| Jun 3 @ 4:11 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Seems that there was much hate in the OT god's heart.
Did translators improperly translate the Hebrew to English, or is the OT god more human than we think? I think the translation was fine, but the perception was wrong. Yeashua came to fix. You call a plumber when your pipes are busted.
Again you dodge the question. If god is the "boss man", why couldn't he find a better way than having his son beaten and killed? Seems he has a penchant for blood, gore and death. I will take a shot.
It is like asking, "If God can do anything, can he make a stone so heavy he can't lift it" yes he can. He can't lift it from a lack of power, but from being God.
What I mean is.
In the start of "Air Force One" Harrison Ford (the president) cracks a joke to the pilot "Second thought, let just head for Barbados" The pilot laughs and says "Hey you're the boss" To which Ford replies, "Wow, I sure wish I could"
The point is, it was with in his powers to order the plane to a sunny vacation spot. He is empowered to, because he is the president, but he can't, because he is the president.
God is a god of love, but also a God of justice. By his nature, he cannot be untruthful or unfair, or break a promise.
He has the power to say "nevermind, you don't have to be punished for your wrong doings" but he can't because he is God, and cannot reverse himself. The price had to be paid, and Yeashua, who owed nothing, paid it for us.
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| Jun 3 @ 4:24 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Good analogy of God as president. He needs to be impeached for incompetency and corruption.
Whats interesting about these fables is that people really bring such imaginary beings to life. Its almost multimedia, in fact it is for those who can hallucinate it. I bet they get surround sound 5.1 Dolby too. SOC could clue is in with that one. I guess those are the advantages of having a brain disorder when you're religious. You can just turn on the seizures in your temporal lobes.
Let's face it. If there was a real god, there would be no need to read scriptures over 2000 years old because there would be a living god, not a living myth hiding in the shadows for preachers, ministers, reverends and pastors to tell stories about. If that is not evidence of the weakness of religion in general I don't know what is. There is always some salesman selling faith and often for a tax deductible price.
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| Jun 3 @ 4:32 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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In your estimation, does God change? Does God hate anyone?
Isn't god the same yesterday, today, and forever???
I believe scripture backs this statement.
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| Jun 3 @ 4:57 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Lance,
He has the power to say "nevermind, you don't have to be punished for your wrong doings" but he can't because he is God, and cannot reverse himself. The price had to be paid, and Yeashua, who owed nothing, paid it for us.
God doesn't have to reverse himself. By changing the game to have his son sacrificed, he changed his original law. My point was: he couldn't have done it in a more civilized way? He had to sacrifice his son that did nothing but follow his every command? This still is not a loving god. This is an egotistical god that acts more like a dictator.
Why is it that blood of anykind must be shed? I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong when it comes to some sort of repentance for wrongdoings. I'm saying that christian dogma still makes god out to be a blood thirsty, egotistical god that wants one thing only..........subservient followers!
If this was the case, why give us free will in the first place? Why have Jesus teach us that if we follow his teachings we would not only be able to do things that he did, but do things greater than he. Seems to me Jesus was telling us that god wants a lot more for us than just being subservient followers (like dogs).
Peace
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| Jun 3 @ 8:18 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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"Why is it that blood of anykind must be shed?" --sd
Proverbs 6:16--"There are 6 things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to Him: 17--haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18--a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19--a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brother."
"I'm saying that christian dogma still makes god out to be a blood thirsty, egotistical god that wants one thing only..........subservient followers!" --sd
Christian dogma seemingly attends fairly closely to the words of the Bible.
From Genesis 9:6--" 'Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man. 7--As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.' 8--Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9--'I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10--and with every living creature that was with you--the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you--every living creature on earth. 11--I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a great flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.' "
Does sailesque, (the personal interpretation you have for the Bible), not include this portion of His Word? Is this another part of the Bible you choose to omit?)
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| Jun 3 @ 8:23 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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"There are 6 things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to Him: 17--haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18--a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19--a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brother
God planned the bloody death of his own son.....
Does he hate himself?
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| Jun 3 @ 8:27 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Hammer... it was terrible of me insulting cavemen. Thank for putting me right!
  
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| Jun 3 @ 8:31 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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SOC,
Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a great flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth
You have got to be kidding. No more floods, just plagues, destroying of cities and selective genocide. 
You only read the parts of the bible that don't shake your faith in christian dogma. And you are the one that insists that the whole bible is true and the inerrant word of god.
Peace
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| Jun 3 @ 8:57 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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So 16knots,I'm sure your happy now that you know you can throw whatever bull you like about me... It is about time you seeked truth instead of relying on caveman mentality. Stop relying on others for your excuse of life and seek what life is providing in truth. and the Mods allow it but when I challenged you to match your excuse of life against mine they deleted it.
A person with a history of slander sure has its privileges on here. 
