| Jun 23 @ 11:50 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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You have just turned our discussion from a debate to false accusation and twisting of words. I refuse to have a discussion with a man who cannot use Honor in his methods of debate.
Those are your words Hammer. In the future, If we are to have a discussion try truthful means of conversation. Even when you are getting your butt whipped.
Good night.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:10 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The vine serves rotten fruit. No healings for soldiers. No new arms. No new legs. No new eyes. All they get is prosthetics so they can hobble around the rest of their lives. What god allows his children to suffer like that? What miracle? No miracles at all. Useless prayers to pacify the helpless and hopeless. The helpless and the hopeless can only make feeble excuses for why they got no miracles. Sad isn't it? A faith based on fiction and delusion that uses real life tragedy to sell its dogma that does no good at all.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:49 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hunt4luv
Posts: 1,234
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Wars are not of God. they are the product of greedy and selfish men in control of the lives of other men. God is love. Yes sometimes evil has to be stamped out.
The hurt and pain of this world is the fault of men and their disobedience to God.
Bad Choices bring bad consequences. And you want God to fix all the fruits of disobedience while disobedience and greed pride and selfishness rule the day?
Sometimes people suffer due to other peoples bad choices. Man brings his own troubles on himself. Some men such as yourself want to blame those troubles on God. Sadly this is the only time they acknowledge he exists.
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| Jun 24 @ 2:15 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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The vine serves rotten fruit.
Guess you never have picked fruit or eaten any fruit 
No healings for soldiers. No new arms. No new legs. No new eyes. All they get is prosthetics so they can hobble around the rest of their lives.
I have worked with many Paraplegics including soldiers, how many have you "worked" with? They have more faith in God then I do in my little finger. In fact, they were one of my experienced turning points into believing.
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| Jun 24 @ 10:05 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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No healings for soldiers. No new arms. No new legs. No new eyes. All they get is prosthetics so they can hobble around the rest of their lives. What god allows his children to suffer like that? Well, if mircales were common place, then they wouldn't be miracles. Also, where do you draw the line. Gor regorws my arm, is obligated to regrow your hand? He regrows your hand, is he obligated to regrow someone else's finger. Pretty soon, everytime you get a splinter or a speck in your eye, you snap your fingers and God comes running. It just doesn't work that way. this is Earth, not heaven. Heaven of the place of no suffering. That's not what this place is about.
What miracle? No miracles at all. Useless prayers to pacify the helpless and hopeless. The helpless and the hopeless can only make feeble excuses for why they got no miracles. Anyone who make excuses makes a mistake. God is not a candy bar machine. You just can't punch a button and expect your selection to come out.
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| Jun 24 @ 10:08 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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Angel54214
Posts: 14,074
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Lance... 
Also If God wanted robots and puppets he would have made them without a heart and brain and not made them of flesh.
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| Jun 24 @ 11:06 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Hammertime, a similar example is what God is doing in my life.
Though He is capable of having performed the miracle of healing me entirely at one time. He did not.
Rather, by drawing out His healing to a much longer period of time, He has been able to accomplish something else. (Which would not have been accomplished if He had healed me entirely all at once.)
If His healing had been over + done with in a matter of moments, His goodness would not be as deeply imprinted on my mind.
Sure I would have been extremely grateful for a little while, perhaps even for a few years. Maybe forever.
But would the same number of people have become aware of His power + goodness? (As illustrated through the healing they have witnessed with their own eyes.)
Even you Hammertime...if He had healed me entirely 22 years ago, do you truly believe you would have heard my story? (Not that I am so delusional as to believe that through my words you're going to be led to salvation.)
But do you truly believe I still would be talking this particular miracle 22 years later??
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| Jun 24 @ 11:27 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Lance,
Anyone who make excuses makes a mistake. God is not a candy bar machine. You just can't punch a button and expect your selection to come out. You are missing Hammer's point.
Christians say that god performs miracles in response to prayers. Why is it that the miracles that are claimed not noticably verified? These so called miracles could have been natural healings or recoveries. Isn't it funny that over lets say the last 1000 years, not one claimed miracle regrew a limb? Could it be that the reason for that is that regrowing a limb would be a real miracle and miracles don't exist?
