| Aug 15 @ 10:38 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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LanceVarden7
Posts: 830
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When I asked, "Where are the 'Baby Christians'" There was a mix of responses.
Lance, that is below you my friend. Why would you say that? For some time now, bev has been explaining that she treats people the way she does because of the "Baby Christians" who need her. It is perfectly reasonable to ask who she is talking about. It was a rhetorical question.
hammertime, this second last post of yours here was an out-and-out attack---against Bev...who is the most recent outlet for your hostile attitude. I will agree that Hammer is pretty brazen, but you have to ask why? What made him that way. People like bev create people like Hammer. Well meaning Christians who are to shy, or kind-hearted to tell people like bev that she is out of line, help to perpetuate the problem.
For several years I considered myself to be a baby-Christian. And I know many people who either have been, or still are baby-Christians. Yes, yes, of course no one knows it all, and so, in some regard we are all learning and therefore, in a sense, "Baby Christians"
That is not the point. It is a distraction from the point. It side-steps the real issue and white washes the real problem. The problem is bev's behavior and her attitude toward other people here. anyone who complains about it, gets labeled as a "false Christian" Some will have the courage to speak up anyway, and some will not.
It is a great thing when someone seeks Christian mentoring frome someone else. I do it often, from Christian people I respect. I am very flattered when someone seeks it from me. Even bev does it. She constantly trys to vindicate herself by referring to her pastor and inviting people to call upon her, so even bev seeks the mentoring from someone else.
This is different.
Here is the kicker that bev is avoiding. A person has to seek out that mentoring. You can't wallow in and come off as the expert and try to force it on someone else. It doesn't work. It only tends to alieanate the people you are trying to force it on. Anyone knows that. It is simple human nature.
I don't think that bev is so stupid that she doesn't understand that. I myself, was an anti-christian for many years because of people like bev. In college I met a friend who was sincere in his religion and it changed my thinking.
Really, think of Hammer. If he ever did decide to change his views and become a Christian, does ANYONE here think it will be because of bev and the things she is posted here? REALLY? Of course not! If anyone is ever in a position where they could reach out ot him, it will be in spite of the damage that bev is doing here and now.
What is shameful is that the people who despise people like Hammer are the very people who helped influence him to feel the way he does.
The euphimism of "I am just planting seeds" is a lie! A very bad one. They are poisoning the soil so that if anyone ever does try to plant seeds, they will have a very hard time growing.
The euphimism of "I am looking out for the Baby Christians" is a lie! It has nothing to do with helping anyone else and everyting to do with trying to make yourself look important, or the expert that is divinely appointed to straighten other people out. When someone says "yes, I am hard on you guys, but I doing God's work" they are lying. They are not authorized in anyway shape or form to "be hard" on anyone. They are doing it of themselves, and not of God.
The sad truth is that, the religion will attract a certain amount of people from non-authority segment. People who have never been in authority over anything, and because of their weak character or intellect, never will be in charge of anything.
Some weak souls that have never had a chance to be boss in another venue view religion as an opportunity. Ding! Ding! Ding! Suddenly they have a chance to be God's foreman. No one can prove that God doesn't speak to them. God is the highest authority so they suddenly have a blank check to bully other people, and do it claiming the highest of authorities. There is a word for that. It is called blashphemy. In the old days, they stoned people like that.
Hmmm, sail, I called ONE person a false Christian and he has since proven that to everyone. Now, baby Christians, that is a different story, they are still Christians. Proven to everyone? Who? Should we poll "everyone" to see if you are right? When you pronounce judgement like that on someone else you are taking alot on yourself. When you come back with "I don't care about everyone" remember you were the one who said it. When you are busily typing a reply about how this post was an attack, remember your "false Christain" comment.
That is about it. I am sure there will be a rebuttal, but I think everyone who reads it already has a pretty good handle on what is going on. If I reply, it will probably be to just quote this post.
As Gump said, "That's all I got to say about that"
Happy trails, folks.
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| Aug 15 @ 10:45 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Great post Lance 
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| Aug 15 @ 10:50 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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Loreli
Posts: 20,161
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I agree Lance....
I read through parts in here, but it is same old same old, no matter the subject.
It has lost it's appeal and it's fun.
Many people would like to participate in R and S, but the cramming and putdowns turn them off. 
