| Jun 21 @ 12:11 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Well, I am sorry that you aren't able to share in the wealth of encouragement available Hammertime. 
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| Jun 21 @ 12:14 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Good post Angel. 
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| Jun 21 @ 12:20 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Thanks Servant! 
Another thought too is, if anyone knows the hard work it takes to grow a grape vineyard, understands of the much caretaking and patience of a successful fruit bearing vineyard. Even the long patient wait of the first planting can take about 3 years or so for full maturity before it bears the fullness of it's fruit. Isn't that a coincidence that even Jesus' mission was about 3 years or so..
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| Jun 21 @ 12:44 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned If the man is not growing from the true vine, but is of another, the branch receives not the proper nourishments of that vine then dries up and can not bear any fruitation; it is useless and serves no ornate purpose.
Actually this interpretation is a thinly veiled condemnation of any other vine growing anywhere else as vines do in real life. The analogy is religious bigotry that is customary in Christian dogma. What this means is all other religions and faiths are useless and serve no ornate purpose. Hunt would say they are demonic. Same difference. This is the sick ideology that makes Christians condemn all others in the world around them as history has shown and the reason why so many have died at their hands and why even today there are psychopaths willing to throw rocks from voices speaking to them in their psychotic minds. All derived from fables that have never been truth, that is, actual fact with veracity, evidence and substance. Nothing but blind faith and the worship of death, not a living philosophy but of a deranged hope based on promises delivered after death. There is no spirituality in such a dark delusion.
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| Jun 21 @ 1:57 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Think I will print and take that one to my next medical meeting....my peers especially the psychologists will really quack up over that one! 
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| Jun 21 @ 6:28 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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^^^^ Religious delusion = relusion.
Bad case of denial.
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| Jun 21 @ 7:57 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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If the man is not growing from the true vine, but is of another
Are there false vines in the garden? Did someone put some artificial plastic vines in the dirt to fool people? What is a true vine. Are there false vines growing all over the place too?
If only Christians can tell the difference between true and false, between fact and fiction, between actual events and fables....
[Edited on 6/21/2008 8:00 AM]
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| Jun 21 @ 7:58 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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Think I will print and take that one to my next medical meeting....my peers especially the psychologists will really quack up over that one!
PEERS? I was told that you were a medical secratary.
Just sayin'
BTW Poison Ivy is a vine......
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| Jun 21 @ 8:07 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Well Goose, once upon a time we had had a Christian counselor telling everyone she was a psychologist yet had no education, no degree, no credentials, no license in psychology. I'm just wondering if considering one's self a peer may be stretching it a bit too? To consider one's self someone of the same vine and branches so to speak of a professional body, organization or guild? Thats like a tutor saying they are an educator or someone who is friends with an actor saying they're an actor too when they don't have a sag card.
from dictionary.com
peer1 Audio Help /p??r/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[peer] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person of the same legal status: a jury of one's peers.
2. a person who is equal to another in abilities, qualifications, age, background, and social status.
Sometimes you find these fellows who have nothing to do hanging around the police station or fire station. They're called buffs. Sometimes they carry scanners with them and listen in and show up at fires and such. They fantasize they're real cops or firemen. Buffs. I suppose its possible a few mental patients even fantasize they're actual psychiatrists.
[Edited on 6/21/2008 8:13 AM]
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| Jun 21 @ 9:21 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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pamdemonium
Posts: 14,546
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A little on...a little off topic.
<------Catholic. Sometimes recovering from it, sometimes embracing it, and sometimes, mixing a little of what I've learned on life's journey with it.
okay...so, I think extremists of any sort can be dangerous...but just wanted to add...I found myself feeling like this was a little too close to my bones.
As a child, my neighborhood church...St. Charles, had the most beautiful
altar. With a white castle, that would make Cinderella weep. And the arch
above the altar had beautiful celtic carved letters that said..."I am the vine,
you are the branches." I have fond memories of those I loved from my
neighborhood as a little girl, attending that church. Sitting there, listening
to Father Foley, the tiny man with cradle cap and a soft voice, going through
the mass. It was family to me.
And years later, when my sister's firstborn was studying for his First Holy
Communion...bringing home a drawing, based on the words carved above
the altar, "I am the vine and you are the branches."
And now...it seems soiled somehow.
Why does everyone feel the need to be right, and turn belief into something
higher than themselves into a contest? No one wins in these religion threads.
