| Mar 22 @ 11:03 AM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,565
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Something I've seen--in my personal life, from people I've encountered online, and in a study of history--is that a common meme among some Christians states that, given they have professed that Jesus is the Messiah, they are unconditionally "saved." From that moment on, any sin they commit is forgiven, and therefore, there is no need to change their behavior from before they were saved.
I'd really like to find out why this occurs.
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| Mar 22 @ 11:20 AM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I see a lot of this too. Why it occurs is because of repression. Religion does nothing but repress and oppress so they have conjured up loopholes in their dogma because apparently sexual urges are far more stronger than their faith in delusions....I would think they may think that too. In any case, whether they choose to act out or continue their repression their sexuality is dysfunctional and a mentally unhealthy perversion of what should be normal and natural to grow bonds with another human being. These are not people who own a full deck to begin with so its no surprise...
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| Mar 22 @ 11:52 AM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Actually it's the theory of "once saved, always saved". many Christians believe that once you receive salvation, it can never be taken away no matter what you do.
Now a big part of those who believe this say "Jesus takes away the 'want to' so in theory they will be living better lives.
And there are those who just use this as a license to do what they want. Sadly I saw this in one teen-age boy who heard this....and it was my fault.  It still bothers me at times and it was twenty years ago.
But then you have the Christians that believe in working their way to Heaven.
Please note, I did not say ALL or EVERY Christian.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:09 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Where is JJ on this????
Jesus forgave and then said to sin no more.....Why is that last part being ignored?
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| Mar 22 @ 12:13 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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But through repenting your sins you are forgiven, so once saved, always saved. Or simply go to confession do 4 hail Mary's and all is well.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:15 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,280
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From that moment on, any sin they commit is forgiven, and therefore, there is no need to change their behavior from before they were saved.
You are wrong, and you are right.
As a Christian, my sins are forgiven.
When I became a Christian, my life changed. My behavior changed. I looked through eyes that have changed. The world around me, the people around me.
I saw all the wonderful things that God has gave me instead at all the bad things that have happened.
I do know there are bad things happening all the time, but I also try to see the good things too.
I have been blessed with a childhood that I can look back and smile upon, and children I have been given.
The world is a different place for me now.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:17 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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SweetNapaGuy, although I think you are partially correct in your assumption, I believe there are 2 other factors to be accounted for in the equation.
While a Saved person cannot lose their eternal security, (of salvation); such a person does not have a license to sin. Such a belief is incorrect.
The Saved person cannot lose their salvation, (so they have avoided eternal punishment). But when such a person is disobedient to the will of the Father, they will still be disciplined. (As any loving human father will discipline a disobedient child.)
In the most cases of wilful disobedience by a Believer, the Father will discipline His child with what amounts to no more than a slap on the wrist.
(Perhaps this person will experience some form of disappointment.)
In more dramatic cases, (like murder or theft); the Father might choose to take away their personal liberties for an extended period of time.
(Or any number of other major cases of personal loss.)
Or in some case, an even more severe form of discipline is involved.
While the Saved person likely will retain their life here on earth; do not be deceived. They are still subject to His discipline.
What loving human father would allow their child to do something wrong; without administering any sort of discipline meant to guide that child to mend their ways?
Isn`t most guidance motivated by love?
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| Mar 22 @ 12:25 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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In more dramatic cases, (like murder or theft); the Father might choose to take away their personal liberties for an extended period of time. Unless the Father tells you himself to carry out the act but you will be arrested for murder in which case you can plead insanity at the trial since hearing voices is insanity.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:31 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Since hearing voices is a sign of schizophrenia we know that all sin is a man made invention kind of like laws and rules. All defined sins are made up by clergy types, prophets and religious writers who pretend they have a direct phone to a deity. This is pure insanity and only the gullible will believe them.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:32 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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If sins are covered with the blood of Jesus and Gos cannot see them (as I was taught in my Southern Baptist upbringing), then how could God chastise his "child" if he can't even see the sins?
That's like a father coming home and givingg his child a spanking just because he knows the child did something to deserve it.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:34 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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SweetNapaGuy
Posts: 4,565
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Please note, I phrased my lament as being "common" among Christians. Not "universal." I do believe that there are some, within the framework of an organized religion, that do become motivated to be better people.