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| Aug 15 @ 10:57 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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lance is particularly correct and a fine example of "decent" Christian debate is going on between Uncrazy, sail and Angel in two threads.
Why is this? Because it isnt a contest. It isnt about "converting" but debating points.
But, in truth, I believe, the people he debate so wildly is becaue it IS a dating website.
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| Aug 15 @ 11:31 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Lance
Awesome post!!!!!
I can tell you have a powerful spirit. Indomitable and with integrity.
But let me clarify a few things. Bev is an example. While we do get personal in here, she reflects a very large group of insane people. Her problem, the problem with the class of holier-than-thou Christians goes back many centuries. This is a very long running disease that has attached itself to what is called faith. A virus of faith that is so interwoven into it that its overlooked. Bev types didn't create me. I created me for having clarity of thought to see what these types of people are doing and what they really are about. They're out and out liars and delusional (untruths they believe are true). In another time in history, I would have been tortured and burned at the stake. I would probably be smarter and join an underground as many freethinkers have and communicate in cypher.
You hit the nail on the head when you said:
The sad truth is that, the religion will attract a certain amount of people from non-authority segment. People who have never been in authority over anything, and because of their weak character or intellect, never will be in charge of anything. This is true because these sorts of folks can say God directly talks to them as many have. The danger is if they do get some grasp on power, they become people like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, Ted Haggerd and lead the weak into a path of self-destruction. Another group are those who are misfits in society and many who suffer mental illnesses. They easily blend in because the fanatical religious behaviors religion promotes.
The problem with faith is the curse that comes along with it. The only way to remove the curse is not to give deference to it anymore. Expose their lies, falsehoods, bigotry and hate. Some will get pissed off because for too long they are used to believing anything to do with religion is off limits to criticism and scrutiny. Not anymore. There is no reason for anyone who represents any faith to condemn all other faiths and religions and say they will suffer eternal torment if they don't buy their brand of mental detergent. We mostly see this in the Children of Abraham. Unfortunately Christianity is cursed in this way. There is evidence that shows Christianity might have been very different if certain early sects weren't condemned as heretics. People like Lance give hope.
[Edited on 8/15/2008 11:39 AM]
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| Aug 15 @ 11:44 AM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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Another great post, hammer
Thankfully with the new world communication, religion can be questioned. Fakers, hawkers, snake oil charmers and anyone else can be scrutinised. Their powers are wanning and will eventually go.
Thank God!!!! 
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| Aug 15 @ 12:09 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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Loreli
Posts: 20,161
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Which threads are those, Knotty?
THAT is something I like to read.... 
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| Aug 15 @ 12:12 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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The two below this one.
Exodus - neat one and Bible Authenticity.
When people actually start debating on serious topics, they are left alone to do so. It is when the Holier than thous start up, hell lets loose, and rightly so 
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| Aug 15 @ 5:07 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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"Baby Christians" don't come to a dating site to learn about their faith. That is what their churches and pastors are for.
And as far as "planting seeds", there is not one thing anyone types here that is going to change what path a person walks.
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| Aug 15 @ 5:11 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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sealacamp
Posts: 3,136
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What made him that way
Perhaps you are overlooking the obvious. It is his choice and he, as well as all the rest of us, have personal responsibility for our actions. There is no blame that allows such an attitude, no scapegoat as it were. No it is a matter of his choice. That is where the responsibility lies despite any other notions that may intrude themselves into your thoughts.
A person has to seek out that mentoring.
I can't agree with this and it flies in the face of real wisdom. Truly wise people learn from everything whether it is sought out or not. This truth is revealed to all here.
Instruct the wise,
and they will be even wiser.
Teach the righteous,
and they will learn even more.
S
[Edited on 8/15/2008 5:17 PM]
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| Aug 15 @ 5:31 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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Seal
I have already posted my reasons. I make my own choices. I have not allowed others to indoctrinate me but only to teach me. As we all know, Christianity, for many centuries, was not about choice unless you consider it a choice to follow Jesus or be tortured and murdered. Yes, I guess that is a choice. How many have actually said to their oppressors, "I will not follow your garbage faith, I already have a faith" only to be slaughtered on the spot. Many have and many did not. History will not disappear as you might wish it did.
