| Aug 7 @ 9:00 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Why wont ANY Christian answer these questions:
God kills "Nations" doesnt he?
God "...puts to death..." doesnt he?
God will do anything to have control?
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| Aug 7 @ 9:16 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Why wont ANY Christian answer these questions Because they created this god in man's image but will not admit it.
God kills "Nations" doesnt he? The "God of Abraham" created by man in man's image kills nations. Any supreme force that may exist, would possess infinite wisdom and would not have to rely on violence to guide man in his spiritual growth.
God "...puts to death..." doesnt he? Again believers in the "God of Abraham" put people to death in their false god's name.
God will do anything to have control? If a supreme force or being exists, he would have no need to force his control over mankind. Mankind would be no threat to his infinite wisdom and strength.
The problem with the concept of God (especially the "God of Abraham") is that the people that created this god, created it in man's image and likeness. So the resulting god has all of man's faults and limitations.
Peace
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| Aug 7 @ 9:16 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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The people who invented this god come from a barbaric civilization. The Sumerians were barbaric and their gods set the mold for the god of Abraham. Any god created can only reflect the civilization that created it. So god is made in the image and likeness of those people. A vicious god means the people are also vicious. Its the reason why its adherents are willing to carry out the most barbaric acts against their neighbors and their own children.
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| Aug 7 @ 11:34 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Good posts guys but where are the Christians on this one?????
Are they suffering from denials?
Fearful to face the truths of their own teachings?
Do some of these poignant questions wake them up from their dream world?
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| Aug 7 @ 7:24 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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Gallows_Humor
Posts: 7,801
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Why wont ANY Christian answer these questions:
because they don't apply to todays world..
God kills "Nations" doesnt he? \wrong tense...when is the last time that "God" killed a nation?
God "...puts to death..." doesnt he? again...wrong tense..when is the last time that God put anyone to death?
God will do anything to have control?
seems to me you should rethink the definition of ..."free will..."
and to re-answer the first question...because it is a pointless thread .. you have covered this ad nauseam ... 
remember that Christians deal with the new testament, (and as imperfect as it is.. it is still comparable to yours (pl) ).....not the old....
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| Aug 7 @ 8:37 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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GH, whats all this BS?
Why wont ANY Christian answer these questions:
because they don't apply to todays world..
\wrong tense...when is the last time that "God" killed a nation?
again...wrong tense..when is the last time that God put anyone to death? seems to me you should rethink the definition of ..."free will..."
and to re-answer the first question...because it is a pointless thread .. you have covered this ad nauseam ...
remember that Christians deal with the new testament, (and as imperfect as it is.. it is still comparable to yours (pl) ).....not the old....
You should be a politician! Stop sidewinding!
God kills nations, "yes" or "no".
He kills people, "yes" or "no".
Either he does or he doesnt. Okay, he either has or he hasnt. What is it?
The thread maybe pointless to you but what should be expected? Honesty or denial. At least YOU, GH, has posted and dont seem to mind dialogue. It isnt a case of covering ad nauseum because no one has the gal to reply. They are cowardly, fearful, ignorant, and worst of all not facing up to the truths of their own beliefs.
You as a Christian should know where God destroy Nations or the many "put to death" verses of the Bible.
I wont touch upon the statements you made here in respect to OT and NT God. Isnt he the same person?
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| Aug 7 @ 8:45 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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kattsmeow
Posts: 21,239
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People kill people. Just like the saying of guns don't kill people, it is the people holding them that do.
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| Aug 7 @ 8:52 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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katts,
are you saying God is a person? A "people?"
Doesnt God kill and also directs people to kill?
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| Aug 7 @ 9:16 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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Jankia
Posts: 9,092
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God kills "Nations" doesnt he? Maybe the God you claim doesnt exsist does but the God that Christains follow doesnt kill..man kills nations.
God "...puts to death..." doesnt he? No,but since you think so or you wouldnt ask this extremely lame question,so tell us who does God "put to death"
God will do anything to have control? If that were the case your nonsense in chastising Christains on here we wouldnt have to read everyday.
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| Aug 7 @ 9:26 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Maybe the God you claim doesnt exsist does but the God that Christains follow doesnt kill..man kills nations.
Jankia, I dont claim any god. Are you sure God doesnt kill nations?
No,but since you think so or you wouldnt ask this extremely lame question,so tell us who does God "put to death"
If it is a "lame" question as you put it, why does it effect you so? Are you so sure God doesnt command people to be put to death?
