| Jul 22 @ 9:39 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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I'd love to do that and get a copy of tomorrows newspaper today.
I would just be happy with the lottery number section.
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| Jul 22 @ 2:47 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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 Bev there is not one example of Jesus the man writing anything at all! Every thing contributed to him is hearsay written long after his death and we do not know when he was born or died...Why? hmmm
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| Jul 22 @ 6:28 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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j_goose
Posts: 1,952
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WELCOME TRISH!!!
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| Jul 22 @ 6:44 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,448
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Yes, welcome Trish!!
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| Jul 23 @ 3:07 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Thor, did you see what they said about people who use wiki? I have found it to be very reliable,
I have no problem with Wiki per se. The big issue is that anyone can edit it and write what they want, so it's like anything else, you've got to read more than one source of refference material. I find that for quick look ups, it works, but, like I say, you have to be careful just like everyting else.
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| Jul 23 @ 3:30 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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Wiki is a good reference source but only if you use the listed sources or use other sources to see if the writer slanted their opinion.
But then many reference sources are limited and even definitions within dictionaries are if they are Western saying things about other cultures. The give away are terms such at "it is thought" or the common accepted definition is thought to be.
For example there is no absolute proof of a man called Jesus who did what is contributed to him it is all hearsay without any writings of his own. The same applies to the Buddha since there are no writings of his own.
Another example most sources on philosophical Taoism say Lao Tzu founded it but the real truth is that it existed for thousand of years before him to 5,000 BC and Fu Hsi.
For what purposes did Jesus come? One can only think that he was the invention of the Romans who controlled the church to set the church apart from other religions. It always amuses me that he was born then disappeared in the bible until the last two years where in he was crucified then disappeared again.hmmmm
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| Jul 23 @ 6:40 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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"Do you suppose I came here to keep
peace on earth? I tell you not at all
- but division! For from now on ....
father will be divided against son and
son against father, mother against
daughter and daughter against mother,
daughter-in-law against mother-in-law
and mother-in-law against daughter-in-
law." (Luke 12: 51-53)
"If anyone comes to me and does not
hate his father and mother, wife and
children, brothers and sisters, yes,
and his own life also - he cannot be
my disciple." (Luke 14: 26-27)
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| Jul 23 @ 10:40 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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For what purposes did Jesus come
To tap Mary Magdelene's ass and spread the message of God!
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| Jul 24 @ 3:06 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,539
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Bev,
YES, the devil is a counterfeiter and he knew what was prophesied to the Jewish peoples .
This is so clearly part of the christian dogma. In the Hebrew tradition he was portrayed as an adversary or worse and accuser who only acted under the specific direction of Yahweh or Jehovah.
Research will show where the source of todays christian satan derives and can be found without a search in Wiki. I believe he was first given hoens, then wings, and had control over the weather. With the church's help, he became more more personified into what we scare each other with today. If we will notice our thought practices the later defined satan has been placed all the way back to fit the creature who was written to tempt Jesus in the desert.
In the early priest lines of the hebrews, they had 7 priests of light, matching the seven lights on the minorah, and seven demon priests to match them. This can possibly derive from the battle between light and darkness, offered by Mazda Ahura, Mithras procreator that can be found back 1500BC in the Levant or 2500-3500BC in Asia around India.
The hebrew community/patriarchal structure holds place for seven angels...even the idea of the father, the son, and the spirit of the father and the son can be found within it.
It only took a new interpretation of these old structures by people more and more distant from the original Jewish forms, as the cult of Jesus followers were less influenced by knowledge of the old, that a new sounding story about these concepts would bubble forth.
It is more likely that the christian devil is the "counterfeit" and not the "counterfeiter". With the help of the Eastern church stories, the western church found tales about a devil that superceded the original nature of the wise serpent in the garden.
Many of today's church members have been told little of the history of the origins of beliefs and practices, and even finding them in history, the old teachings of the church hold sway.
If today's christians read the writings if Iraneus, a late second century bishop of Lyon, and early church father, they would call him a blasphemer and heretic. Until it is read, we can remain believing he was a shepherd just interested in providing the teachings of Jesus to needy sheep. Most have no idea where the idea of the shepherd derives, other than what they assume from reading the bible and have been told by their clergy.
In the old days ignorance can be understood...today it is a choice.
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| Jul 24 @ 6:11 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Did you ever stop to think that since we all came from the same garden, that other cultures would have the same story?
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| Jul 24 @ 7:38 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Thats true uncrazy, Satan took on a personal form to create fear and dogma.. Why was it necessary to create and personify an evil being when evil already exists? To simplify evil? The same can be said of a man god too. Simple minds need simple icons to easily focus because any other way requires some mindfulness and thought.
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| Jul 24 @ 1:23 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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Lets go back to the basic question asked about the proof that he existed? Quote me any text that he wrote himself, quote me anything he reportedly said by someone who knew him personally.
Was he a Shepard NO
Was he a fisherman NO
He supposedly followed in his fathers trade that of a stone mason but then again all that is hearsay also.
In fact almost the entire NT is filled with he said she said, innuendo, myths from earlier times and hearsay including Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
You will not find the answers in Israel either there too busy with making money from tourists including where he was born (if), where he was baptized (if) it is hearsay also.....
