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| Jul 31 @ 6:23 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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bevrice
Posts: 11,144
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Most scholars now agree that was the birthday of Jesus. Just watched a special on the ID channel where they prove why that was the date of his birthday and why scholars say it was.
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| Jul 31 @ 8:00 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Oh thats great. Jesus born 6 years Before Christ.  No, that doesn't prove he was born at all because its based on biblical scribbles. Just proves appearances based on the fable.
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| Jul 31 @ 8:12 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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Bev,
And Flintstone enthusiasts know that Fred was born in 2 million B.C. February 2 (Ground Hog Day) that does not make Fred a real person.
Fred's Birthday
Enjoy!
Peace.
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| Jul 31 @ 8:51 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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I'm sorry Sail but thats where I draw the line. Fred was real. Fred is real. He is alive. We know him.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:01 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,180
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Bev...I can understand how scholars might come-up with the actual year of His birth. But how are they able to report the precise day, (with any accuracy.)
As you know, my faith is not dependent on when the Truth entered our world.
My faith is more about how an adoption of the guiding lessons His life produced will impact the world around me.
The lessons as recorded in the Holy Bible.
But still...How could they arrive so precisely as the exact day of His birth? Does it really matter? Isn't it really just a red herring serving to stoke the fires of skeptics?
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| Jul 31 @ 9:05 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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SOC
You have no idea of what truth is when you believe fables are facts. You're just a dreamer who lives in an organized pretend world. The Truth is Jesus is a copied myth from previous pagan man-gods all born of virgins. Thats the truth and its all documented because older fables also told of virgin births.
So your question to Bev is only serves to confabulate fictional accounts in a soup of delusion.
"Its not a lie if you believe it"
-- George Costanza
"Yaaba daabaa doooo"
-- Fred Flintstone
[Edited on 7/31/2008 9:06 AM]
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| Jul 31 @ 9:06 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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Heaveninawildflower
Posts: 15,360
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SOC, I didn't see the special, but the 'proof' that I've read about prior to this was the fact that there's evidence that there would have been a pretty spectacular conjunction of stars at that time that are purported to be the star of Bethlehem.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:10 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The secular account would be about the star Sirius and the three aligned stars to it. We can talk about the dinosaurs in the Triassic period which really happened but then add some myth and fable about a particular dinosaur who spoke. Kind of like a Fred's Dino version of Balaam's ass.
OMG!!! What did I say????  Dino did exist and so did Fred. We know him.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:16 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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LaughTillYaPuke
Posts: 1,822
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From what I just checked out on google (quite quickly I might add) was that this conclusion was reached using astrology.
I find that very interesting. 
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| Jul 31 @ 9:17 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Yes Puke correct. As I said the secular account would be about the star Sirius and the three aligned stars to it. The three stars are known as the Three Kings....
I think a more accurate date would be April 1. You know why.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:25 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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LaughTillYaPuke
Posts: 1,822
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Why yes I do.... 
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| Jul 31 @ 9:25 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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SOC,
As you know, my faith is not dependent on when the Truth entered our world.
My faith is more about how an adoption of the guiding lessons His life produced will impact the world around me.
The lessons as recorded in the Holy Bible. If that were true, we would not be constantly in conflict about the scriptures and what Jesus' message was. The same way you are skeptical that any scholarly man can pinpoint the exact birthdate of Jesus, you should be skeptical about the dogma early christian scholars wove around Jesus. You should be skeptical about the contradictions that exist in the bible also since god doesn't contradict himself.
Did Jesus teach that he was born of a virgin? No!
Did Jesus teach that he was part of a trinity god and equal to his Father? Actually Jesus taught that there is only 'One" god (not three) who is his Father and that the Father is greater than he is.
Will you accept what the bible says is the recorded words of Jesus? No, you won't. You accept the dogma that has been woven around Jesus by men more interested in starting a state religion for Rome.
Think about it.
I suggest that you review all the beliefs that you feel are true and of importance to you. Then trace these beliefs to their origin and determine if these beliefs were actually taught by Jesus or by men whose objective was to build a religion around his teachings. You may be surprised with what you find.
Peace
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| Jul 31 @ 9:27 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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I'm sorry Sail but thats where I draw the line. Fred was real. Fred is real. He is alive. We know him. And when did you become a Creationist? 
Are you a Liberty University graduate?
Peace
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| Jul 31 @ 9:30 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Did Jesus teach that he was born of a virgin? No!
Did Jesus teach that he was part of a trinity god and equal to his Father? Actually Jesus taught that there is only 'One" god (not three) who is his Father and that the Father is greater than he is.
Will you accept what the bible says is the recorded words of Jesus? No, you won't.