If that were the case your nonsense in chastising Christains on here we wouldnt have to read everyday.
So you are saying your God doesnt exist then?
[Edited on 8/7/2008 9:39 PM]
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| Aug 9 @ 9:05 PM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Any answers yet?
.... are you all still "thinking?"
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| Aug 10 @ 1:21 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,489
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If I judge you I have judged the condition and state of my mind, my heart and my spirit.
When I look in your eyes, I will say you are wary of me,
When I look at your shoulders, I will see you burdened,
On your eyes I lay my shame for my act to judge,
On your shoulders I load the guilt of my justification to not love you.
I force others to wear my sins so I might still deserve heaven in my eyes.
This is why I strive to not judge.
I am left with mercy, compassion, and love for you...
Only I can steal these gifts from both of us, for I cannot offer you what I do not have,
And should I falter I ask your forgiveness for being a thief and thank you for caring my sins.
Once I have judged you, I am the only man of the two of us in need of forgiveness. You remain innocent as when I first saw you.
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| Aug 10 @ 3:30 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,489
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The forums hold many descriptions of the wily crafty devil, to whom the church has granted power able to match God's power on earth, and outwit the all knowing God.
The idea of satan from our roots was one of a being acting in the role of an adversary under specific directions from Yahweh. The idea of the holy spirit presents in the OT as the source of prophecy or wisdom. By the time the gospel of John is written, he is referred to three time in Greek and called the advocate which means providing comfort or defending someone.
The original job for a satan was to accuse man, and it would have been understood as this into the time of Jesus. One outcome of the mission of Jesus is that the holy spirit emerges with a new task as advocate for man loaded on the original one in the OT as the source of prophecy.
Now add the idea of judgement...we can look at a very advanced concept with regard to these two caracitures, one the holy spirit distorted to be a dove, the other satan distorted to be the horned and tailed beast.
In their original roles, before we forgot our history and the church provided an alternate meaning for each, we would see a good fit with the idea of judgement as a trial. The idea of this testing is actually Egyptian.
In the trial the satan accuses man as guilty holding no innocence...the advocate for man defends man's inherent innocence using defenses like man is the image and likeness of God, man is the temple of the living God and will overcome the adversaries accusation by the ultimate old belief that light will overcome darkness.
The church has long stood more in the role of the adversaries against man declaring us stained, sinful, dirty, and unholy and killable. Then we are too look to the church and a clergy that will tell us a God died to wash away the sins of the world giving us an unearned gift, but somehow we must still earn for ourselves by following unending lists of their rules.
A christian might go a lifetime without ever seeing the church act as his advocate, a role we might assume it would have since it says it acts in the name of God. The burial rites of the churches may be the closest we get to seeing this advocacy, for after a lifetime of declaring us all sinners, they sprinkle us with water, incense, and prayer for a good trip b fore we are lowered in the ground and someone else throws dirt in our face.
I have participated in last rituals over 70 times in my youth, this moment of church advocacy, when the accusations ceased, it stood out over and above the sadness of the survivors.
Often times on the threads I listen and notice the christian acting in a role of the accusing adversary declaring when we are wrong and lost. It is said to be done in concern for our souls...but my spirit cannot choose to follow them. I want to offer my compassion and love...I will advocate for all on here...the book says by our love for one another we will be known.
The churches role will be restored when it abandons its adversarial role against its members, and begins to act as the advocate of the people they were told by Jesus to serve. It will finally serve to teach man how to find the kingdom of God within each man by teaching us how to not judge one another, how to forgive to earn forgiveness for our failures, and by these we will finally love God and each other as we love ourselves. As Jesus said...it is all that is required.
Belief in the myths will fall away as the requirement to be a christian...by our love for God and one another we will finally be or not be christian.
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| Aug 10 @ 8:34 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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The churches role will be restored when it abandons its adversarial role against its members, and begins to act as the advocate of the people they were told by Jesus to serve. It will finally serve to teach man how to find the kingdom of God within each man by teaching us how to not judge one another, how to forgive to earn forgiveness for our failures, and by these we will finally love God and each other as we love ourselves. As Jesus said...it is all that is required.
Belief in the myths will fall away as the requirement to be a christian...by our love for God and one another we will finally be or not be christian. Well put uncrazy!
Someday people will take this to heart.