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| Jun 3 @ 9:02 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Jankia...
It is about time you seeked truth instead of relying on narrow-minded mentality. Stop relying on others for your excuse of life and seek what life is providing in truth.
Do you know what this means?
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| Jun 3 @ 9:11 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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I think the problem is that when there is a challenge to faith, there comes a fear that maybe the challenge is actually right.
There should be no fear in questioning one's faith for in questioning, one can only grow stronger.
There should be no fear in researching and documenting what one believes for that only strengthens the belief.
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| Jun 3 @ 9:17 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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j_goose, within the hour I pointed out chapter, verse and words where He demands a payment for shedding the blood of another human.
Why was Jesus chosen by His Father to be the Living Sacrifice for the redemption of humankind?
Romans 3:19--"Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20--Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21--But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the prophets testify. 22--This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference 23--for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24--and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25--God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in His blood. He did this to demonstrate His justice, because in His forebearance He had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--26--He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." Please note that the scriptures clearly state that God only justifies those who believe in Jesus Christ. This is not purely a bit of chicanery on the part of wily Christian philosophers.
These are the words of the Bible.
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| Jun 3 @ 9:21 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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BUT....the question still remains.
Why was it required?
Why couldn't God change the rules and give everyone a "Get Out of Jail Free" card to everyone instead of killing his son.
The Bible doesn't and can't answer this.
If he is all powerful, he can change the rules.
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| Jun 3 @ 9:22 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Do you know what this means? Of course I know what this means,it means you say whatever crap you like about me like relying on others. when you have no idea how opposite my life is over what you say on here to make yourself look better.
Back to the second time youve made the claim that I rely on others.Maybe you could explain that accusation because its so off the wall its hilarious.
Unless you could show all the people on here where you came up with it,grow up and behave the age you claim to be.
Fortunatly there is a big difference between you and I knots.I dont say anything on here that isnt true to make up for being unable to say what is true.
The fear of losing an argument for lack of material isnt one of mine.I can be wrong but I cant lower myself to degrading the person that happens to be right either.
[Edited on 6/3/2008 9:28 PM]
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| Jun 3 @ 9:25 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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This is not purely a bit of chicanery on the part of wily Christian philosophers.
These are the words of the Bible.
No? Who but wily christian theologians wrote the new testament?
Peace
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| Jun 3 @ 9:25 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Sail_Dancer, I'm curious?
Which parts of the Bible are you suggesting that I ignore?
If in the past I have excluded any of the words of the Bible in an understanding of the truths God has given us, I apologize.
This should not be.
The entire Bible must be used in order to completely understand His words.
Nothing can be omitted.
Nothing.
I apologize if I have done this.
Where have I done such a thing?
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| Jun 3 @ 9:34 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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Nothing can be omitted.
Nothing.
I apologize if I have done this.
Where have I done such a thing?
Well,
1) god doesn't change.
2) The law of god stands forever. (But not the OT apparently)
3) Jesus said he did not come to change "one letter of the law"
4) slavery (especially selling one's daughter as a sex slave)
5) killing Homosexuals, unruly children, non virgin women(if they're not married)
6) Killing anone who works on the sabbath....
there's more.
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| Jun 3 @ 9:35 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Jankia:
It is about time you seeked truth instead of relying on narrow-minded mentality. Stop relying on others for your excuse of life and seek what life is providing in truth.
Do you know what this means?
This means you do not seek truth. It means you rely on ideologies based on little truth in foundation.
You are relying on others is relying on faith that is supposedly correct and true based on what others tell you. What has been instilled on you since birth. Your life is based on faith which has been proven corrupt, unreliable and untruthful countles times in thee threads.
Many of us have made statements of truth and backed these statements with facts and demonstrations of why they are truth which are undeniable. Not faith, not hearsay, not fables but actual truth in logic, philosophy and anything else you may wish to brand them with. "Undeniable truth."
If you wish to continue denial in life from truth that is for you to live by but please dont whine and badger real truth seekers because you find it difficult to substantiate anything you may say that we disagree on in truth with backed up logic and principles.
Live a lie, we dont!
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| Jun 3 @ 9:39 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Of course I know what this means,it means you say whatever crap you like about me like You used to say stuff like this to Sail. Now you're saying it to Knots. When is it my turn?
What exactly is being said about you? Its hard to follow this kind of neurosis.
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| Jun 3 @ 9:44 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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Live a lie, we dont!
Live my life..you dont.
I dont rely on what others tell me,I rely on what God tells me.Thats not a weakness,its the truth.No Hammertime,I didnt speak and hear Gods voice so save your usual banter,I feel it and Ive spoken of it how many times before on here.
Some say I'm lucky but I'm not...I'm blessed.
So far as your question hammertime...learn to read and quit asking questions you allready know the answer for...duh
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