| May 11 @ 8:58 AM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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12knots
Posts: 6,400
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Its Sunday today and we get up in the morning, switch the TV on and hey presto...... all the religious fanatical church programmes are on the screen.
These church leaders and all their urchins dressed up like Hollywood Stars preaching the good gospel!!!! 
HA ha ha ha what a Circus!!!!!!!  
The rich gets richer and the poorer gets poorer comes to mind and what a huge con! 
Isnt this one huge embarrassment????
Well, it should be, because sometimes when I go out on the streets I see the poor in good ole US of A and the church are further from them as they are in touch with Biblical reality.
From the very beginnings to understanding Christianity as a child I knew something was wrong. Going to the circus and seeing the cruelty to animals was so appalling. As i grew with Christianity, the true circus IS Christianity.
It is even more cruel than the three ringed circus!
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| May 11 @ 9:50 AM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I've always seen this phenomenon among Christian and no other religion. I have never seen any Jewish program on TV ask for money. I've never seen Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Hindus host any TV show, do fake healings, play act they're hearing god speak to them, do psychic readings (Pat Robertson, Tilden are famous for this). There is no other religion where delusional idiots congregate in such droves but Christianity. Peter Popoff has demonstrated that Christians are the ultimate stupid religious group by making over $20,000,000 in one year alone selling them tap water and calling it Miracle water.
You realize, this is just a tiny bit of what these people have been fooled into believing and thats in addition to the mentally ill folk who suffer psychotic episodes where they hear god speak to them or see Jesus in their refrigerator.
[Edited on 5/11/2008 10:16 AM]
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| May 11 @ 12:35 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Its Sunday today and we get up in the morning, switch the TV on and hey presto...... all the religious fanatical church programmes are on the screen.
It's Sunday and when ( I ) got up, made coffee and then went outside to my patio to enjoy the birds singing and watch the sunrise, while the neighbors sleep off the party they had the night before. Kids start running around in the streets that are too young to even be out alone. The dogs begin barking constantly to be fed. Wives yelling at their husbands to mow the lawn that they didn't do last weekend and husbands swearing at their wives to get up and cook their damned breakfast.
Viewing the tramps that are too lazy to get a job, picking through peoples trash bins to collect the beer bottles from the night before drunk scoundrals fill. Ambulance and fire department show up at house down a couple blocks due to an all out fight in the middle of the night when 4 patrol units arrived.
Now that's a 3 ring circus!
Who needs T.V. to watch a circus when there is one right here in computer land
Well folks, have tell ya someth'n, those so called religious a.m. programs you watch, are for non-christians and non-believers. Yup! Keep watchin and become a dedicated idol worshiping consumer. Don't forget to pay your electric bill or you'll get real mad when your in the dark, then start yelling and dancing around cause you have no T.V. then the neighbors you woke up from their dunkardness will be real angry too and start throwing rocks at you and call the local police to have you taken away in a straight-jacket 
Ya life's a 3 ring circus
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| May 12 @ 10:56 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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12knots
Posts: 6,400
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Sorry, thought these Christian programmes were Christian programmes 
They sing to the lord and all that stuff and praise money.... I mean god.
Do you have to pay to get in? Or is it the usual tithe?
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| May 12 @ 11:46 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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What is a bigger embarrassment,someone that sees the poor and does nothing or the Christain churches that see the poor and provides food,shelter and medicine for them?
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| May 13 @ 10:00 AM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Jankia,
the Christain churches that see the poor and provides food,shelter and medicine for them I'm sure that if you check out a church's annual report, you will find that a very small percentage of what a church brings in is apportioned to charities.
I'm sure that the United Way and the Red Cross apportion more of the donations they receive to the needy.
Many churches donate to other missionary churches that then take their expenses out of the amounts considered donated to the needy.
I'm not saying that eventually some of the money trickles down to the needy, but most of it is wasted in legal loop holes that allow the church to support missionaries (that are part of the church) and consider it charity. In effect the church gives charity to itself to run missions designed to convert more members into their fold. That is not charity but investing in the future of the church itself (similar to a company investing in its future).
Churches should be forced to donate through private charities to assure that their donations go to the needy and not to support their missionay efforts (recruiting). Of course any expenses for efforts such as Soup Kitchens or Breakfeast for Homeless should consider to be charitable contributions.
If you really want your donations to reach the needy, donate to the United Way, Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc. This will assure that the money or gift is directed to the needy and not church recruiting efforts.
