| Jul 23 @ 11:12 AM |
Assuming the authority of God
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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Yeah I know but then you got to pick and choose whats good and what isn't.
Of course I pick and choose!
Deut. and Levi. were clearly God talking to the Jews otherwise I wouldn't shave, not eat my baby back ribs, not get tats, and be damned if I did. Christians weren't around at the time of Deut. and Levi.
There are only twelve laws that Christians are expected to follow:
The Ten Commandments which describe man's relationship with man and God and make sense regardless
And the two NT commandments the Jesus set forth which again are common sense.
Jesus understood the Laws of Moses were too harsh and that a man ould spend his life tip toeing around them and still not be holy.
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| Jul 23 @ 11:13 AM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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A debate about religion works when Christianity is represented by the likes of Lance, Uab, Heaven, etc.
Thanks Goose, but I'm not a Christian, I'm a Deist. I believe in a benign creator, but I don't believe that Christ was divine, nor do I believe that the God of Abraham was anything more than some very fierce desert dwellers' perception of God. I keep going back to the three blind men and the elephant - if there is a God (which I realize can't be proven or disproven) by definition he/she/it has to be far beyond our comprehension, and we obviously perceive everything in terms of our own experience.
If you don't understand it, it's magic...or a miracle. Personally, I have no problem with Bev - we'll never agree, but she's entitled to believe as she wants, even about 2 cars and a truck passing on a two lane bridge. She doesn't call anyone names and follows the forum rules, unlike Hunt. I don't think any of us have the right to tell anyone to get out and stay out - that's the prerogative of the Mods. We're all guests here...how many days now?
UAB - the two laws of Jesus appear in the old testament too - in the Torah it says that all else is commentary.
[Edited on 7/23/2008 11:33 AM]
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| Jul 23 @ 11:13 AM |
Assuming the authority of God
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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When people have such extreme beliefs so deep it consumes them from within, they are suffering and perhaps are so much in denial they are numb to any reality. They fill their minds with religious fantasy and believe their own lies. They don't have a foothold on reality because life has dished out bad things to them and they can't cope very well. Religion is an escape from reality just like a drug.
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| Jul 23 @ 11:20 AM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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Hammertime said:
Religion is an escape from reality just like a drug.
Karl Marx said:
Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
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| Jul 23 @ 11:32 AM |
Assuming the authority of God
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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Dictionary.com said:
re·li·gion Audio Help /r?'l?d??n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
Personally I think this should also include the Agnostic and Atheistic religions as well - they're belief systems too. If Buddhism has any formal rituals I'm not aware of them, so if the dictionary considers that a religion, it should also consider atheism a religion.
Going back to the OP - Using religion as a vehicle to satisfy your own selfish agenda of self promotion, and condescension of others, is a blashpemy.
Yep, absolutely. It kind of reminds me of the saying that I'm unique, just like everybody else. When you get to the televangelists though, it's not only blasphemous it's larcenous.
Meant to put this in here, not the earlier post:
UAB - the two laws of Jesus appear in the old testament too - in the Torah it says that all else is commentary
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| Jul 23 @ 11:36 AM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions
Karl Marx was far from being original in this thought. This is the same sentiment from many of the more secular philosophers ever since the Renassiance and before, all the way back to some of the ancient Greeks who espoused rationality and logic over religious dedication to the gods.
He is quite right about it being the sigh of the oppressed. I go into blighted areas sometimes several times a week covering drive by shootings, drug busts and other police involved activities. On just about every corner are little hole in the wall churches, many of them continually opening and closing with different names, some staying vacant for months. Names of churches like "Church of God of Prophecy" or "International House of Prayer for All Peoples" occupy tiny buildings that once belonged to corner stores.
I've never met an atheistic thug.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:04 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Communism under Marx was a Utopian idea that could not be realized because of corruption. Ideally it would be nice if everyone was in the same class as it would be in heaven. Its not very attainable on earth. Some consider Jesus to be a communist. However, China seems to be doing it very well...they are adapting but there is still too much corruption.
Personally I think this should also include the Agnostic and Atheistic religions as well - they're belief systems too. You have to be careful using the word "systems" because that implies an organization, basis and foundation. Atheism could be applied to Christians who don't believe in Zeus. Its not a belief in anything in particular but a non-belief and therefore there is an absence of a position. It has no system since atheists have no particular group that agrees on anything in any organized way. They do agree on many things but of absence, not presence. There are atheists who are just too stupid to belief in even rational things too. All are individuals.
There are also anti-theists, strong and weak atheists, non-theists and the descriptions go on. There is no church of Atheism, no pope or minister or reverend of atheism. There are icons but not leaders. There is no systematic approach to atheism. Another fact is that all babies are atheists. I really doubt they have any system yet.
[Edited on 7/23/2008 12:07 PM]
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| Jul 23 @ 12:06 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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I've never met an atheistic thug.
