| Mar 22, 2008 @ 2:28 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,822
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SOC:
The Saved person cannot lose their salvation, (so they have avoided eternal punishment).
Ok, I am so happy that you believe this.
Haban and I just had at least an hour discussion about this, and I still stand firm on my belief that this isn't really true.
Haban believes the way you do. I on the other hand believe you have the choice to walk away from this and continue on a sinful path and will not go to heaven.( after being saved)
I have been questioning myself, ( thank you Haban for listening) why I can't believe this.
I might have come to at least a half way point why now.
All of us have what I call a "beast" in us. The evil, or bad part of us.
Maybe, just maybe I have a very bad one and that is why God has decided I need to think that if I don't keep on the right path, the less curvy road, I will sin badly.
Does that make sense SOC?
I need to think that I can lose it all.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 2:37 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,922
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And sail, God closes His eyes to nothing.
But for the Saved person, all of their sins have been covered with the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ. This is exactly what we have been given advanced warning of before the death of our mortal body.
So all who have heard about Jesus, and the salvation provided by His sacrificial death on the cross, have the opportunity to join the club, (as you have put it,)
I am not certain of the eventual fate of those who have never heard about Jesus. But the few of you who so passionately bad-mouth Jesus are without excuse. 
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 2:49 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,343
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SOC, what about the ones who don't bad mouth Jesus, and who actually deeply respect the ethics he taught, but do not believe for a New York second that he was actually the only--begotten son of our creator who died to buy our salvation with his innocent blood, allowing the world to go on its sorry-assed way, bemoaning all the sinners and doing nothing to relieve the misery around us, saying that it's God's will?
"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? | When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? | Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? | And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" |
"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink |
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
Naked, and ye clothed me not:
Sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not." |
"Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? | Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 2:53 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,991
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Peter understood it best and from his chapter 4 scriptures, we can understand the difference. The House of God will be judged and will be judged first...
1Peter 4:
1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
6 For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:05 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,343
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Angel, I'm not sure if your post was in response to mine, but maybe this belongs in the biblical contradiction thread too. I believe my clip from Matthew was a direct quote of what Jesus said, while the one from Peter is his interpretation (and I'm not sure it's actually about the same thing - Peter's appears to be about the impending martyrdom for christians that he's anticipating, not about eternal judgment, if there really is such a thing).
Is there a direct quote of Jesus that states that the acceptance of his sacrifice is all that's necessary to assure enternal salvation, and if so, why does he say otherwise in the clip from Matthew?
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:13 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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Angel54214
Posts: 18,991
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Angel, I'm not sure if your post was in response to mine, but maybe this belongs in the biblical contradiction thread too.
No Heaven it wasn't...it fell after your post by sequence of post time 
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:16 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Its so fun to watch how after life death cult discussions go. Such heated debate over a fantasy belief about where you go after you're dead. I've gone to the cemetery lots of times and so far no dead person has stood up to say how good or bad it is. I guess it just might really be so good they keep it a secret.
So sad that folks like some of you have such a fear of death or no fear because you have a brainwashed fantasy. Either way the basis of such sick faith is fear, ignorance, and fantasy.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:20 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 7,922
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Katt, thank you for writing those kind things in your last post. 
Did Haban refer you to John 10:28? "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my Father's Hand." The reason for the word "snatch" being chosen there, (or its equivalent in the original language, rather than the more simple word "take"); is because in the meaning of the word "snatch", it is implied that a simple, honourable transfer of ownership was not involved. Rather, a more devious, not-altogether honourable transfer of possession was involved.
This means that if a person already possesses eternal life, not even a nefarious/ shady attempt to "pluck" that person out of the Father's Hand will succeed.
John 10:29--"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."
Katt, God doesn't want you living your life in fear. After you have received eternal life, He wants you to experience true peace.
It is out of your great gratitude for the wonderful gift He has given you, that you will, hopefully, be so grateful, that you will desire to do everything in your capacity to please Him!
He is your Daddy! And His love for you is so dynamic...so complete...so abundant. And He is so forgiving also.
For me, my obedience is almost a certainty. I regret my response once upon a time to hammertime. I was almost flip, something-like-sarcastic.
My words were made with the understanding that God would never tell us to do anything that was not abundantly good.
It is not in His nature to promote evil.
That is why I stated that I would do anything He asked.
Would a loving mother feed her baby some choice dog pooh? Or would such a mother ask her young child to brutally injure anyone who has caused her grief?
No. Of course not. (Not if the love were an authentic love.)
And I don't believe that our loving Heavenly Father would guide any of us along such a route either. 
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:24 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,343
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Thanks! Again, I'm not a christian but I don't think there's anything that Jesus said as far as how to live one's life that I don't agree with and try to emulate. I'm not at all sure that our current existence isn't just a metamorphic stage, and we die/change to go on to another one, but I truly can't believe in an eternal punishment and an eternal reward at all - it's counter to everything that creation seems to be about, at least from my perception. It would signify an end, not a change or new beginning. Having everything end at death makes more sense than that.
However, if there really WERE an eternal reward and an eternal punishment, I think it would be a pretty meaningless existence if our ONLY reason to exist was to sing the praises of our creator, and if what we actually do with our lives has no bearing on how we're judged, that would seem to be the case. But then I'm still trying to apply logic to religion...
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:32 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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So you better watch out, you better not cry, Better not pout, I'm telling you why:
Santa Claus is comin' to town.
His making a list and checking it twice,
Gonna find out who's naughty and nice, Santa Claus is comin' to town.
Santa Claus is comin' to town.
He sees you when you're sleeping, He knows when you're a awake;
He knows if you've been bad or good, So be good, for goodness' sake!
