| Jun 3 @ 11:26 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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Jankia
Posts: 9,053
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So where DO you get your information?
I of course initially got my information first from my parents and then the church which does use the Bible but I dont rely on a book,I base my information and rely on what I expierience every day.
The earth,its almost unlimited new discoveries and its countless life-forms found nowhere else.The people,the true stories we tell and the children we raise.
God himself gives me the information I need about him through what he gave me.
He of course gives everyone the same information as he gives me.Some can use that info better and some worse or some can theorize that its not from God they receive it but from something else.
Doesnt matter,you asked where I get mine from and thats my truth. 
I"m just wondering why a Christian and a member of the Methodist Church says he doesn't rely on the Bible.
OK Bandmom,I'll answer that in a second but first I'm always wondering why you are in nearly all of these threads that question Christianity but you hardly ever if at all contribute anything that are your own opinions.Brenda just asked me the same thing and I dont know,so I ask.
Since people are known by the company they keep are you sure you want to be known as a Buddhist that other Buddhists have shaken there finger at for being wrong or that other people have corrected for being disrespectfull without reason?
Anyway,as Ive told before,I rely on God the same as the Methodist church does,we just do it the way we both see fit.You that place your reliance on the teachings of a man or on the words of a book is how you see it fit to live.
If I say I'm relying on God personally instead of what was written about him by man,that in no way meant I dont follow the bible.
Its a guide to God.
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| Jun 3 @ 11:36 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Nice post Jankia.
Since people are known by the company they keep are you sure you want to be known as a Buddhist that other Buddhists have shaken there finger at for being wrong or that other people have corrected for being disrespectfull without reason?
oph... give examples and reasoning?
Anyway,as Ive told before,I rely on God the same as the Methodist church does,we just do it the way we both see fit.You that place your reliance on the teachings of a man or on the words of a book is how you see it fit to live.
The reliance isnt on the teachings of a man. Very much mistaken. This isnt Christianity. The Buddha taught a way that all can follow if wished but he said dont follow blindly but question everything. Hence many Buddhas are known. Many have taught the same thing. Its a bit like Jesus saying this is who I am and you can be too. Many try and they found they can be Jesus too and hence they taught as Jesus did.
Sp we dont follow the teachings of one Buddha or actually the many because we can be Buddhas ourselves and our best teacher IS ourselves by doing what the Buddha said, "question everything." Dont take his word for it but find out for yourselves. So thats what Buddhists do.
They seek the truth and of course the absolute truth is the same for everyone. One day Jankia you will find this out for yourself. You have no choice in the matter eventually.
Sorry to quote again:
[QUOTE]You that place your reliance on the teachings of a man or on the words of a book is how you see it fit to live.
Isnt this what YOU do  We dont! 
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| Jun 3 @ 11:57 PM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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Jankia
Posts: 9,053
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oph... give examples and reasoning? Certainly,by one of your fellow Buddhists from the Why do Buddhists come into obviously Christian threads?
Please note: 12knots is an angry, disruptive bully and not representative of the Buddhist community. He causes as many disruptions on the buddhist threads as he causes on any forum he goes on, including the christian ones. His primary purpose is to inflame arguments and disrupt conversations. That is the extent of his "spiritual development." He's on MD because there is so little moderation here that he can get away with behavior that is not tolerated in regular non-MD moderated buddhist discussion groups.
OK knots,I'll quit this debate with a person that cannot read when they say this...
Sorry to quote again: I said...
You that place your reliance on the teachings of a man or on the words of a book is how you see it fit to live.
16knots-Isnt this what YOU do We dont! Like I said,get some reading lessons to help you understand the true word and not the one you want it to say.
Oh yeah,just from this thread of yours concerning your disrepect to my first post on topic...It is about time you seeked truth instead of relying on caveman mentality. Stop relying on others for your excuse of life and seek what life is providing in truth.
