| Apr 12 @ 6:15 PM |
On Men and God ll
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Ishmael was blessed yet Only because Abraham prayed to God. The price of Abraham and Sarah not waiting and trusting is still being paid in lives. Ishmael wasn't meant to be. Just Like man wasn't meant to fall, And Cain wasn't meant to kill Able. All were bad choices of men. God Knows how to teach us Lessons
with The wrong turns in our lives as well. Everything in the Bible isn't a lesson of how to do things. Sometimes the lesson is in How not to.
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| Apr 12 @ 6:25 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Ishmael was blessed yet Only because Abraham prayed to God.
Now Hunt, you didn't read the chapter; especially the first 4 verses. God came to Abraham and spoke. Abraham did not pray to God:
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying ,
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| Apr 12 @ 6:30 PM |
On Men and God ll
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her.
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Now look at who ishmaels decendents turned out to be.
Gen 15
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
[Edited on 4/12/2008 6:34 PM]
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| Apr 12 @ 6:31 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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I missed this one...
Cain wasn't born in Eden angel
Hunt read the scriptures I quoted again please. Cain dwelled in Nod which was east of Eden.
The Garden was not named; it was also eastward in Eden as well:
Gen. 2:
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
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| Apr 12 @ 6:38 PM |
On Men and God ll
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Cain was born after they were removed from the garden. Able as well.
Adam and eve were together. her desire was given to adam. She had eaten the forbidden fruit. I am saying they were both removed from the Garden and forbidden access to the tree of life. As far as Eden that is another posibility. The garden was east of Eden.
please read again my uper post it has been edited rather then post two on top of each other.
Cain wasnt born in the GARDEN. as to eden i dont know.
[Edited on 4/12/2008 6:48 PM]
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| Apr 12 @ 6:43 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,539
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Sometimes what the churchmen told us isn't exactly what was written.
hunt, you are trying to discount God's promise to Abraham regarding Ishmeal because he prayed so your version about the conflicts between Christianity and Islam is real.
Islam didn't appear for 600 years after Jesus, tribal enmity existed, but Isaac and Ishmeal were never reported in conflict. They together buried their father.
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| Apr 12 @ 6:55 PM |
On Men and God ll
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Uncrazy When the children of Israel came out of captivity They had 600 thousand
fighting men it had been over 400 years of captivity plus 40 years in the wilderness plus the years of Jacobs life. before The story of Joseph The children of israel warred against the Canaanites and amorites and Hittite's who were descendants of Abraham. If Abraham had Waited God would have given him Isaac without Ishmael
and Islam would not have been born in opposition to Judo Christianity.
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| Apr 12 @ 6:57 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Seems like to me everything happens for a purpose.
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| Apr 12 @ 7:02 PM |
On Men and God ll
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Now look at who ishmaels decendents turned out to be. 19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Hunt, these tribes were not the descendants of Ishmael:
Gen. 25:
13 And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,
14 And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa,
15 Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:
16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
18 And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren. All of Ishmael's sons (12), were the descendants of Arabia country.
adding...
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; These were strangers, not his relatives of Ishmael. Abraham and Ishmael came from the lineage of Seth. These tribes in verses 19-21 came from the lineage of Cain.
[Edited on 4/12/2008 7:16 PM]
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| Apr 12 @ 7:03 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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But "Allah" is the exact same God that Jews and Christians follow... 
(Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians):
Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship
none but Allah, and that we associate no partners with Him,
and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allah.
Then, if they turn away,say: "Bear witness that we are Muslims.") Holy Quran 3:64
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| Apr 12 @ 7:12 PM |
On Men and God ll
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Jews, Christians, And Muslims all descend from Abraham. That's a hard truth for some to swallow
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| Apr 12 @ 7:15 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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It's the biggest and longest sibling rivalry ever recorded in history.
Peace
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| Apr 12 @ 7:32 PM |
On Men and God ll
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Angel you are better at researching then I so I wont call you wrong on who these were since I dont have time to Go back and reserch this further but wilol with Time. I can be wrong as well.
yet ask why these tribes are listed in this paregraph talking of abrahams decendents.
Even without these tribes The children of Isreal have been at odds with islam
since its begining. Christianity and Islam are truly at odds one lifts man up and the other God.
The fact remains if Ishmael hadnt been born These enemies would not exist.
Wish I had time for more tonight but have to work. Goodnight my Angel Freind! 
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| Apr 12 @ 7:39 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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So God made a mistake by allowing Ishmael to be conceived and then to live?
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| Apr 12 @ 7:39 PM |
On Men and God ll
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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These came even from older work called the Wisdom of Ptah-hotep from 2000 years before Solomon. The hebrew scribes just attributed it to Solomon.
Uncrazy, I see no connection to Ptah-hotep's writing with Solomon. Here is the whole writing:
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/texts/precepts_of_ptahhotep.htm
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| Apr 12 @ 7:42 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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No God didn't make a mistake. Man Did. In this case Abraham.
Cause and effect bmom. We have brought our grief upon ourselves by stepping outside Gods will. He doesn't make bad things happen. He doesn't stop them all the time either. We pray and ask him to.
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| Apr 12 @ 7:43 PM |
On Men and God ll
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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yet ask why these tribes are listed in this paregraph talking of abrahams decendents.
Because God gave the land of Canaan ot Abraham's desendants (his seed). Abraham's desendants were the strangers to this land and occupants:
13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
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| Apr 12 @ 7:47 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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So the correct, godly thing to have done would have been to abort Ishmael to prevent Islam from developing hundreds or thousands of years later.  Interesting.
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| Apr 12 @ 7:48 PM |
On Men and God ll
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Sounds like it to me, Sunny.
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| Apr 12 @ 7:51 PM |
On Men and God ll |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Sunny,
Either that or maybe Hunt is considering sending back a "Terminator".
Think Arnold is available?
Peace
[Edited on 4/12/2008 8:12 PM]
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