They bring out the worst in all of us.
I'm done. Done ranting. And I still love you guys. And girls.
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| Jun 21 @ 9:29 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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pamdemonium
I'm totally aware of the story of the vine. Yet when its used as a way to disparage all other faiths (other vines) as being untrue and false then the Christian analogy is just being used as a form of hate and divisiveness.
With a white castle, that would make Cinderella weep I've eaten at White Castles and what that does to the digestion system would make anyone weep.
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| Jun 21 @ 9:32 AM |
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Loreli
Posts: 20,319
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 Pammy
The worst ones are the ones that do not see it in themselves.
Religion is a PERSONAL CHOICE.
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| Jun 21 @ 9:35 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Religion is a PERSONAL CHOICE. For who? For thousands of years people have died resisting forced indoctrination. Was it a personal choice for Native Americans? For south sea islanders? For Europeans during the Inquisitions? For those who claim personal choice forget their ancestors were murdered when they resisted. The vine transmits poison.
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| Jun 21 @ 9:37 AM |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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I'm totally aware of the story of the vine. Yet when its used as a way to disparage all other faiths (other vines) as being untrue and false then the Christian analogy is just being used as a form of hate and divisiveness.
People need to adjust their way of thinking and let others speak too. Thousands of years people have listened to the religious clap trap and now we should move on with the age of reasoning and rationalization.
There are unlimited and more beautiful things in life where we concur for all. Lets find them!
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| Jun 21 @ 9:55 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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There are unlimited and more beautiful things in life where we concur for all. Lets find them!
Peace
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| Jun 21 @ 10:05 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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pamdemonium
Posts: 14,546
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I never took it as a we're better than you thing. I took it as a happy part of my roots, and that That He was a good man...and we should go out there and be good too. That's all.
Hammer...never eaten white castle burgers. I'm a white wafer kind of girl.
So...I guess what I'm saying is...it's all well and good till it hits close to your own home. This thread did...just a little. It's kind of like going to another country and hearing them say how much they despise Americans. Suddenly, you realize how much you love your country.
So, (am I really saying this?  ) in Hunt's defense...maybe he just feels like this all the time. Like it's too close to his roots...his bones...his home.
No...I don't agree with his delivery and extremists scare the crap out of me...but I see a smidgen more where he's coming from.
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| Jun 21 @ 10:21 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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I'm seeing the three blind men and the elephant again...Knots and Hammer seem to see all religion as claptrap, Hunt, Angel and SOC see anything except scripture as being false. I still think of everything, Buddhism, Christianity and everything else as different peoples' perceptions of the total truth - and I don't believe for a second that any of them, or mine, even come close to that truth.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't stop looking for more of it, or even trying to understand each others' perceptions...but they're all going to be filtered through each of our life experiences.
Pammy - you think of Father Foley, I think of another priest, who abused my brother and a lot of other kids, who died in a boating 'accident'...different filters.
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| Jun 21 @ 10:25 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Knotty said:
There are unlimited and more beautiful things in life where we concur for all. Lets find them!
Beautiful words.
There are so many wonderful things we can discover and learn.
And not having a religion is also a choice.
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| Jun 21 @ 10:27 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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pamdemonium
Posts: 14,546
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Exactly! 
Who the hell knows what's right - -until we know? We live, we learn, we go out every day, do the best we can, and use our best judgement. There is no right or wrong. So, this is, in a nutshell, what I just don't get about the R&S forums.
And Heaven, sorry about your brother. I know priests who favored little boys, too. It's sickening. Accidents happen. I guess at that point, you're taking scripture from a pedophile, right? 
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| Jun 21 @ 10:45 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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you're taking scripture from a pedophile, right?
Exactly - and the icing on the cake was that after he died, they named the confraternity hall after him, where the teens congregated. I loved the nuns though, they were great. I honestly don't think that had anything to do with my rejection of scripture though, that was just based on reading both the old and the new testaments and shaking my head at the differences. That's also when I started thinking about the fact that the perception of God was based on the customs of the time, not the other way around...and led me to wonder why my personal perception should be any less accurate than a desert dweller who lived thousands of years ago - I can share a common view with Jesus' teachings, but when someone tells me that a woman found not to be a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death, I'm sorry, I have to reject that as being the inerrant word of God. God doesn't change his rules, men do.
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