My lament has to do with those people who "convert" by word, but not by deed. Whose actions after being "saved" show no discernable difference from their actions before.
It needn't be something as radical as committing murder. It could be that the person in question simply was a self-centered jerk before "converting," and remains a self-centered jerk after "converting." The "convert" shows no sign of the effect being "saved" has on their life.
It strikes me as someone committing the heresy of "Pascal's Wager": attempting to "fool" their savior and trick their way into Heaven. Kind of clashes with that whole "omniscient" property of the Judeo-Christian god, doesn't it?
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| Mar 22 @ 12:34 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The blood of Jesus????
>>click<<
So god can't see through blood?
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| Mar 22 @ 12:37 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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So god can't see through blood?
That's the way I was taught, Hammer. God cannot se a Christian's sins because they are covered with the blood of Jesus.
And Napa, I know what you are talking about having lived both sides of the coin.
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| Mar 22 @ 12:40 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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SNG
They are self centered even more from the brainwashing they receive. Notice by shear numbers how many Christians condemn all others not of their faith and even those within their faith but of different denominations. Born Again and Fundamentalist Christians are the least mentally developed because they lack a mental and physical discipine that empowers the mind and body connection. What they do is simply feed an attitude and build opinions based on prescribed dogma i.e. brainwashing and indoctrination....
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| Mar 22 @ 12:43 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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BTM,  that expression, (``covered by the blood of Jesus``), I believe refers to the fact that the sin is forgiven due to that person`s acceptance of the Sovereignty of Jesus Christ.
So in effect, salvation is akin to taking the threat of eternal punishment off the table.
The sinning person will still receive some form of punishment. But the death penalty can never be applied to them. (A little like how some of your States no longer practice capital punishment.)
Added...Changed the spelling of threat from theat.
[Edited on 3/22/2008 2:27 PM]
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| Mar 22 @ 12:47 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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I'm just stating the way I was taught. 
I was taught that God cannot stand or even view sin. That's why he "forsook" Jesus on the cross and that's why he doesn't see the sins of Christians today. Any Southern Baptist Church you my go to will teach this.
Of course this no way reflects how I see things today. 
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| Mar 22 @ 1:02 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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It is written that while on the cross, Jesus--the Son of God, lamented "My God, my God, why hast thou forsken me", in order to illustrate the complete isolation Jesus felt at that time.
Throughout the existence of Jesus Christ He had experienced the intimacy of His Father at all times.
But then, while on the cross, God-the Father placed all the sins of humankind--past, present + future, onto Jesus Christ. It was in that moment that the full weight of the price paid by Christ became known + experienced by Him.
It was in that moment when Jesus Christ experienced separation from His heavenly Father for the first + only time.
I think it's fair to say that He was troubled.
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| Mar 22 @ 1:13 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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And it illustrates Jesus was not god or a third person in a trinity. Its also fair to say "it is written" was written by non-eyewitnesses but by unknown authors at least a half a century later.
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| Mar 22 @ 1:50 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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SOC,
You don't make sense.
Based on how you explain it, Jesus was sacrificed to create a special club that if you decide to join, god will close his eyes to the sins you have committed. Not only sins you committed prior to membership but also sins after that point.
You and your christian friends have said in posts that god does not hate the person, he hates the sin. So in effect Jesus' sacrifice did not save people at all. The kingdom will be the same as this earth with both sinners and nonsinners. The only difference is that the kingdom will contain only those that accepted Jesus.
So what did Jesus do? He established a club of people to feed your god's ego. Your god is just like any other dictator you find in history. Either accept the dictator or pay for it!
It has nothing to do with being a righteous, upstanding person. Just snap your heels and chant "HEIL JESUS!"
Peace
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| Mar 22 @ 2:23 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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That's an interesting take on it sail. But yes...I think perhaps the outline of your post is correct. Heaven will resemble something like a Club: all those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord + Master will live there for all of eternity.
(I think that maybe these Christians will also have to have repented of their sins.
But I confess, I'm not altogether clear on this point.)
But yes.  I think you truly understand sail. 
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