Oh, you better watch out, you better not cry, Better not pout, I'm telling you why:
Santa Claus is comin' to town.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 3:52 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,086
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i do not have the patience to read all the babbling of the holy rollers. did even one of them quote my teacher when the adultress was brought before him? huh? i will wait. perhaps patience is a virture. we be jammin
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:00 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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JJ
I believe I was the only one who made that reference (I could have quoted) to that 4th post from the top. I guess stuff like that goes of their heads? Notice all the convoluted illogic and ranting all trying to figure out what's going on, what's right and wrong, and where they're going after they're dead. What could you expect from simians anyways?
[Edited on 3/22/2008 4:00 PM]
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:00 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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kattsmeow
Posts: 22,822
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Heaven, we are getting ready to go out and enjoy the weather, but I can't leave until i do say something.
Only the Angels were created to worship and praise God all the time.
We as humans are to glorify him by continuing on with the teachings of Jesus.
To live our life as a light to the world. We also are here to take care of the earth and all things on it I believe.
We glorify God by doing what he asked of us, not in continully worship and praise him. We also have children to raise, jobs to keep and all the things that go with being human.
Ok, We are out of here for a bit.
Servant, I will get back with you soon ok?
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:02 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 19,343
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Thanks Katt - we can continue this later, you're right, it's too beautiful to stay in!
Enjoy your day! 
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:02 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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sail_dancer
Posts: 10,205
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Jerry,
Jerry, are you hinting at "go and sin no more"?
We be Jammin'
Peace
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:04 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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He means that. So how do we know what he meant while others skip over that and I already knew what he would have said on page one? 
Where is JJ on this????
Jesus forgave and then said to sin no more.....Why is that last part being ignored?
Some need lessons on what it means to forgive. Its not a religious thing or a supernatural thing or a mystical thing. Its a human thing.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:10 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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jamminjerry
Posts: 4,086
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Damn! i gots all these non holy roller, agnostic, athestic whatever but not christian idjits quoting the words of my teacher! Lord tell me it ain't so! janka is in another room rousing rabble! women of course! i have no idea where the other pseudos are! i am honored that the truth shall not be hidden. Praise God from whom all blessings flow, praise him all creatures here below, praise him above the heavenly host, praise God, the son and holy ghost. amen 
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:18 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I'll tell you why. This is the problem with dogma and circular thinking. They are so entranced and hypnotized with their own self inflated egos and delusions that they don't even know their own religion well enough to know who the main character is....
and holy ghost. Hmmmm,....never mind....
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:32 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin?
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Soc Your my Brother and I love ya but I have to agree with katts and angel on this.
He said By your fruits ye shall be known.
While he said no one can snatch you. he did not say you cannot take your eyes off of him and turn back to following worldly desires. The ultimate goal of the Christian is to grow up into Christ likeness. We are still capable to make the choice to not believe in Jesus.
Lucifer was Gods anointed cherub. Yet he fell from the highest seat under God to the lowest by turning his eyes on himself. Yet he had been as close to God as one could be.
We cannot earn our salvation neither can we live in sin and honer God.
The Pharisees and saggasies were legalism's extreme and Jesus called them hypocrites for it.
I believe the Grace of God Goes a lot further then many who stand on the side of Legalism are inclined to believe. I also believe The grace of God was not meant to be abused and trampled under the feet of men holding onto lives of willful sin as they claim the grace while living unchanged lives.
Jesus said They honer me with their Lips But their hearts are far from me.
I believe that Believing is a Verb. Its an action and we need to believe on God everyday and by our fruits we shall be known.
The bible tells us we will be judged according to our works.
Now lets look at something else.
The children of Israel were delivered from the land of sin.
They were saved from Pharaohs hand of oppression and slavery
They were taken into the wilderness to be tried and strengthened.
Out of the over 600,000 men of fighting age Only two of those who had been saved out of the land of sin(Egypt} made it to their promise land.
The difference between these two is they were Wholly Given to God.
God wants the consecrated dedicated,seperated heart that serves him out of love.
I believe a true heart of love for God will break ones sinful habits. If we truly love God he will see Our longing to please him. He See's our hearts.
He said love washes away a multitude of sins.
I believe the Doctrine of eternal security is a poison that leads men not to Grow up in God and Remain babes drinking milk because the need for Growth isn't shown.
I also believe that their are sheep in Gods fold and their are leaders. The problem is if these ones who are sheep really are saved they still need to realize they need to be silent in the church and let the mature dedicated consecrated dedicated
men and woman of God handle the things of God. They refuse to Give themselves
yet many lift themselves up in importance before the church without A life that strives to live for God. None of us are perfect. we all must grow
The parable of the virgins shows the importance of being in a readied state at all times with our lams trimmed and full of oil. those who were not ready were not let in. they had oil but let it run out. so you cannot say they were never ready.
The blood of the passover lamb was applied to the mantle and door posts, not to the ground where it could be trampled on. He told them do not leave out from under the protection of the blood.
The wedding parable shows Jesus saying the Children {Jews} were called and would not come to the feast. So he invited the poor and the bagardly and those who were not royal born. (gentiles) yet when one who was not robed in a wedding Garment ( washed in the blood} was found at the feast he was caste out into darkness. we have a responsibility to Grow up in God and seek to honer him with our lives. the only way to truly do this is to Fall in Love with Jesus. We must know him to do that. if we don't know him, How can we say we believe in him?
GROW GROW GROW This is the Key to living for god. LOVING GOD.
I beleive the straight and narrow has a Ditch on Either side of it. One is legalism and the other is liberalism. I beleive the Path is Paved with the love of God.
God bless you all.
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| Mar 22, 2008 @ 4:35 PM |
Being "saved" means a license to sin? |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Them drugs are mighty powerful stuff.
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