| Apr 11 @ 8:36 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Alot of people on here seem to have a dim view of the Christian religion, and that is sad thing. Christ and his teachings are a very good thing.
Lie any teaching, with various folk, it will take root in different ways.
Not everyone who starts medical school ends up qualified to do surgery.
Those sort of "Christian" folk are an aggravation to everyone around them.
Aggravating to non-Christians because, no one likes to listen to a condescending jerk.
Aggravating to Christians because it is very hard to reach anyone with the same religion that someone else is using as an excuse to make an ass of themselves.
Those sort of "Christian" folk are usually too arrogant to realize the damage they do. They need to be told to shut-up. (and I am not shy about telling them)
When you think of the Christian religion, try to separate the teachings of Christ from some of the people that espouse the religion.
Consider: Christianity, which is a very good thing, is available to one and all. That includes pompous jerks. Unfortunately, many who were pompous jerks before they became Christians, will also be pompous jerks after they become Christian.
There is no certification process. Any fool can proclaim himself a Christian and start dishing out God's orders that he claims he is authorized to distribute. It is nearly impossible to get these arrogant jerks to shut-up. (although I usually try) the best you can do is often to ignore them and hope they go away.
The message of Christ is a gentle one of love, compassion. It is a message that says that you are important.
You matter.
And if you were the only one in the world that it could have helped, he would still have climbed himself up onto that cross just for you.
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| Apr 11 @ 9:32 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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You are on to something but are you considering the early history of Christianity in the first and second century where it all began to go wrong? Justin Martyr way back condemned Jews for not converting. They made excuses about their Jesus for appearing to be a copy of earlier man-gods and said Satan created copies before Jesus was born. Already you can see the mentality that created this religion to be that of mind control and manipulation. What about the dozens of Crusades? How about the Inquisitions? Pogroms? Blood Libels? How can anyone believe this sort of thing to be a good thing?
[Edited on 4/11/2008 9:43 AM]
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| Apr 11 @ 9:44 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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Original Christianity had it's good points but that is not the Christianity which has reached down to us over 2,000 years later!
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| Apr 11 @ 11:31 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Yash,
Peace
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| Apr 11 @ 11:45 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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What can we know about original Christianity or what it was before it became what we know today as Christianity? Are there any untainted churches that practice this original way? Do we need to wait for more Dead Sea Scrolls get translated? Will such information ever become public or will some dogmatic manic destroy any of it if it ever becomes translated if it has information that would be a threat to existing dogmas?
What we already know is the current versions has very little or no credibility and veracity and neither do its hypnotized followers.
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| Apr 11 @ 11:58 AM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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What can we know about original Christianity or what it was before it became what we know today as Christianity? Are there any untainted churches that practice this original way?
Alright!!!! Who kidnapped hammer and put this imposter in his place?
My experience has been that, the more organized a religion becomes, the more taineted it gets. Think of Swaggart, Baker, all of those molesting priests.
Remember, Yeashua's crucifixtion was brought on because he defied the conventional religious establishment.
I think if you want to get yourself on the right track you ought to:
1. Read the bible and try to get something out of it. One of those bible disks where you can scan for words and passages is huge boon.
2. Talk to other people you think are on the right track. There are whole lot of clueless windbags out ther that will throw you off course with their infinite wisdom.
That is what I try to do.
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| Apr 11 @ 12:07 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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Some of us simply have tried as best as anyone can to return to the source and verify what we can from all possible sources whether it be Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Zen or any other belief system.
Only a fool dedicates their life to anything which they cannot prove as true on their own.
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| Apr 11 @ 12:14 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I think if you want to get yourself on the right track you ought to: Who defines what the right track is?
1. Read the bible and try to get something out of it. One of those bible disks where you can scan for words and passages is huge boon. Well that is a big mistake. The bible is highly erroneous. Its flawed.
2. Talk to other people you think are on the right track. There are whole lot of clueless windbags out ther that will throw you off course with their infinite wisdom. We know about the clueless windbags. They're the one's who say they're the one's on the right track....
The problem lies with Christianity itself the way the bible portrays it. The human sacrifice is a throwback to earlier times when people were sacrificed to feed the gods. Its a worthless and destructive dogma for civilized people. Then there are the superstitions. One has to shovel deep to find real wisdom in the bible and there isn't much to find. Compassion, forgiveness, loving your enemy are virtues we can all use but the rest of it is nonsense in a sensible world. The concept of blood is another throwback to primitive times because blood is consider a life essence. That is linked to human sacrifice. None of that could have been taught by a wise man who might have been teaching a new or unique Way. The bible is a negative place for wisdom but it does reveal many things about how dogma was spread.
The concept of Christ is a good one. Its a title meaning anointed. It just means you've made a certain attainment or achievement in a knowledge and wisdom. If you read the Thomas Gospel you'll see that followers of Christ are to become Christ. Just like any teacher passes the baton to the students will will go and do greater things and there are hints of that where Jesus says his followers will do greater things.
[Edited on 4/11/2008 12:21 PM]
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| Apr 11 @ 12:20 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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Blame it on the Romans when they made Christianity theirs.
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| Apr 11 @ 1:23 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,539
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The ideas of Jesus expoused by Paul became intermixed with the Hellenistic ideas of philosophy and some ideas about eternal life, the best aspects of the mystery religions, especially Mithraism, that held ideas of battles of good vs. evil, atonement, and a savior dying for sins, and the powerful Hebrew codes of morality.