I've met quite a few thugs that were atheists, though. 
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| Jul 23 @ 12:13 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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So who is qualified to speak for God? What kind of megalomaniacs pretend they get their orders and knowledge from any God? Do they just read it out of a book of fables (The Bible) or do they hear voices telling them what's right and wrong? What goes in in the mind of a person who speaks for their God? Why do we need those people telling us what God wants? Why can God tell us directly? Is this a problem? So in reality, people don't really put their faith in God at all. They put their faith in ancient literature and the people who say they know what it means.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:21 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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God talks to all directly if they open their hearts to listen. 
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| Jul 23 @ 12:23 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Okay, hammer, I should report you for that one. There is NO prescription drug abuse in my family. We don't take meds when we should. I do NOT take amphetamines that the docotors would give me for narcolepsy. There are NO alcoholics in my family, no one even drinks. I have been drunk once in my life and that was as a teen. I was not coming in here but your lies and accusations must be addressed. Who is hypersexual? I have had sex with two men in twenty five years, come on. You are simply a liar and should not address things you know nothing of. Shame on you. If you want to address anything, address it truthfully, that was libel and slander, you know.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:29 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Thank you, heaven, I have a lot of respect for you, you always present your beliefs logically and factually and I DO respect your right to believe as you do. You know that. You don't resort to slamming or slander or sarcasm to get your points across. I know you have to be a very good person.
Like SOC, I have lots of friends who are not Christians, I don't preach to them. I enjoy them as my friends and love them, they have a right to their own beliefs. Contrary to public opinion, I can't convert anyone and am not going to try to. That is not my job, and as much as some of you may disagree, it is simply the work of the Holy Spirit. He convicts whom He chooses.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:34 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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SOC, seal, I respect and care for both of you. I admire both of your faiths. Thank you.
Soc, while I may have more knowledge on one thing, you have more knowledge on lots of other things, that is why we are a part of a body. Some are given one thing, others something else. That makes it awesome, and, NO, no one has it all, can never expect to. SOC is a really, true, Christian man who lives what he believes, and I much admire him.  That is for you, SOC.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:34 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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I've met quite a few thugs that were atheists, though
I think that's a geographic thing, there UAB. The south has always been religious. I don't care how bad a thug is, he probably had a grandma or aunt who instilled religion into him at some point, and of course it's the first thing they run to for legal defense. I covered a case in court just a few months ago, a guy who while shooting at rival scumbags, managed to completely miss his intended target and hit an apartment where his bullet ended up killing a 13 year old girl who was quietly reading in her room.
The family had their pastor speaking on his behalf and praying with them for court leniency. They felt sure the judge would go easy as they prayed so fervently. The judge didn't, instead castigated him about how his life had been wasted as he pursued crime and proceeded to give him the maximum sentence. Life without the possibilty of parole. His girlfriend yelled an obscenity as she fled the courtroom. Guess her faith wasn't so strong. Many of these denominations preach that supernatural miracles happen if your faith is strong enough. I feel sorry for people deluded by such irrationality.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:36 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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What kind of megalomaniacs pretend they get their orders and knowledge from any God?
History is filled with such and it's always been a good tool for dictators. If you can convince people that you speak for the highest authority there can be, you can control them with ease.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:41 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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They do happen, all the time, but I don't think God is going to answer prayers when they are prayed amiss. Do you think that no matter how much I prayed for God to be lenient with Ted Bundy that He would have been so, lol, no, and of course I never prayed for him. I do pray that those people find the Lord before they xecuted or before they die, but I know that God isn't going to be lenient on them. They will reap what they have sown, that is the word. Lol, thor, hammer uses the meglomaniac word because I diagnosed HIM as one a long time ago. I doubt that he even knew the term before then.
Most every Christian, however, can tell you of supernatural answers to their prayers.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:52 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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Thor,
I honestly do believe I get my steering orders from God.
He knows I'd be directionless without Him at the helm.
There's something that guides all of us.
I choose to call that guiding force God.
Others call it penis.
Some money.
And still others power.
I cannot honestly believe I've endured all the shit I've endured unless it was for some higher purpose that He has yet to make me aware of.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:56 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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There you go uab, you got it. Good for you.
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| Jul 23 @ 12:59 PM |
Assuming the authority of God
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Others call it penis.
Some money.
And still others power
I prefer logic and common sense. 
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| Jul 23 @ 1:03 PM |
Assuming the authority of God |
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uab_5
Posts: 2,371
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Now truthfully, how many people, regardless of religious affiliation do you know that possess those traits?
Any of our politicians? The voting process in the US is a matter of faith.
Our school teachers?
The cops and lawyers are PIGS!
Our entire society is driven by faith and guding forces beyond logic and reasoning.
Sorry. I don't put stock in that.
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