Churches tend to exagerate about the percentage of income that actually trickles down to the needy.
This is not a slur against innocent people that contribute to special church drives because their hearts are in the right place. If however they want to actually help the needy, there are many independent charitable organizations that do a better job of limiting overhead expenses and assuring larger net amounts reaching the needy.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 10:31 AM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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What you and others dont understand sail is that its not simply the amount of money thats given to help the poor and hungry,its the volunteered effort in providing time and materials to help the unfortunate.
Churches dont include volunteered efforts in personal donations of time and money in there annual reports.
Giving includes much more then only money.Our church for example doesnt send money to help our soldiers overseas,we send items they can use that they dont get easily in whatever countrythey serve in.We dont just send money to orphaned and deprived children all over the world,we send education materials,clothes,medical supplies etc.
We dont just send money to the homeless shelters we cook,deliver and serve food,supply clothes and bathroom essentials.
The church doesnt include in its annual reports the money it pays to sponsor blood drives,host testing clinics for HIV and other problems or providing facilities for teens and the elderly to have a place to gather safely because no money is taken in for any of those.
Much isnt exaggerated,its just not known by people that have no idea what a church does besides take an offering every Sunday.
There is alot more done by Christain people then just wake up Sunday morning and turn on the TV.
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| May 13 @ 11:14 AM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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What you and others dont understand sail is that its not simply the amount of money thats given to help the poor and hungry,its the volunteered effort in providing time and materials to help the unfortunate. Do you read my posts before you respond?
I said:Of course any expenses for efforts such as Soup Kitchens or Breakfeast for Homeless should consider to be charitable contributions. What Soup Kitchens or Breakfeasts for Homeless can be run without the volunteer efforts of charitable people?
Look around you and notice the number of churches you see. There are enough churches that if they truly wanted to eliminate poverty, they could. Think of all the donations that church members make throughout the country. If one third of those donations were used properly, there would be no need for Soup Kitchens or Breakfeasts for Homeless. These types of activities do not solve the poverty problem, they actually promote it because it is a free handout that the poor eventually depend upon.
Why not use donations to solve the problem? Help retrain people that are out of work. Provide affordable housing, Provide debt counseling or interest free loans to people to help them get on their feet. There are many more ways to attack the problem.
Churches don't want to eliminate poverty or homelessness. They thrive on these people by feeding them like stray cats in order to lure them into the flock. Eliminating poverty eliminates the need for these people to rely on others. It allows people to stand tall. Exactly what the church does not need.
I'm sure that your efforts are from your heart, but those efforts are not being used by your church to eliminate the problem.
providing facilities for teens and the elderly to have a place to gather safely I am not saying that churches do not do things for people. Providing facilities does more for the church than the people it attracts. It is done to lure future converts. If that money was used to provide affordable housing it would be better spent.
Everything you listed are generous gestures and require many generous people like you to donate their time and effort. For this I commend you. I just feel that churches design their charitable efforts to lure converts by assisting them in their shortcomings, but refuses to invest its time to solve the actual problem.
Good charitable efforts in the wrong direction will not solve the poverty problems. Until the church honestly takes steps to eliminate the problem, the poverty rolls will just continue to increase. The goal should be to eliminate the problem thus eliminating the need for many of the programs the churches now run.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 12:53 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Yes,I did read your comment sail but did you read mine? Its not all about the final line in money.
Think of all the donations that church members make throughout the country. If one third of those donations were used properly, there would be no need for Soup Kitchens or Breakfeasts for Homeless. These types of activities do not solve the poverty problem, they actually promote it because it is a free handout that the poor eventually depend upon.
Why not use donations to solve the problem? Help retrain people that are out of work. Provide affordable housing, Provide debt counseling or interest free loans to people to help them get on their feet. There are many more ways to attack the problem.
What you dont know is that its not all done as a free handout.The homeless shelters ours,along with many others support with all the items I listed above do provide help with retraining and seeking employment.The homeless are required to prove they are at least trying to support themselves by limiting the time they can spend in the shelter.There are also many financial institutions that do support our efforts with loans to those that dont just sit and wait for a handout.
It is done to lure future converts. If that money was used to provide affordable housing it would be better spent. I repeat,its not all about money.
