| Jun 21 @ 10:47 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Heaven said:
I honestly don't think that had anything to do with my rejection of scripture though, that was just based on reading both the old and the new testaments and shaking my head at the differences.
There is just so much difference in the two and despite people's attempts, they cannot be melded together.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:29 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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I can share a common view with Jesus' teachings, but when someone tells me that a woman found not to be a virgin on her wedding night should be stoned to death, I'm sorry, I have to reject that as being the inerrant word of God. God doesn't change his rules, men do.
I understand that it has all been missed from the beginning in the Covenant Marriage between God and Israel at Mount Sinai. And God proved them unfaithful to this marriage by committing adultry and fornification through their adoption of other lovers. By decree, God divorced Israel, but did not put her away as he hates divorce and once married, always married. Without this knowlege of the scriptures, one will not understand the others.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:40 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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pam:
So...I guess what I'm saying is...it's all well and good till it hits close to your own home. This thread did...just a little. It's kind of like going to another country and hearing them say how much they despise Americans. Suddenly, you realize how much you love your country.
It does do that but look at the positive side. Sooner or later we need to face the truth if we are going to develop in good light. I am an arrogant Englishman from Oxford. I had to learn in my worldly travels there are the best of the best everywhere *sigh  but I still see "Oxford" Notepaper in Walmart! And sometimes a little picture of my home town.
So, (am I really saying this? ) in Hunt's defense...maybe he just feels like this all the time. Like it's too close to his roots...his bones...his home.
Yes, sure he does. And it is only human nature to feel sorry for him.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:42 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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What I found sad was Hunt's continue insistence of the "hatred" he found here.
I never hated him. I don't think anyone hated him.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:47 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Heaven:
I'm seeing the three blind men and the elephant again...Knots and Hammer seem to see all religion as claptrap, Hunt, Angel and SOC see anything except scripture as being false. I still think of everything, Buddhism, Christianity and everything else as different peoples' perceptions of the total truth - and I don't believe for a second that any of them, or mine, even come close to that truth.
Not for me. "Religiosity" is clap trap. Religion in our combined reality is a tool to seek understanding of the world about us including the supernatural world which religion floods over and into. If you really did know ALL these religions then you would know which are closer to the truth than not.
Pammy - you think of Father Foley, I think of another priest, who abused my brother and a lot of other kids, who died in a boating 'accident'...different filters.
The Fleet Padre on my ship had to go in front with me to see the Captain when I "Had to" request "Change of Religious Denomination." He was kind and understanding and in no way whatsoever attempted to change my mind and stay within Christianity. Excellent fellow.
Late in years my village Vicar was an ex-Merchant Seaman navigating Officer. he would hide in the neighboring village pub to have a few drinks.
Its these stories whether good or bad brings perspective towards the truth of success of not of a religion or mans condition.
[Edited on 6/21/2008 12:35 PM]
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| Jun 21 @ 12:10 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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TRABADOUR
Posts: 5
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Double posted
[Edited on 6/21/2008 12:15 PM]
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| Jun 21 @ 12:12 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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TRABADOUR
Posts: 5
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Hammertime
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
If the man is not growing from the true vine, but is of another, the branch receives not the proper nourishment's of that vine then dries up and can not bear any fruition; it is useless and serves no ornate purpose.
Actually this interpretation is a thinly veiled condemnation of any other vine growing anywhere else as vines do in real life. The analogy is religious bigotry that is customary in Christian dogma. What this means is all other religions and faiths are useless and serve no ornate purpose. Hunt would say they are demonic. Same difference. This is the sick ideology that makes Christians condemn all others in the world around them as history has shown and the reason why so many have died at their hands and why even today there are psychopaths willing to throw rocks from voices speaking to them in their psychotic minds. All derived from fables that have never been truth, that is, actual fact with veracity, evidence and substance. Nothing but blind faith and the worship of death, not a living philosophy but of a deranged hope based on promises delivered after death. There is no spirituality in such a dark delusion.
Of all the answers here I found this one most interesting.
I find it very interesting that you see in Gods word where
The true vine produces true growth, and that it does not
attach itself to other forms of religion. Or allow them to
attach themselves to the truth. It shows a level of awareness
of the true meaning of Gods word even though it also shows
an anger and disrespect for the truth. We are all entitled to our opinions.
That doesn't make them right. Opinions are kind of like choices,
they can effect the way we perceive things to be. As a Christian
I like to use the bible as my basis for truth and give opinions second place.
All in all very interesting comments.
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| Jun 21 @ 12:49 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Of all the answers here I found this one most interesting.