You asked for examples and reasoning that was your disrespectfull reply to me
[Edited on 6/4/2008 12:09 AM]
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| Jun 4 @ 1:23 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,469
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Jankia,
I of course initially got my information first from my parents and then the church which does use the Bible but I don’t rely on a book, I base my information and rely on what I experience every day.
I wanted to stay out of this conflict, because I felt that both sides were quarreling from the extreme sides of the spectrum. Now that things calmed down, here is how I see it.
I think I understand what Jankia is saying. He has seen enough in life and nature to prove to him there is a god. I happen to consider it a force or "all that there is or is not", but basically it is the same belief. So when Jankia says it is his own belief, he honestly believes that he was not influenced that much.
The problem is that he has been influenced as he said by his parents and then the church. The life experiences and nature tells us that there is something greater at work here. It does not tell anyone that this "something greater" is the christian god. It does not in any way hint at a deity that is a trinity. It in no way by itself proves to us the existence of the man/god Jesus; his virgin birth; his miracles; his death or resurrection.
So if you really look at the whole picture, the only thing that you have proved to yourself is that there is "something greater". All the rest has been based on what your parents and church taught you. You say that you don't rely on a book, but most of your beliefs originated in that book.
You don't realize it but by saying that you don't rely on the book you are telling us that you rely heavily on those that read it and give you their interpretation of what it says.
So Knots is not wrong in what he is saying. You feel that your belief is "base my information and rely on what I experience every day". But what information or experiences support anything more than the obvious truth that "something greater" exists? Does it support a christian dogma base on a bible more than 2,000 years old? Does it prove that this bible is the inerrant word of god? Does it prove that the men that wrote the bible were inspired?
You may not have realized it but your experiences really only proved on thing, that being the existence of "something greater". Everything else is someone else's beliefs that were taught to you. It is these beliefs that are considered dogma because nothing can substantiate them. The life and nature around us may prove to us that there must be "something greater", but not what it is; what it expects of us; or what our future may bring.
Being that so much of your faith is derived from bible stories, I suggest you read the bible and based on the information you gain and the experiences you get from its verses, make up your own mind about what christian dogma teaches.
I'm not attacking you with this post, but trying to explain how those that you consider nonbelievers see it.
Peace
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| Jun 4 @ 8:30 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Jankia, my postings are quite clear despite your ignorance and spitefullness.
10 Questions every intelligent Christian must answer
Enjoy! 
[Edited on 6/4/2008 8:56 AM]
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| Jun 4 @ 9:03 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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There is a general lack of teachings among the religious to think for themselves. This is anti-philosophy. In every case of religious indoctrination requires someone in the front of the room doing the talking. Jesus is the model giving sermons while others sit there and listen. Every preacher, minister, reverend, pastor and priest does this too. Sheepish followers hungry for direction in their lives, those who feel lost drop their jaws in mindless anticipation of more and more dogma leading to their own doom.
The Jesus myth sets the model by saying he is the only way. That makes all others dependent sheep who are incapable of finding their own way. To be subservient, weak, lacking skill, knowledge and wisdom to find the truth within themselves but to seek it from someone else. Jesus contradicts himself. He says the kingdom is within but then says he is the only way. Well, is it within him or within us? It is that loophole that gave the church its stranglehold on humanity for centuries leading it destroy other faiths, cultures and indigenous peoples worldwide. It is now leading itself into self destruction which is good.
The bible itself is a slow killer of the human spirit. Its been the tool of destruction for centuries where war mongers held a bible in one hand and a sword in the other. Its been the foundation of slavery for nothing in the bible considers slavery a sin. There is no greater sin than to enslave another. Killing them would be a lessor sin. Many bible thumpers have done a pretty good job killing others. If they can't be enslaved, just kill them. If you can't kill them, condemn them. That negative and toxic ideology is now turned upon itself.
[Edited on 6/4/2008 9:09 AM]
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| Jun 4 @ 9:14 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,116
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Yikes!!!
Was this an actual post by a non-Christian-in-the-Buddhist-forum???