Havent you ever heard of Habitat for Humanity-Habitat for Humanity International is a nonprofit, ecumenical Christian organization dedicated to eliminating substandard housing and homelessness worldwide and to making adequate, affordable shelter a matter of conscience and action. Habitat is founded on the conviction that every man, woman and child should have a simple, decent, affordable place to live in dignity and safety.
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| May 13 @ 1:51 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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12knots
Posts: 6,400
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Isnt it all about "we give and you give back to us." That is, you are our converts
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| May 13 @ 2:39 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Havent you ever heard of Habitat for Humanity- Yes I have! And I have had conversations with Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter about Habitat for Humanity and they supported it because it was not a christian organization but an independent low income housing organization. They were pleased with how contributions were handled and the low overhead involved with the program.
Seems that the christian element originally present in Habitat no longer exists. The founder and his wife were fired. They since have started another christian based group.
Here is an article I found in Wiki:Reference: New York Times, 09 January, 2008
In an extraordinary act of rebellion, the oldest affiliate of Habitat for Humanity International has filed suit to protest a new agreement that the nonprofit housing organization is imposing on its 1,600 local chapters.
The San Antonio affiliate, which built the first Habitat house, is seeking a court ruling that would allow it to continue to use the Habitat name without signing the agreement, which it contends gives the international organization too much power over its assets and operations.
“We have about $21 million in buildings and other tangible and intangible assets that we’ve acquired over 31 years on our own, and this agreement gives them unilateral and total control over us,” said Rene Diaz, chairman of the San Antonio Habitat’s board and a professional mediator. “If we fall out of favor, they could come in and take over everything and we couldn’t do a thing about it.”
Chris Clarke, a spokesman for Habitat International, said it was not aware of the lawsuit until 4 p.m. Tuesday. “Having only received the complaint within the last couple of hours,” Mr. Clarke said, “we cannot comment in detail about the allegations but are confident of our right of ownership and our right to protect the Habitat for Humanity name.” Habitat International’s general counsel and a member of its executive committee are scheduled to meet with the San Antonio board on Jan. 22.
San Antonio is one of an unknown number of Habitat affiliates that refused to sign the agreement by Dec. 31, the deadline set by Habitat International, as the national organization is known. Habitat affiliates in New Orleans, Birmingham, Ala., and Tulsa, as well as dozens of other smaller affiliates, have expressed concern about the agreement for months.
Mr. Clarke said that “a majority” of the affiliates had signed the agreement and that many others had asked for extensions of the deadline. He said he could not provide a precise tally because the organization was still opening mail that had arrived over the holidays.
Since the new year, Habitat International has been contacting those affiliates who have not signed the agreement or filed for an extension, making it clear they are no longer regarded as in “good standing.” That means they are no longer eligible for programs Habitat International has centralized, like corporate giving programs from companies like Whirlpool and Dow Chemical, which supply appliances and construction materials for houses the affiliates build.
The San Antonio affiliate and Habitat International had been wrangling over the agreement for more than a year, and last spring, Larry Gluth, Habitat International’s vice president for United States affiliate field operations, flew to San Antonio and met with the entire board.
“After that, we prepared a very extensive response at great cost with an attorney’s help,” Mr. Diaz said. “Unfortunately, none of our changes were addressed in a final draft that came to us sometime in late November.”
Habitat has been rocked by internal dissent ever since the board dismissed Millard Fuller, a founder of the organization, in 2005 over accusations that he had improperly touched a female subordinate, which he has denied and the board itself said it could not substantiate.
Mr. Fuller and his wife, Linda, who founded Habitat with him, then started the Fuller Center for Housing, and at least two small Habitat affiliates have become Fuller Centers. Several former employees of Habitat affiliates have left to start Fuller Centers in their communities.
Karen Robison, who recently resigned as the executive director of the Habitat affiliate in Denton, Tex., and has started a Fuller Center there, said she thought some affiliates might follow San Antonio’s example.
“I think it’s come to a time in the organization’s evolution,” Ms. Robison said, “when people who have made a commitment to the original values and mission have to decide whether this is still the ministry it started out as or whether it is just another low-income housing program.”
I think Habitat is a very good and needed low income housing provider, but I think that because of the requirements that must be met by recipients, it does not address true poverty stricken and homeless people. It is a good first step but it only helps people that can afford the homes built.
Again we find christians that are more concerned with their mission and ministry that the people they claim to be helping.
