| Jun 4 @ 9:18 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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SOC, that one was so easy.
Try this one...
"What causes suffering?"
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| Jun 4 @ 9:35 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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loisday
Posts: 1,333
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Bringing up a few things in pages past...........I'm a little behind due to being unable to type and be on line...getting better, so I'll do a bit of one finger pecking...... 
There was talk of God hating Esau. Sail questioned the translation. This is where I find the problem to be. The Aramaic was translated into roman/greek.......that was bad enough.......then along came the attempt to translate that into english.........  What a total screw up!! The KJV and it's many spin offs are not reliable. The verse in question...when translated directly from the aramaic {by persons that learned it from birth} into english......the verse actually reads: "I have not favored Esau". The word hate is incorrect. Sail posted a few other verses where the word "hate" was used. Again the translation was more....displeasure...not pleased by.........
In Psalms 5:5....the words: "thou hatest" are used.. This is David talking.................to God. Not God talking to David. David is speeking about the enemies of his kingdom at that time. David had a lot to say....and not very nicely...about the enemies of his kingdom. I am still looking, but, I can not find where God himself is quoted as hating anyone. I do not believe that he does.
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| Jun 4 @ 9:46 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,154
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I do not believe that he does.
I agree! If God hated someone then the passages about it is His desire that none should perish, or God is love could not be true. No God dislikes what we as people do, or even what some of His angels have done but He doesn't hate any of His creations. Much of what God is or what He has said to us is paradoxical in nature but there is no dichotomy in Him.
S
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| Jun 4 @ 9:46 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Thanks for your input, Lois.
This is the stuff discussions are made of.
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| Jun 4 @ 9:55 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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I agree! If God hated someone then the passages about it is His desire that none should perish, or God is love could not be true.
God of love isnt true in retrospect. Evil is created by God if God exists. (He doesnt but thats not the present argument.)
No God dislikes what we as people do, or even what some of His angels have done but He doesn't hate any of His creations.
Did he tell you that? If he doesnt hate any of his creations why does he ultimately destroy them??? 
Much of what God is or what He has said to us is paradoxical in nature but there is no dichotomy in Him. 
You mean paradoxical according to anyones perceived belief in him as they try to interpret their lives based on him when in absolute reality you dont have a clue that he exists.
All of life is a dichotomy. If he does exist even this particular subject is a dichotomy.
The only reason why anyone believes that God exists is because it has been drummed into them since birth through the ages from ancient God myths. Isnt it so?
[Edited on 6/4/2008 9:55 PM]
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| Jun 4 @ 9:55 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Thanks for the insights Lois. 
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| Jun 4 @ 9:57 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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SOC,
What is suffering?
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| Jun 4 @ 9:59 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Seal said:
If God hated someone then the passages about it is His desire that none should perish, or God is love could not be true.
Then why do some perish? If God is so loving why is there a chance that even the tiniest life be lost?
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| Jun 4 @ 10:03 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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People turning to this Forum in hope of finding enjoyable verbal exchange is certainly disappointing.
Enduring these disappointments for 6-8 months is suffering.
(How many months is it, that you've been treating us to your brilliance here h?)
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| Jun 4 @ 10:06 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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SOC, that is pretty lame and a whine.
YOU are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. Why on earth dont you reply to the simplest question put forth to you?
You brought the subject up and so you should qualify your statements when questioned.
"What is suffering?"
Is this too difficult for you?
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| Jun 4 @ 10:38 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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*sigh
Gone again.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:45 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Same old thing constantly. They make statements and then when anyone questions them... cut and run or disruption through attacks against the questioner.
Later, they will blame everyone but themselves! As usual!
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| Jun 4 @ 10:46 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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loisday
Posts: 1,333
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Then why do some perish? If God is so loving why is there a chance that even the tiniest life be lost?
Mom..............this is the very hardest part for me to understand. I have something that I believe..........Who knows if there is any truth in it.......who knows if there isn't? I can only say that this is my belief. I will try to make it brief...
This is from studies from my early 20's....I do not have "chapter" and "verse" to spout. Anyone interested will just have to do their own research........
He who is...or isn't..whatever....I choose to call God....just 'cause that's what I like to call him........
God created.........worlds, creatures to sing and worship him...he was lonesome. Then He realized that the "sheeples" weren't very cool. They were created to do only His requests. So He created beings of free will..let's call them angels...for lack of a better term. They were OK.......but he wanted a friendship..a Love..and so created "man". Now this was cool. He walk and talked with him..gave man a world..by gave..let's call it "rented" instead. There was a lease agreement involved. Man signed on the dotted line to obey the rules of ownership. Along came one of the free will angels.....he wanted to be like God....he was "evil" He chose to be that way. God did NOT create the evil.....but the choice to obey or not was there. Using tricks...this bad guy...got "man" to break the lease on his rental unit{the world} and sub-lease it to the bad guy. I think there is a time frame on the lease...and by defalt the lease is in the hands of the bad guy. Legally...
God can't go back on his word.......he must honor the lease. Legally ..until the lease is up...the bad guy gets away with a lot of nasty stuff. I think that the Second Coming is where the lease is up and a type of "eden" will again exist.
There are a lot of holes in this story.............I question it daily. I see through a glass darkly..........I know little. The more I study...the less I know.
I can only say that this is my story.....and I'm sticking with it..........
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| Jun 4 @ 10:49 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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If god doesn't create evil then why does the bible say he does?
No particular reason. Its just the story that was made up anyway.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. and so does every other psychopath...
However god is wrong. He doesn't create darkness. Its not a thing that gets created. Darkness is simply the absence of light. Its light that gets created, not darkness. God himself is delusional.
[Edited on 6/4/2008 10:53 PM]
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| Jun 4 @ 10:52 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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loisday
Posts: 1,333
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Where does it say that God "created" evil?
Doesn't it actually say that free will was created? The choice to obey or disobey?
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| Jun 4 @ 10:56 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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There are a lot of holes in this story.............I question it daily.
I'll say! Yes, question it daily!
I see through a glass darkly..........I know little.
Keeping seeking truth.
The more I study...the less I know.
I can only say that this is my story.....and I'm sticking with it.........
Dont contradict yourself. Question it daily or stick with it. Which really means seek wisdom or keep ignorance.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:58 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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So we got a god who creates evil and creates darkness. This is a sick god isn't it? As I said, darkness is not a creation. Its a condition without light. Darkness is not a thing but light is. What's wrong with god? Doesn't he know this?
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| Jun 4 @ 10:59 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Lois!
Nice! A seeking mind never goes stagnant.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:59 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Doesn't it actually say that free will was created? The choice to obey or disobey?
If God created everything then that is it in a nut shell. No free will because HE created what ever we do. Lets face it, we are bounded by anything and everything no matter which way we turn. No free will at all. Basically we are stuck on this planet, right?
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| Jun 4 @ 11:00 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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"What is suffering?"
Each person will identify suffering by ones personal experiences they receive. But here's my short definition of suffering.
A Sorrowful effect from an unpleasant caused affliction. 
Sorry I been away so long...been a long work week for Angel. 
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