Your post reminded me of this song:
Imagine - John Lennon
IMAGINE by John Lennon
Imagine there's no heaven
Its easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Ah....
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You....
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll joins us
and the world will live as one.
John was able to convey all of Jesus' teachings and NT messages in one song of 3 min. 55 sec. duration.
Imagine that!
Peace
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| Aug 10 @ 9:44 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,131
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Matthew 6: 9--"This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name, 10--Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11--Give us today our daily bread. 12--Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13--And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.' "
I don't recall anything even close to these words in John Lennon's song.
While Imagine in my opinion is one of the best songs ever recorded, God is noticeably absent from John Lennon's excellent lyrics.
John Lennon did not come anywhere close to conveying all of John the Disciple's teachings. 
Don't just Imagine that. Examine that.
Can you see any visible hint of praise given in the song?
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| Aug 10 @ 9:47 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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The basis of Jesus' teachings is loving-kindness.
That's it and that's all that's needed....love and compassion for all living beings.
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| Aug 10 @ 10:19 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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Deleted post!
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| Aug 10 @ 10:37 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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SOC,
As uncrazy has pointed out many times, Jesus told us what the only requirement is.
Do you know what Jesus said was the "only" requirement, or has your dogma become more important to you than Jesus' words?
As for John's lyrics, where does John say there is no "god" or "higher power"?
Lets take some lines and analyze them:
Imagine there's no heaven - Jesus was Jewish and would have known what heaven was in the eyes of the Jews. But the first thing he instructed us to do was "find the kingdom of the father". Later he tells us that the kingdom can be found within us. Jesus used the word "heaven" because it was the closest thing in Jewish beliefs to the kingdom Jesus preached. So there is no heaven in Jesus' teachings. The kingdom of the father is what Jesus taught.
No hell below us - Jesus never speaks of a hell but a physical place on earth where the bodies of executed Roman prisoners were burned.
Imagine all the people living for today - Did Jesus not teach this?
Imagine there's no countries - Jesus believed that the world (mankind) was "one" with him and the father. Jesus never preached support of mankind separated by politics.
Nothing to kill or die for - Jesus taught non-violence and to turn your cheek.
And no religion too - Jesus never supported religion. He spoke against it. Even in Revalation the seven churches were criticized for their false teachings.
Imagine all the people living life in peace - How does this conflict with Jesus' teachings?
I hope some day you'll join us - How many times did Jesus make this plea?
And the world will live as one - This was Jesus main message to mankind.
Imagine no possessions - Didn't Jesus ask us to sell all our possessions and follow him?
I wonder if you can - Doesn't the NT show how hard this can be?
No need for greed or hunger - How many times did Jesus convey this message?
A brotherhood of man - Didn't Jesus teach the "brotherhood of man"?
Sharing all the world - Aren't we taught that we share the world?
Now where does John's lyrics fall short of Jesus' teachings?
John basically did what many of us do. He deleted all the christian dogma BS and listed the important things that Jesus and other masters have taught for thousands of years.
You are locked in your delusional dogma box and refuse to see what Jesus' message to the world is. As I've said before, you consider your man made dogma more important that the teachings of Jesus. You consider the Roman State Religion's dogma more important than the man it wound its myths around.
Peace
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| Aug 10 @ 10:42 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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Awesome, Sail!
I like this on too by Nickelback
If Everyone Cared lyrics
From underneath the trees, we watch the sky
Confusing stars for satellites
I never dreamed that you'd be mine
But here we are, we're here tonight
Singing Amen, I, I'm alive
Singing Amen, I, I'm alive
[Chorus:]
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died
And I'm singing
Amen I, Amen I, I'm alive
Amen I, Amen I, Amen I, I'm alive
And in the air the fireflies
Our only light in paradise
We'll show the world they were wrong
And teach them all to sing along
Singing Amen, I, I'm alive
Singing Amen, I, I'm alive
(I'm alive)
[Chorus x2]
And as we lie beneath the stars
We realize how small we are
If they could love like you and me
Imagine what the world could be
If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died
When nobody died...
[Chorus]
We'd see the day, we'd see the day
When nobody died
We'd see the day, we'd see the day
When nobody died
We'd see the day when nobody died
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| Aug 10 @ 11:10 AM |
THE TRUTH OF GOD |
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sail_dancer
Posts: 8,495
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If everyone cared and nobody cried
If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died
When nobody died... Nice! Very nice! 
Peace
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