Sail,
So called Christianity should be renamed Paulianity. The doctrines you speak of are from the apostle Paul which most churches base the biggest majority of their teachings.
Christ becomes more of a figure head to most churches, a superman. A sort of celstial "king" or "president" with a prime minister doing the actual policy making.
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| Jul 31 @ 9:37 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,601
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So called Christianity should be renamed Paulianity. The doctrines you speak of are from the apostle Paul which most churches base the biggest majority of their teachings. Actually Thor, Paul's teachings were more in line with Gnostic beliefs. Paul never really speaks of Jesus as being a man/god walking the Earth. The virgin birth did not originate in any of his writings.
Much christian dogma was introduced in the writings of Peter and the Gospels. They in turn were used as a basis for the dogma finally approved as the state religion of Rome.
Peace
[Edited on 7/31/2008 10:12 AM]
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| Jul 31 @ 9:54 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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Thor1960303
Posts: 1,887
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Yes, Sail and the one Old Testament scripture that they all love in Malachi 3:10, about tithing, but that's another subject. They like Paul's doctrines alot because they're about church politics. The stuff about keeping women silent and the hatred for homosexuals is found there.
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| Jul 31 @ 11:20 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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And what's up with Paul's "visions". Don't we know what they are? The symptoms are clear. Would it become more obvious if his "visions" were about Fred Flintstone? It makes no difference.
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| Jul 31 @ 11:28 AM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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horizon000
Posts: 942
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I googled this also and found a lot of conflicting information and speculation about this date. The popular dates were between 7 and 4 BC. Bev, would you be able to supply a link or reference to where you got this information and the name of the Authority that proves this please.
Thanks.
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| Jul 31 @ 11:33 AM |
April 17, 6 BC
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yashaenka
Posts: 4,639
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The year of Jesus' birth
Jesus was born while Herod the Great was still living (Matthew 2:1). Wise men appeared in Jerusalem asking about "one who has been born king of the Jews?" Of course, this upset Herod, who had been given the title "King of the Jews" by the Roman Senate. Herod talked to the wise men secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared (Matthew 2:7). The wise men then journeyed to Bethlehem and found Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a house (Matthew 2:11) and they bowed down and worshiped Jesus.
When the wise men did not return to give Herod a report, "Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the wise men. He was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the wise men" (Matthew 2:16).
This tells us that Jesus may have been born two years before the appearance of the wise men and the death of Herod. Herod died the spring of 4 B.C. (according to the Jewish historian, Josephus). Let's assume that the star appeared at Jesus' birth. Let's also assume that Herod was already close to death when the wise men appeared. It was the custom in ancient Israel to count the years of one's age from the date of conception - in other words, when a child is born he is one year old until his first birthday (this is still a practice in some oriental cultures). Therefore, Herod actually killed the children one year old and under according to the way that age is calculated today. This would mean that Jesus had to have been born in 6 B.C. (if Jesus was one year old) or 5 B.C. (if Jesus was under one year and Herod was just being extra careful).
This date for Jesus' birth fits with other Biblical data such as Jesus being "about thirty years old" when He began his ministry (Luke 3:23). From evidence given to us in John 2:20 about the construction of the temple, we know Jesus' ministry began in A.D. 26. Counting forward from 6 B.C. to A.D. 26 (one year has to be subtracted because there is no year zero) would make Jesus 31 years old when he began his ministry -- that is, about thirty years old. Counting forward from 5 B.C. to A.D. 26 would make Jesus 30 years old when he began his ministry. The birth years of 5 or 6 B.C. also fit with the best date for the crucifixion, that is A.D. 30. Personally I opt for the 5 B.C. date, because I assume the wise men would want to come at once and the time for a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem takes only four months.
When was Jesus born? Nothing is absolutely certain, because we are dealing with implications and assumptions, but a good guess from the Scriptures and history is September 29, 5 B.C. The moral of the story is, if it's in the Bible, you can take it to the bank. If it's not in the Bible,-- and December 25th is not,-- then you're taking your chances.
For much more on this: http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm
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| Jul 31 @ 12:07 PM |
April 17, 6 BC |
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horizon000
Posts: 942
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Thanks Yash,
When was Jesus born? Nothing is absolutely certain, because we are dealing with implications and assumptions, but a good guess from the Scriptures and history is September 29, 5 B.C. The moral of the story is, if it's in the Bible, you can take it to the bank. If it's not in the Bible,-- and December 25th is not,-- then you're taking your chances.
This is pretty much the kind of thing I found when I looked. 
I would like to see the proof as to why most scholars now agree to the 17th of April being the birthdate of Jesus.
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