Mithraism co-existed with early christianity...it was the likely source of the idea of holy water. I've read that it foundered because of its militancy and failure to allow women.
Other religions, more philosophies really, that were present in the Levant were Stoics, Cynics, Epicureans...I forget some of the others.
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| Apr 11 @ 2:16 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Who defines what the right track is? You do. I have clsoe friends that I talk to about religion every now and then. they are intelligent and wanting to find answers without being full of themselves or condescending.
Well that is a big mistake. The bible is highly erroneous. Its flawed. Based on waht? How much bible reading have you done lately?
We know about the clueless windbags. They're the one's who say they're the one's on the right track.... Well, anyone says "I am the right track" is maybe a little presumptuous, but I can't see how saying "I am trying to get on the right track" could really offend anybody.
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| Apr 11 @ 2:23 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Based on waht? How much bible reading have you done lately? I've read plenty so whats the point? Who wrote the scriptures? Where they eye witnesses? And what about the fables in Genesis? The NT is also mostly fable too. Its not a book about facts, its myth.
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| Apr 11 @ 3:26 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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I've read plenty so whats the point? The point is, how can you denounce something you haven't had exposure to.
Who wrote the scriptures? Is this a quiz? Paul/Saul wrote the larger part of the NT. You can look up the authors on the internet.
Where they eye witnesses? I am pretty sure most of them are dead by now, it was some time back
And what about the fables in Genesis? Alot of people think it was Moses who authored the early parts of the OT, but no one knows for sure.
The NT is also mostly fable too. Its not a book about facts, its myth. Alot of people have that opinion. I am not saying I agree with you, but even if they are just fables, whether or not they actually happened, does not change the quality of the lessons behind the stories,
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| Apr 11 @ 3:40 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The point is, how can you denounce something you haven't had exposure to. I think I've been over exposed to it. But I do read it for pleasure, entertainment because its literature.
Is this a quiz? Paul/Saul wrote the larger part of the NT. You can look up the authors on the internet. But he never met Jesus yet there are accounts of hallucinations which we, well, we know what thats about...
I am pretty sure most of them are dead by now, it was some time back Most of them are dead by now? Someone still not dead yet? Who were they? There were no eyewitnesses or any contemporary writer who wrote a thing about Jesus. Not a shred despite there being enough of them taking notes everywhere. You'd think a man rasiing the dead, making the blind see, walking on water would have made the front pages. Something wrong with that picture since his birth was marked with a celestial event. This would have been news throughout his whole life. You would have thought Jesus himself would have wrote something growing up...Nothing....
The whole point here is that we evidence of a lot of thrashing about in the first century. First this is absolute silence for almost half a decade and then all this activity to write scripture. What was going on all that time? We do know something was going on but we just don't really know what..Christian was invented much later on and then Rome took control of it. What you have to day is a product Made in Rome not Made in Jerusalem.
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| Apr 11 @ 3:59 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Blame it on the Romans when they made Christianity theirs.
Now there's something I agree on  So they buried their idol man-gods and understood.
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| Apr 11 @ 4:04 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Someone still not dead yet? Who were they? There were no eyewitnesses or any contemporary writer who wrote a thing about Jesus. I think the little boy who offered the fishes and loaves, when Yeashua fed the multitudes, is still around. I will try to get hold of him and set up an interview for you.
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| Apr 11 @ 4:36 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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loisday
Posts: 1,333
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Lance..........
 
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| Apr 11 @ 5:03 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Lance, the best instructor is the Holy Spirit, just ask for him to lead you and instruct you and then stay in the word. Sometimes what we think is the right track isn't right at all. I agree about Baker and Swaggart.
As a matter of fact, I recently had a date with a man who is a very well-known prison minster. He ministers all over the country, has a book, has been on the seven hundred club and ptl.
He came here from Florida. While he was on the way here, I decided to google his nickname. Wonder of wonders, I found him on "Collared". While he was married, he was still looking to "play". Now that he is single, no mention of him being a minister, but wanted someone to travel with him. He is a DOM, admittedly.
Needless to say, we didn't have a pleasant meeting and I told him if he wanted that lifestyle to get out of the ministry, that he was false. Well, guess who hasn't and who won't and who thinks it is okay to be a dom and to play.
By the way, he told me that his favorite playmate is a married woman, but they don't have sex, she just does oral on him, gee.
He left a book here for my son to take to the chaplain at the prison where my son is an officer. I told him that I could not support his ministry or have my son take that book to the chaplain, that there were too many good, sincere ministries here in Texas that ministered in the prison.
This man even admitted his total anger at God for bringing his first wife to him, I was appalled.
So, are there false ministers and ministries? YES.
I don't have any trouble with anyone who practice what they preach. I DO have trouble with people who are perverts and corrupted in the ministry.
Lol, he is single, girls, if you want him.
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| Apr 11 @ 5:36 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Every time Bev posts one of her stories, I think of all the other "Walter Mitty"s in this world.
Peace
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| Apr 11 @ 5:45 PM |
The problem is not with Christ, it is with claiming to be Christians |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Sail don't you ever talk to women online and hope that it could work out, think maybe this is just what you have been looking for? I am the ultimate optimist, and that keeps me happy. If something doesn't work out, oh, well, there is something even greater just around the corner. God has something much, much better for me.
Hope springs eternal. You should have some hopes, some dreams, it is wonderful. You NEED some Walter Mitty moments, everyone does.
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