"Please note: 12knots is an angry, disruptive bully and not representative of the Buddhist community. He causes as many disruptions on the buddhist threads as he causes on any forum he goes on, including the christian ones. His primary purpose is to inflame arguments and disrupt conversations. That is the extent of his "spiritual development." He's on MD because there is so little moderation here that he can get away with behavior that is not tolerated in regular non-MD moderated buddhist discussion groups. "
Wow! That's amazing to me.
Jankia, was that post noting Mr knot's character found in this forum?
How would you describe the spiritual beliefs of the person making the observation?
Do they come across as someone who is fairly serious about their perception of the spiritual realm? Or are they usually just a person with nothing nice to say about anyone?
I've been taught to always, "Consider the source".
How would you describe the source of this revealing comment?
(Thank you for sharing by the way. You are a gentleman.)
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| Jun 4 @ 9:21 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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How would you describe the spiritual beliefs of the person making the observation?
Do they come across as someone who is fairly serious about their perception of the spiritual realm?
Your idea of the spritual realm is what results from mental distortions. Hardly spritual. Mental pathology is a disease. Delusions are an unreality. Didn't you know that?
As for Knots, he does press hard and just because a fellow Buddhist had a negative comment doesn't mean everything he says is wrong. What your ignorance of right and wrong has shown is that you can't take a statement and break it down to show its wrong. You're intellectually disabled in that way.
Also, look at yourself. Giving advice to young girl its OK to die because she's a Christian and another time stating you'd throw rocks at woman if god told you to. Since you have said you heard voices in your head we can easily see there are a few screws loose up there.
[Edited on 6/4/2008 9:24 AM]
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| Jun 4 @ 9:22 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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ut oh... stand-by... the Wolf pack is back.
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| Jun 4 @ 9:30 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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10 Questions every intelligent Christian must answer I can't get Youtube to work, but if you post the questions, I will take a shot at answering them.
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| Jun 4 @ 9:33 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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No youtube? download firefox....
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| Jun 4 @ 9:34 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,469
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SOC,
Wow! That's amazing to me.
Jankia, was that post noting Mr knot's character found in this forum?
How would you describe the spiritual beliefs of the person making the observation?
Do they come across as someone who is fairly serious about their perception of the spiritual realm? Or are they usually just a person with nothing nice to say about anyone?
Some people, as you should know from experience, cannot control themselves when their religious beliefs are questioned. So just as you, Jankia, Hunt, Bev, Seal and Dixie can only retaliate with personal attacks for the lack of veracity in your dogma, so did the Buddhist that made that remark. He is a nice guy that has much knowledge in Buddhism. He and Knots follow different Budddhist teachings. He couldn't accept the fact that Knots continued to question his beliefs.
Some people can debate beliefs with others by debating the facts, others find it necessary to personally attack their opponent,
Peace
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| Jun 4 @ 9:40 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,116
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hammertime, Jesus said, "the kindom is within" , but He also says "I am the way and the truth and the life." in John 14:6.
He goes on to say, "No one comes to the Father except through me." This is to point out, and hopefully explain to those who are truly seeking, that a complete understanding of the Father is not available to everyone when they are born. A right relationship with the Father is not available to the Natural man, (or woman.)
In order to discover the Way to the Father, every human being needs a Guide on the journey.
We need Jesus to show show us the Way.
In this regard we are sheep. We are guided on our journey through live, and led to a right relationship with our Heavenly Father.
Regardless of how smart/intelligent/wise/self-sufficient/independent we might believe ourselves to be--each of us needs a guide to help us reach salvation + eternal life.
You can try and get there on your own. But you are certain to discover disappointment. 
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| Jun 4 @ 9:44 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,469
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You can try and get there on your own. But you are certain to discover disappointment.
Spoken like christian who is controled by his delusional dogma.
Peace
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| Jun 4 @ 10:01 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,116
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Sail, in an earlier post, you said, "I think I understand what Jankia is saying." But I do not believe you truly do understand.
