenly it spies its prey, dives, and swoops to the ground. And as it drops, its menacing shadow appears.”
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 13 @ 9:52 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
Both "sides" need to be merged to find the Middle Way If you stand a coin on edge does any head or tail really exist. I understand the term merge "to become one thing" rather than two or more.
This raises the question, can two or more things really merge without changing one or more of them to form something other?
|
| |
|
| Mar 13 @ 9:58 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
If a bird or flock of them fly over a body of water, where their reflection appears, which is the real them? For the instant they are seen in the water how do we know their form is not reflected in the sea of air?
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 13 @ 6:06 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
Glimpse of the Day for:
March 13
The preliminary training of meditation practice and purification ripens and opens the student’s heart and mind to the direct understanding of the truth.
Then, in the powerful moment of introduction, the master can direct his realization of the nature of mind—what we call the master’s “wisdom mind”—into the mind of the now authentically receptive student.
The master is doing nothing less than introducing the student to what the Buddha actually is, awakening the student to the living presence of enlightenment within. In that experience, the Buddha, the nature of mind, and the master’s wisdom mind are all fused into, and revealed as, one. The student then recognizes, in a blaze of gratitude, beyond any shadow of doubt, that there is not, has never been, and could not ever be any separation: between student and master, between the master’s wisdom mind and the nature of the student’s mind.
Is anyone reading these? 
|
| |
|
| Mar 13 @ 9:14 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
12knots
Posts: 6,400
|
Always
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 13 @ 9:18 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
Thank you. 
|
| |
|
| Mar 14 @ 9:27 AM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
|
Yes, Si, Da, ....there are a lot of readers, but few posters....I think in this country Buddhism is not understood and the societal programming most Americans went through makes Buddhism very mystical, when in reality it is not.
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 14 @ 5:11 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
I guess the reason I asked was I was hoping one of the Glimpse of the Day might start some discussion, but posting words of wisdom from the Masters is never a waste of time.
|
| |
|
| Mar 14 @ 5:14 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning
|
|
BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
|
 March 14The nature of everything is illusory and ephemeral,
Those with dualistic perception regard suffering as happiness,
Like they who lick the honey from a razor’s edge.
How pitiful are they who cling strongly to concrete reality:
Turn your attention within, my heart friends.NYOSHUL KHEN RINPOCHE
|
|
| |
|
| Mar 14 @ 6:42 PM |
Buddhism - A New Beginning |
|
12knots
Posts: 6,400
|
Many people do read these posts. But donty reply because there isnt much to disagree with really.
The nature of everything is illusory and ephemeral
This is very poignant for my practice at this moment. We often forget everything is illusory and ephemeral when looking into the deepest nature of the world and ourselves.
I have been blessed with introduction to the tantric practices where this is most relevant in dream yogas.
By the way if anyone is interested the practices of astral travel, walking on water, etc are and have never been written about before in Buddhism openly because these were classed in the Secret Doctrines. (Dzogchen) and also because of the "attachment" we shouldnt give too much reverance to them. However when used to increase your practice it is another thing.
Surprisingly HH Dalai Lama has written about the techniques! Surprise surprise. Also the Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche.
I am sure when this gets about, this is going to open a newer dimension towards Buddhism.
|
| |
|
|
|
|