However, the point Lance was making was that psychopath Christians, or rather psychopaths who call themselves Christians go around condemning other people's faiths and religions including other Christians they do not approve of would cause a reaction. In this sense one can say they created Christians like Lance who rightfully speak up and say shut up and those like me who expose their lies, delusions and insanity. Isn't it time to get out of the dark ages already?
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| Aug 15 @ 5:50 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,489
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Today, the man in the store next to mine had his 6 year old son working with him.
I noticed it strange to see a little boy carrying an adults fears.
When will we stop loading our fears onto our children? It will be a loving act.
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| Aug 15 @ 5:54 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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My child has no fear indoctrinated into him.
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| Aug 15 @ 6:01 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,489
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BandTMom,
Mine are little older, I try now to correct what I told them as truth earlier that I have found to be not so.
I can then be true to who I have become that way, compassionate and loving to them.
Graban sings a song from Circ d Soliel that offers the thought...
Someone who I became caught me when I let go of my fears and worries.
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| Aug 15 @ 6:28 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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Unfortunately my older one was indoctrinated and won't listen to anything else. But I know if I show love and compassion in my life, he will realize it too.
My younger one is being brought up in loving-kindness and has been exposed to both Christianity and Buddhism. We he gets older, I will encourage him to study as many religions as he wishes.
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| Aug 15 @ 7:10 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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uncrazy
Posts: 1,489
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BandtMom,
By example is the very best way to teach...if I live to show judgements and distaste for others, my children will learn it, if I show love and compassion they will learn that.
A idea that has benefited me well is the notion that my judgement of others is nothing more than me justifying my not loving them as I find them.
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| Aug 15 @ 7:51 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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16knots
Posts: 3,627
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This truth is revealed to all here.
Instruct the wise,
and they will be even wiser.
Teach the righteous,
and they will learn even more.
Wise are never instructed on being wise but they alone seek the answers for themselves. Wisdom arises from awareness of the focus they are on if they are open in awareness.
We see the problems here in the threads when answers in truth are quite clear yet people can and will ignore the truths despite the attempts of others to lead to the truths.
They are simply not aware of greater aspects of their spirituality, yet.
No one can be righteous because it is only their truth and their truth alone. Their reality of what they become aware of in realization. The aspect of this fact is that someone who is aware of greater things spiritually can not teach it to someone else. That person must seek their path until they alone become aware.
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| Aug 15 @ 8:09 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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hammertime
Posts: 14,071
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It seems very difficult for religions to get this idea of love and compassion across to their followers. Certainly, the "by example" thing doesn't work very well because so many don't practice what they preach. The "by example" is the ONLY way to teach these lessons. Talking and not walking never works. This is the lesson of John 14:6 when Jesus said, he was the way, the truth, the light. He was setting the example. Why so many Christians don't do this is a mystery. When you look at history, the example being set is bigotry, hate, violence and murder. How can anyone use that as an example?
We can learn more about love and compassion from animals than we can from most Christians or rather those who call themselves Christians. Love and compassion are universal truths that are even beyond our species. No religion, no ideology, no philosophy has a monopoly on this. That means Jesus is not the only way. I would expect any wise man to recognize another.
Today I went to an exotic bird shop. There were parakeets, African Greys, Macaws, Cockatoos, parrots all outside their cages all making a hell of a lot of noise but all huddling together, preening and grooming each other. You see their behavior is very human-like. Some want to be alone, others causing a stir, most sharing gestures of kindness and affection with one another. I approached a few of the bigger birds and I truly felt their emotional connection. Perhaps we ought to start emulating these animals. Predatory behavior is learned behavior. A wolf raised with a sheep will get along. A tiger and a deer will get along if raised together. All true if they're fed which proves if needs are met, there is peace.
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| Aug 15 @ 8:15 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it
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BandTMom
Posts: 28,234
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| Aug 15 @ 8:25 PM |
Here is the real problem - As I see it |
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ServantOfChrist2
Posts: 4,131
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So Hammertime, why are you always ragging on me then??
You've described PRECISELY what I've been doing all these years both in the community and at the school where I work!
Teaching children how to read is only secondary. My REAL occupation, (the job that occupies my daytime), is to give children, (and adults), a consistent example of good behavior.
My behaviour reflects Christ's teachings, but it's not me who talks about any of that stuff.
I leave that for those better qualified.
I pray for my food in the lunchroom.
I just provide an example of a good man. (Who happens to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.)
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