I find it very interesting that you see in Gods word where
The true vine produces true growth, and that it does not
attach itself to other forms of religion. As soon as you mentioned god you're talking about religion....
There is no such thing as a true vine and true growth. Its either a vine or it isn't. It can be a good vine or a bad one but never a true or a false vine unless you mean false by that is artificial like plastic. Nothing in nature is false. Since you use the bible to find truth which is your opinion, then your narrowed view of the world could only be defined by what fables, metaphors and allegories you've read. Worse would be that you believe stories are actual events. The bible would have you believe the world is flat and is only 6000 years old, that an ass can speak and the dead people come back to life. We know thats false and pretty much a lie at this point but the stories are nice allegories.
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| Jun 21 @ 5:21 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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TRABADOUR
Posts: 5
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The true vine is that which flows from the spirit of life it self.
Straight from the tree of life. From the God of all creation himself.
That which flows from the throne of God is not religion.
That which is created by men and bent and twisted to fit their personal
opinions and lifestyles is religion. It Is created by men. That which flows
from the true vine is that which a personal relationship with God stems from.
Frankly almost all of the denominations that claim to be Christian have flaws
when balanced and weighed according to the bible. Some of these flaws are
as wide as the grand canyon others are very small. yet all are a separation from truth to benefit the conscience of man.
Many of these religions are no different then many religions outside the Christian faith in that they Lift up self and do not encourage spiritual growth.
That which flows from the true vine takes its strength from God. The Created was never meant to lift himself up and disrespect his creator.
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| Jun 21 @ 5:39 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Hunt what denomination is the good one for you? Considering you are saying all other Christian denominations arent the right ones?
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| Jun 21 @ 5:56 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Knotty I haven't said Their is a right one or a wrong one. I would say their are certain things that need to be looked for in finding the right church to attend.
1. Does the church encourage growth in a personal relationship with God?
2. Is the Bible taught as the word of God and not as a companion to other books that are given equal importance. The Bible is God's word given to man.
3 Do you feel the presence of God in the teaching, preaching and worship that is found in the church in question. This is a witness that you are in a good place
4 Does the church lift up men above other men in importance giving them power over other men's lives. if so this can be abused. True growth should be taught.
5 The Love of God and of our fellow man should be top priority and should be
found in the house of God and outside of it.
No Church is perfect and if it is when I go their it will no longer be perfect. Is God lifted up in praise and honor? This is a very good question to ask ones self. if we keep our eyes on Jesus and focus on his word and will for our lives he will point us in the right direction.
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| Jun 21 @ 7:03 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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In my humble opinion those are all excellent points Hunt4luv.
By the way, I'm glad you've returned. 
I believe the teachings of Jesus Christ should carry the most weight among any of the teachings at any Christian church.
If something being taught is not an accurate reflection of His teachings + beliefs, then I think it might be time to start looking at other churches. 
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| Jun 21 @ 7:27 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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SOC,
If something being taught is not an accurate reflection of His teachings + beliefs, then I think it might be time to start looking at other churches.
And what is an accurate reflection of Jesus' teachings?
Salvation?
Once saved, always saved?
That he is god?
That non-christians will be eternally damned?
That our physical bodies will be resurected?
That the Sabath should be changed to Sunday?
That he was born of a virgin?
That man is evil at his core?
That creationism or intelligent design is the way man was created?
That hell exists?
That you will find god's kingdom in the sky?
What exactly did Jesus teach?
Peace
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| Jun 21 @ 7:50 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Matthew 7:6-- "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."
THAT is something that Jesus taught.
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| Jun 21 @ 7:53 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Jankia
Posts: 9,171
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What exactly did Jesus teach? He taught honesty to those that knew him and wrote about him.
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| Jun 21 @ 9:15 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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SOC & Jankia,
What about all the dogma beliefs that I cited? Do you really believe that they were taught or told by Jesus?
Your response was a cop out.
Peace
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| Jun 21 @ 10:28 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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And what is an accurate reflection of Jesus' teachings?
Jesus said to search the scriptures, for they testified of him who was to come.
Read John, chapter 5.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:08 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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"Your response was a cop out."
But it makes way more sense to toss a few pearls of wisdom in a post before you sail, and watch as you twist them beyond being able to recognize them anymore.
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| Jun 21 @ 11:28 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Now Servant, you are a crack up!
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| Jun 21 @ 11:59 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Angel,
Jesus said to search the scriptures, for they testified of him who was to come. The NT had not been written when Jesus said anything, so he meant the OT.
So what is your point?
Peace
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