Christianity was not a independent religion it was a state sponsored and controlled religion. Of course you Christians completly trust government don't you?
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| Jul 24 @ 4:04 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,539
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Bev,
Yes, I have taken time to think. Much of what became Judaism was borrowed from the cultures near where they were located. Much influence from Babylon, as the scribes had access to the local libraries which were some of the most extensive at the time. The babylonian captivity in the 500BC period is the likely time for final assembly of the the OT histories.
Data repeats in the Torah, patriarchs are combined and eras overlap one another. The first two dynastic lines off Adam are likely inverted to be out of sequence. The creation story matches closely to Elisha Enush, a story 1000-1500 years older than Genesis, and one even predating Elisha Enush by as much as 1000 years.
If we look in proverbs and psalms we can see components of Elisha Enush dropped from the Genesis story. Perhaps other similarities showed up because they were based on earlier Egyptian texts. It seems more likely that stories were retold with modifications to link the story to the teller and not to the historical source.
Other stories were told that conceal history, not reveal it. By thinking, I have come to see that there are two Davids decribed in the bible separated by some 400 years, and two gaps exist that are seldom addressed.
The symbols and rituals in todays church are composites of earlier symbols and rites. I realize that the bible doesn't cover it, but at one time the cross form with equal side and top/bottom legs was considered a heresy, along with round churches. Without history we tend to shift back later additions to earlier history.
A silly example is to take the crucifix worn by the clergy and nuns with Jesus on the cross, and slide it back into the early church figues until we have them worn in the artwork depicting Paul, Peter, Magdalene and the Mother Mary wearing them on cords around their necks and waists. Jesus on a cross wasn't a symbol until the 5th century.
I have actually found a copy of a pharoah wearing a crucifix, but it predates christianity by 1000 years. I imagine this would fit with the Ethiopian and Coptic Egyptian ideas and stories that link the start of christianity to Adam...how convenient and easy to grant oneself a history.
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| Jul 24 @ 4:32 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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LaughTillYaPuke
Posts: 1,822
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Supurb post!!!  
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| Jul 24 @ 5:18 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I have actually found a copy of a pharoah wearing a crucifix, but it predates christianity by 1000 years. I imagine this would fit with the Ethiopian and Coptic Egyptian ideas and stories that link the start of christianity to Adam...how convenient and easy to grant oneself a history.
The cross as seen on some churches appears to have a circle. That is not a man on the cross but a symbol of SUN (not Son) worship. Its a pagan symbol representing the zodiac. Jesus represents the SUN (not the Son) and his 12 disciples represents the 12 constellations. 12 is everywhere in the bible.
12 tribes if Israel
12 sons of Jacob.
12 Judges of Isreal
12 great Patriarchs
12 Prophets in the OT
12 Kings of Israel
12 Princes of Israel.
Jesus is the Sun who dies every night and is born again every morning. The Sun of God. The light of the world. The Risen Savior is Jesus(Sun, not son).
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| Jul 24 @ 5:30 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Lol, un, and I could wear a fish, a butterfly, or a dove and today it would be symbolic of the Lord and Christianity, but it wasn't during the early days.
History the same, of course it is, we all came from Adam and Eve. Then you have to consider Cain who was cast out.
Conjecture about two Davids, you know. I can find nothing to support that. You want to give us your theories and how you came to them?
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| Jul 24 @ 5:42 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Jesus represents the age of Pisces. He feeds the multitudes with two fish. He meets two fishermen at the start of his ministry in Galilee. The symbol of Pisces on the Zodiac is two fish. Jesus assumed birth date is the start of the age of Pisces.
The bible is book of astrological myth. Jesus is the Sun. <><
The <>< Jesus fish is nothing by symbol of the age of Pisces.
Jesus says the last Passover will be the end of the age. The new Age is Aquarius. Luke 22:10, a man meet you bearing a pitcher of water. The Water Bearer, zodiac symbol of Aquarius.
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| Jul 24 @ 6:55 PM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,539
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Bev,
On the two Davids I have written of it in the threads here. I will seek it out and repost for you to read.
On the icons that can be worn to show allegiance to an idea or mental leaning...the mark of Cain and the Seal of Solomon are both interesting. As far as Cain being cast out, his line didn't fair to badly in the end. But speaking to much about him and his wife from the land of Nod does create a crisis within the interpretation of the hebrew biblical genesis.
The story has been told proceeding off of Seth, perhaps he was the origin of the Egyptian god Set, lord of the desert.
Cain's line and Seth's both produce an Enoch.
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| Jul 25 @ 8:23 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Hammer, the fish sign symbolizes that Jesus was a fisherman of men, not an astrological sign, lol. The butterfly symbolizes freedom, the dove symbolizes peace, the cross symbolizes salvation for us. Now one or any of those could have been worn as a symbol of anything else over the years, who knows?
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| Jul 25 @ 8:28 AM |
For what purposes did Jesus come |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Uncrazy, you just proved a point. Because, according to Christianity, we all came from one source, and that source knew God, the stories would be similar, the values would be similar. Since there is no date or dating for the Garden of Eden, then all the accusations that so and so had this and so and so had this, simply lead us back to the garden and one God, one Creator. You know Jesus was prophesied in the Garden by God. So, any copy they had of him came from the Israelites and their beliefs.
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