I support Habitat because it has drifted away from the christian element and focuses on the human element. I am sure that Jimmy and Rosalynn both are concerned with what has happened to the organization.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 2:41 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Isnt it all about "we give and you give back to us." That is, you are our converts Exactly! And the main reason why the christian church will never address the real problem and take steps to eliminate poverty and homelessness.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 3:38 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Seems that the christian element originally present in Habitat no longer exists. Seems you really dont know so you pretend to by posting what you c&p from wiki?
Put a little effort into actually reading about Habitat for Humanity or the quote from the site I provided before claiming second hand info of what you heard from Carter.And I have had conversations with Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter about Habitat for Humanity and they supported it because it was not a christian organization but an independent low income housing organization. So why does he hand out bibles during his work project for Habitat for Humanity International?
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| May 13 @ 5:06 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Jankia,
So why does he hand out bibles during his work project for Habitat for Humanity International? The man I met and respect, wouldn't insult a nonbeliever by handing them a bible. You make him sound like a JW. He is however a very religious christian that knows what being a christian is all about. If he did give out bibles it was because he knew that the workers were affiliated with a local church or christian organization and was giving them the bible in thanks for work well done.
If a Muslim or Athiest were in the group, he wouldn't insult them by presenting them a bible.
I also attended a presentation he made to the Bermuda Government before Habitat started providing servives in Bermuda. It was about two hours long and contained a video about Habitat followed by a speach by Jimmy Carter. Christianity or Christian Church was never mentioned in the presentation, no beginning prayer and no bibles were handed out.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 5:19 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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SunBabe
Posts: 12,251
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I've spent a lot of time with Habitat (working!)...and never evidenced any religious affiliation, whatsoever. SOME of the crews were from assorted churches and temples, some were from local corporations and businesses, some were from organizations (VFW, American Legion, Masons, Garden Clubs, etc), and many were "just people" from high schools and the community.
One doesn't need to be Christian (or ANY religion) to do nice things for others -- and the Habitat concept also promotes "self-reliance" (the new owners donating their own sweat equity -- and paying for their new property through mortgages.)
(Of course my observations could be a regional thing -- I was in an area where good people and good acts weren't always confined to churches)
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| May 13 @ 8:33 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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One doesn't need to be Christian (or ANY religion) to do nice things for others
I don't understand why some think only Christians do good things.
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| May 13 @ 8:47 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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Because Jesus told them?
He won't talk to any of us. He knows we're onto him..... 
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| May 13 @ 10:18 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Since you folks arent debating you must all agree with the OP's comment that the true circus IS Christianity. I wont bother debating with any of you that didnt bother to read what I quoted directly from the Habitat for Humanity website.I would post it again but I doubt you will bother to know the facts.
sail- If he did give out bibles it was because he knew that the workers were affiliated with a local church or christian organization and was giving them the bible in thanks for work well done.
If a Muslim or Athiest were in the group, he wouldn't insult them by presenting them a bible.
Since you cannot accept the true facts presented,arguing with your "ifs" hardly holds any credence.The bible I was speaking of that was handed out by Carter was to the people they built the home for...not the workers.Whether or not he knew they were Muslim or Atheist,I have no idea,maybe you could find the facts yourself and let me know if its important.
bandmom-I don't understand why some think only Christians do good things. You could start a thread asking why some think that but along with what Sunbabe said nowhere on this thread or any other did anyone mention that only Christains do good things.
Is Christianity the Three Ringed Circus or the people that arent Christains who agree that it is? I ask because those people may well be the same people that see the poor in good ole US of A and do nothing other than complain that the churches are doing nothing in there behalf and ignore proof given to the contrary.
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| May 13 @ 10:27 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Jankia,
do nothing other than complain that the churches are doing nothing in there behalf and ignore proof given to the contrary. You love to twist words! I never said that churches are doing nothing. I said that they place their efforts in helping people in a way that they are made dependent on the church's charity rather than placing its efforts to help solve the cause of the problem and eliminate it.
Whether you want to admit it or not, much of the church's charity and missionary efforts are designed to recruit new members.
Peace
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| May 13 @ 10:49 PM |
Christianity the Three Ringed Circus |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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sail- I never said that churches are doing nothing I never said you did,I was referring to who I quoted that said this...sometimes when I go out on the streets I see the poor in good ole US of A and the church are further from them as they are in touch with Biblical reality. I took "further" as meaning the same as doing "nothing".Maybe that was wrong just the same as what the OP insinuated about Christianity.
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