Peace
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| Jun 24 @ 11:31 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Certainly we can't expect god to heal mental illnesses either because its obvious from soc's post, it hasn't happened. As for the other excuses why god doesn't heal anyone because he's not a candy store is just speaking for god who can't speak for himself. This is what religious people do, they speak for the almighty who isn't mighty enough to speak for himself or even have his own TV show. The fact remains, that no god has never grown a new limb or organ or eye for anyone ever and there are very good reasons for that none of which Christians can't dispute yet Christians do nothing but talk about how god heals everyone they pray for none of which are for anyone who lost an arm, leg, eye, internal organ, or even mentally retarded folk. No prayer ever healed a mentally retarded person to become normal.
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| Jun 24 @ 11:41 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Over 2,000 years ago, God raised 2 people from the dead.
Many people do not believe the miracles that He had reported then.
So why do you belive the report of a miraculously re-grown limb would be more easily believed?
Either a person is able to open their minds to accept things of that nature, or they are not.
By associating this ability with mental aberrations, a person is easily able to justify their non-belief.
But the fact remains that un-belief, dis-belief and non-belief all amount to the same thing.
If some people do not see something with their own eyes, they do not believe it ever took place. 
(And even then, some people have doubts.)
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| Jun 24 @ 11:42 AM |
The Vine and the Branches
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EternalFlame
Posts: 3,624
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Over 2,000 years ago, God raised 2 people from the dead.
Prove it. SHOW ME...and don't use the Bible as a source.
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| Jun 24 @ 11:47 AM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Notice how the mania of delusional people (rotten fruit off the vine) easily gets set off when their pathetic excuses are considered nonsense. Delusions and superstitions are a combination of mental illness and stupidity. More of one, less of the other depending on the state of the individual could actually swing back and forth. The effect remains as blind faith, ignorance, stupidity that results in an inauthentic life filled with fantasy.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:08 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Thanks for your illustrations. 
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| Jun 24 @ 12:17 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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You're welcomed.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:31 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Well, I think the root question is, "if he raised people 2000 years ago, why doesn't he do it today?"
Obviously, unless we have a time machine, we can't show anyone what happened 2000 years ago.
If he raises people today, I have not seen it, or known of it from a credible source.
I really don't know why there are less miralces today than back then. It could be that the ones back then are exaggerated. It could be that, for whatever reason, God just doesn't do them as much as he once did.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:40 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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Christians say that god performs miracles in response to prayers. I can't be held responsible for what other Christians say. Some people professing to be "Christian" are pretty far out there.
I believe prayer can help, but it is not an end all. Just because you oray for it, doesn't mean it is bound tohappen. I believe my brother would be blind in one eye were it not for prayer. As far as the "big ticket" items like raising from the dead, those seem to be very rare, if they happen at all.
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| Jun 24 @ 12:40 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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God retired. He realizes medicine does a better job since people who are clinically dead get resuscitated every day. Medical science is even working on one day growing new limbs. Something amphibians and lizards do all the time. In fact, there are crabs in restaurants who supply claws over and over because they grow back.
Looks like we're just going to have to rely on ourselves by creating our own miracles.
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| Jun 24 @ 1:04 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 835
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God retired. Sounds similair to the "God is Dead" movement in the 50's
He realizes medicine does a better job since people who are clinically dead get resuscitated every day. Medical science is even working on one day growing new limbs. Something amphibians and lizards do all the time. In fact, there are crabs in restaurants who supply claws over and over because they grow back.
Looks like we're just going to have to rely on ourselves by creating our own miracles. All that is well and good. Who is to say that god doesn't work through people.
An old man was sitting on his porch when the flood waters were creeping up. Some guys in a boat came around. The old man told them, "go and save someone who needs it, the Lord will take care of me"
Later he was sitting on the roof as the water came up the side of the house. The guys in the boat came around again to try to help him. He told them, "I don't need your help, the Lord will take care of me"
Later the old man was standing on the chimney with the waters at his feet. The men in the boat came by and tried to coax him in. The old man told them to get lost, and that the Lord would save him.
The waters came higher and the old man drowned.
When he ran into God in heaven he asked "I had my fiath in you, and you let me drown" God shrugged and said "I sent the boat around three times. You wouldn't get in."
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| Jun 24 @ 1:25 PM |
The Vine and the Branches
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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All that is well and good. Who is to say that god doesn't work through people.
Anything that pleases the imagination when it make you feel good. I enjoy such stories too but if god works that way then people just don't have minds of their own. The latter part is certainly true. Too many people really don't have minds of their own but is that proof of god? Perhaps SOC can help us with that answer.
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| Jun 24 @ 1:39 PM |
The Vine and the Branches |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Hmmmm... 
After a little thought, the best I can come-up with is...
Perhaps you better pray for an answer. (Would you believe anyone but yourself??)
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