I believe that by saying, "God himself gives me the information I need about him through what he gave me." Jankia is suggesting that through His everyday experiences, he is able to see God revealed through the common experiences of his everyday life.
Jankia's experiences confirm the things he has heard at the Christian church he attends. Then by combining those lessons with his own everyday experience, a more thorough + complete understanding of God + God's will for his life is gained.
I do not belief that "he honestly believes that he was not influenced that much" , (as you suggest Sail_Dancer.)
Jankia is a humble man. Jankia is not prideful. (Which some of you are completely unable to comprehend.)
I believe he certainly does believe that he was influenced a great deal by the words of the Bible.
But I think that the point Jankia was trying to make is that he is not a great believer in his own natural ability to make sense of God's truth.
Rather, he has chosen to attend a Methodist church to assist him in his understanding.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:09 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,469
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I believe he certainly does believe that he was influenced a great deal by the words of the Bible.
But I think that the point Jankia was trying to make is that he is not a great believer in his own natural ability to make sense of God's truth.
Rather, he has chosen to attend a Methodist church to assist him in his understanding.
I think that Jankia should explain what he meant, I'm sure that it is probably a combination of our views.
Peace
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| Jun 4 @ 10:12 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Jankia is suggesting that through His everyday experiences, he is able to see God revealed through the common experiences of his everyday life.
He sees God revealed, revealed, revealed though experiences of everyday life.... Its just as easy to say I see my mother's wisdom revealed through everyday life or I can see what my professor meant by things I see through everyday life.....
You know the god tag is total bullshit religiosity. Just because you say god means absolutely nothing. Its only a mindset based on indoctrination. You can take the god tag and put Zeus, Allah, Apollo, The Great White Spirit, Pazuzu, or Elvis. You would know better if your head wasn't so deep in the mud. Mud? Is it mud or something that looks like mud?
Jankia's experiences confirm the things he has heard at the Christian church he attends. Thats right, confirmed indoctrination. He was told what to see and he chose to see it. Perhaps since he couldn't think outside the box or think for himself, he had no choice but to see it. If you know how hypnosis and suggestion worked you'd know better but you don't. Its no different than telling a child that you can see dragons in the clouds. They will see it.
Then by combining those lessons with his own everyday experience, a more thorough + complete understanding of God + God's will for his life is gaine Again deluded bullshit. All you're doing is pulling the nonsense together into one pile.
SOC, you're a deluded fool without any kind of logical reasoning whatsoever.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:22 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,116
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Truly a wise response h.
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| Jun 4 @ 10:25 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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SOC demonstrates the weakness of not just Christianity but of all religious sales pitches.
There is no reasoning, logic and never any epistemology in Christianity. None whatsoever. There is blind faith, blind belief in things told to you by your parents, your culture, your schools, your reverends, pastors and ministers.
Who else uses this very vital knowledge of indoctrination? Advertising firms, big business, Wall Street... They make money by convincing you to buy their product and they work very very hard telling you the right words to cause you to open your wallet and invest with them. They make you believe everyone else is wrong or inferior. They make you believe you will get the best service with them. That you will buy the best product from them and you will be happy..... 
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| Jun 4 @ 10:36 AM |
Christianity and its weaknesses |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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One of the best classes I took in college was a particular English class. Its focus was media and advertising, use of language. It taught about weasel words and focused on the career of David Ogilvy....
See your weasels here.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
More complex and modern approaches use things like neurolingustic programming. 
Some more classic examples can be found reading Franz Anton Mesmer. Mesmerism hah ahahaha!!!! Rasputin too..... All fun guys who used all the tricks and methods religion uses all over the place. Christianity is the dirtiest user of these deceptive methods.....
Go back and carefully and slowly read SOC's post. You will see how the mind being so dull and deluded to believe almost anything it is told. SOC actually shows us the mechanism of how one assumes such beliefs. Don't miss it.
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